I am a fashion designer and a while back had a logo designed which features a drawing of a black woman with an afro (I'm white). I love it and think it's beautiful, but recently have been questioning whether or not it's ok that I use this image for my business. I'd really like to hear honest opinions from people of all races (but especially black women) on this. Is it cultural appropriation? Offensive?
Maybe being one of those heterosexual white males automatically invalidates anything I have to say on this topic, but I am frankly not crazy about this whole "cultural appropriation" concept. If you examine the phrase "cultural appropriation", you'd conclude it had something to do with taking something from another culture without its permission. Appropriation does mean "taking something without permission" after all. Unfortunately that very idea makes it sound like cultural items are necessarily copyrighted to their cultures of origin, as if those cultures weren't in turn borrowing or influenced by others. And let's face, every culture has borrowed from others throughout the existence of humanity. We Anglo-Saxons borrowed elements of our current culture from the Greco-Romans, who in turn borrowed from the Egyptians, who in turned borrowed from the Nubians, and so on... And then what about borrowing from cultures that aren't around anymore? Most African-Americans are descended from all sorts of West and Central African cultures, so some might accuse them of "cultural appropriation" if they showed interest in ancient Egyptian and Nubian cultures. And for my part, I do get irritated at how some people treat "Nubian" as synonymous with any Black African ancestry rather than a specific region in Sudan (e.g. the phrase "Nubian Queen"). On the other hand, most of the people living in Egypt and Sudan today have assimilated so much ancestry and cultural influences from Greco-Roman and Islamic sources, even to the point of identifying as Arabs rather than Africans themselves, that they don't have much stronger ties to the indigenous civilizations than many Latin Americans have to the Aztecs, Maya, or Inca. On the other hand, most of those Northeast Africans who look closer to ancient Egyptian and Nubian peoples have their own native cultural identities, so even a Somali dressed as Ramses II or a Nuer as Taharqa could be construed as "appropriators". So in short, it's a messy issue as far as I am concerned. That said, I don't know if most black women would complain about a white person wearing an image of a black woman on their shirt. As an artist, I draw Black African ladies all the time, and while I do occasionally get flack from "social justice warrior" trolls who hate straight white men on principle, the majority of black women and men have been far more supportive of my art.
Depends what your intentions are. If you have a genuine affection for the culture it shouldn't be a problem but you have to show that affection also
This kind of Afro-themed design was hip in the 1970s and it may be making a comeback. Clint Eastwood was still an actor and many African American actors had big hair in the '70s, which I consider to be the coolest hair style blacks invented. [video=youtube;RSAyz5c3JmM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSAyz5c3JmM[/video]
Who even practices Ancient Egyptian religion anymore? Ankhs arent that sacred to people today-if they are, not to many people.
Perhaps cultural appropriation is the wrong phrase...but I'm concerned that this would be considered commodifying black culture, and that it might be inappropriate because it isn't my own culture. Does that make sense?
The Ankh does not belong in any way shape or form to black people. Cleopatra wore an ankh and she was WHITE. Completely effing WHITE. Hell yopu have a stu;pid black group pretending to be the real Jews of the bible. I think they are just loons I dont whine about cultural appropriation.
I won't be able to tell if it's offensive without seeing what it looks like and knowing how it will be used. As far as cultural appropriation goes, it is definitely that especially if the user of the image can't grow Afro-grade hair. Are you able to show us the design by chance?
Ankh is also called tau cross, as it's derived from the letter tau in the Greek Alphabet. Are we now going to claim that the Greeks were black?
It would be commodifying black culture but whether it's offensive varies wildly from person to person. Some could care less, others would hate it, the rest in between.
The Ankh is that, the tau is something else and yes, the ancient greeks were black also but Km.t predates greek philosophy by thousands of years so does the Ankh.
This is an unfinished version. It's inspired by the artwork of Alfons Mucha and disco-era Diana Ross, two of my biggest design influences.
You know, I for one don't think the ancient Greeks were predominantly pale like Nordic Europeans, but I imagine them as mostly Mediterranean tan people like people in Turkey or certain North African countries (e.g. Tunisia or Morocco). They probably did have African immigrants in their midst since international trade was a big thing in Mediterranean antiquity (in fact there were some prominent Nubian characters like Memnon and Andromeda in Greek mythology a), but most ancient images I have seen of native Greeks show non-African appearances. So no, I don't think classical Greece was predominantly Black African.
dont like the term "black african" but that aside there was no need to mention nordics. the ancient greeks were intimate with km.t as you acknowledge and the big powers of the med have always been north afrikans up until the crucifixion of Israel then it changed and with it the demographic. images only portray the eye of the beholder and as we know, Afrikans have the most diverse features and genetics on the planet because this is where the earth rotates around. "black" can mean a myriad of things and that alone can cause conjecture, it is what it means to the individual that counts.
Wait, so you're willing to declare ancient Greeks "black", but don't like the label "Black African"? Keep in mind I'm using that phrase to designate any African people with darker pigmentation, not necessarily the West Africans whom everyone equates with "Negroid" (or "Congoid" or whatever). As for ancient Greek depictions of themselves, let me provide a couple of paintings (since the color has worn off most of the sculptures). Obviously they have darker skin and hair than Nordics, and even the palest characters in the first image have yellow undertones. In other words, not much "whiter" than Kim Kardashian (who's of Armenian heritage). I still wouldn't call them Black African though. And then you have those ancient Greek images depicting the Egyptians of their time period. I trust you're familiar with multiple Greek writers describing Egyptians as black-colored and woolly-haired along with Nubians (odd descriptors to designate difference if the Greeks themselves were "black" as you imply), but they've also provided us with images of Egyptians that give them distinct facial features and skin color (when using polychromatic media) from themselves. (The vase in the last image juxtaposes a portrait of Hercules against an African identified as the mythical Egyptian king Busiris) Of course Africans have varied facial features and skin colors, in keeping with their genetic diversity, but it does seem the Greeks didn't consider themselves predominantly related to the Egyptians as you seem to imply.
The image alone is not offensive at all. However, using the image to sell products/services to black women would be. The image of the black woman you drew has no color.
As a white male I always like afros and am glad to see them coming back into style, why not use it some may have forgotten or never been exposed to it and might decide they like it. You should cater to all possible customers there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. - - - Updated - - - Did you know that a white woman can also have an afro, you must not have been around in the 60's and 70's.
This is why I asked how the image would be used. When I'm looking for products/services, I'm not thinking about white women and their hair types or needs because I'm thinking about mine. If this is the image, especially on hair products, I know to move on the next one. The image isn't offensive but it lets me know that the product/service isn't targeted to me. If I was part of the target group, I wouldn't necessarily be offended, but I wouldn't support it either. That's just me though.
of course it all depends on the timeline, the aryan invasions would lead to a diluting of ancient cultures. if posting a few pictures was conclusive why not post ones of so- called black greeks like this; if quoting historians why not quote from the appropriate dates rather than from 400bce when greece had already began incursions in the opposite direction into afrika? Taking into account my original comment which was ancient greeks were black...maybe ishould have rephrased that, not greeks but minoans. by the time it was greece, the aryans had already began the push back, whereby even Aegypt became white eventually (cue pics of white pharaoh) . Minoan, or cretan culture is almost exclusively Afrikan and to think that these two nations didnt share a genetic bond as well as cultural is a big leap of faith on your part. Aside from Afrikan influence its also recognized that the Phoenicians had a major impact on Minoan culture also. Then there are the greek myths about AEgyptus fathering the greeks and marriages between the two nations abound. Myths can be interpreted as forgotten history but yes, myths none the less.
Or Will Smith who has kinky hair, as do your pics. Kim has straight hair. Why not see Beyonce instead of Kim?
