Do these signs work, or are they just a feel good idea. In my state, they have no force of law. (Some states they have force of law) If you are caught, you can be asked to leave. If you dont leave, you could be charged with trespassing. When traveling around the state on our bikes, we might stop for gas or whatever and find that there is a sign posted on the door. Now we either go in or go back to the bike and unarm our selves, or go to another place. Well, you know what, we will only be in there for a few minutes and no one will ever know. So how many of these businesses with signs see numerous legal concealed carriers in and out every day and they never know it? In my mind, that sign is not going to stop someone from breaking the law. It is already a crime to commit robbery or murder (but it still happens) so is a No Firearms sign going to stop someone from committing a robbery in one of these places? Are they going to worry about a trespassing charge if they have already decided to commit a robbery. What are you thoughts?
Well, like you said, it won't stop a criminal, just ask Adam Lanza. On the other hand, if it does prevent a law-abiding citizen from entering, and a shootout does take place, then there won't be anyone there to put down the gunman. Of course, you can always wait for the cops to show up and hope for the best.
That's a good question. If it's private property, the owner should be able to set the rules. But how exactly should the government deal with people who do not follow those rules? The owners right to their property doesn't automatically translate into the government grabbing and punishing people. Should a rule breaker, for example someone who brings a gun onto the property, get a warning before the government can come in? Of course, no sign is going to stop someone if they were planning on committing a serious crime. The only way I could see a "Gun Free Zone" preventing any gun crime is if the would-be perpetrator did not plan to use his gun before he entered the zone. I mean, maybe he was just walking along, in "the zone", and all of a sudden saw someone carrying a huge bag of money. Or maybe got into a heated conflict and confrontation with someone. Though neither of these seem particularly likely.
In my State, such signs are legally meaningless, though you can be asked to leave or be charged with trespassing. Then again, you can be asked to leave or be charged with trespassing for the color of your shirt.
I am not sure what you mean by work. No one believes that have a no firearms policy will stop a person who wants to shoot other people alone. Systems that stop people from bringing in guns like security check points etc also can't be completely foolproof. The sign is not meant to stop anyone. The policy creates an environment were gunfire can be minimized in certain ways. For example. An employer does not allow guns on the job. If an employee does bring a gun and is caught they can be fired. So most employees who are smart would not bring their guns into work. So that eliminates the chance for accidental gun shots or heat of the moment events that bring a gun into play. I don't think gun free zones are meant to stop everything and as someone who thinks about that a lot do to my position I understand the other side of the argument. But this is not nearly the right question. Now the other thing they do is allow for people to keep the open carry guys out of the building, be it a doctor's office or a Wal-mart. I find I don't trust most of the Yahoos that open carry, especially long guns these days. (funny there was a time I didn't think much of it seeing a rifle in public I normally would assess the person for a second and if he looked normal I would ignore him and the occasional her) Today most of the guys I see doing it are (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s who have a complex of some kind. They want to be intimidating but most of the time they look like children playing dress up. But here is the thing, a clown shouldering a rifle in Target may be harmless but what should I do if he shifts it into a position where it is possible to fire the weapon. Should I or someone else fire first? Do I wait until he fires a round for him to be a threat? What happens to me if I fire at him and the guy in the next aisle comes over and sees the gun in my hand and him on the ground. Does he take me out? See the sign is to create a standard and while it won't stop concealed carries, except for those who think they are concealed (it is funny the way some people carry their weapons) it creates a different environment. For me I would rather people conceal and to get a license to do that take and intense firearms safety course. Also there should be draconian penalties for accidentally firing a weapon in public or mistakenly shooting someone because you think they were a threat when a reasonable person would not. Then those who only feel safe with a gun can carry and those who feel unsafe with a gun will know that there is an added level of protection.
Did you know it's illegal in all Middle Eastern countries to be a part of a group like ISIS ? There are laws against attempting to overthrow the government via Holy War in order to bring back the Caliphate. I can't believe the boys in ISIS are breaking the law !
Indiana: Your property is to be clearly marked with obvious NO Trespassing signs. It makes no difference if you are armed or not. The only exception to this rule is when in pursuit of wounded game. It is illegal to block a blood trail. State laws says you can carry the firearm you wounded the animal with and a high powered sidearm. Otherwise, if you're not allowed on the property, guns are the least of the issue. I don't think I've ever seen a sign down here, on private property that prohibited firearms. I think that is left up to the host, and to inform his guests.
OK, Iowa is kind of that way too. I was kind of leaning towards businesses (convenience stores, gas stations, deli's and the like) with "No Firearms" signs on their doors.
"No Firearms" signs carry no meaning to a CHL holder. They have to give us written notice referencing the concealed carry law with exact wording or tell us verbally that no guns are allowed. The signs are only valid for openly carried long arms in TX as open carry for handguns is still illegal. Some states require you to ask for permission to carry a gun before entering a private residence, but not in TX. I'm about to eat dinner at a friend's house and I'll leave my gun in the car for him. He's not anti-gun, but he is not a gun person. They make him think about his time as a gunner on B-29s in WWII and Korea and I don't want to upset him.
With the possible exception of a bar (guns and alcohol - very good mix) I would think such a sign on a business would be the stupidest thing to do. Here comes Elmer with his gun, gonna rob that 7-11. Dam !! They have a no guns policy ! Grumble....Grumble....gotta drive on and find another. Same goes for a private residence, doesn't such a sign just attract robbers???? In Alabama you have to ask someone to leave your property (or property you are in charge of) if you don't want their gun there. If they do not leave they can be arrested for trespassing, NOT a firearm violating (unless of course they are carrying illegally already.)
Ya a good friend married an Iraqi vet. They both shoot be she has to watch herself. Sometimes she says he is up in the middle of the night peering out the window saying strange stuff....still asleep. The Dr's told her DO NOT try and wake him, just be sure the guns are put away before bed.......
I remember a story I read a long time ago, it was about this couple that made mannequins that looked like real children, in order to get people to stop speeding through residental areas. The cops picked up on this and made cop mannequins as well. It didn't matter if they were real or not, just the thought of the enforcement was there. It's conditioning. It doesn't matter if it's going to happen or not, just the thought of it will deter someone. Same thing with these signs, just enforce them, and people will respect them. That being said, a little bit on the privacy intrusive side. But if it's the rules of the place, it's the rules of the place. Respect the law, and people will respect each other as well.
My friend was in a good mood tonight. We were telling him about our son in the military and he started telling us about strafing Russian bombers and trying to shoot Migs as they went by. He said he could write his name with his twin .50s. I don't know how much is true, but it was good to see him in a good mood. I hope your friend's husband gets over his PTSD and sleepwalking. That sounds like it could be a bad combination.
they make people keep their guns hidden at the very lease which does create peace of mind.... I think concealed carry should be the default and respectful way to carry, you should not need a license for cc
The usage of such signs presents no deterrence effect on those that are willing to use firearms in a violent and illegal manner. It is no different than trying to claim signs warning against jaywalking will inhibit bank robberies.
That varies by State. For example, in NC, a "No Firearms" sign on a business is legally binding, though I'm unclear if a 2"x2" "sign", barely readable on the bottom of the door counts. Yet other states require specific language posted on a sign of a certain size to be legally meaningful. Of course, I think it's stupid. The people who would obey such signs are the very ones that might just mitigate an armed criminal intent on causing chaos, who others have properly noted, would ignore such a sign. If your intent is murder, the sign is not going to stop you.
Absolutely. Any time I carry my gun outside of TX, I study up on the laws of that state. I look at where I cannot carry, how to handle being stopped by the police, castle doctrine status, use of force laws, etc....
I appreciate these "no firearms" signs. They tell me where my money is not welcome. Here in Las Vegas, we have occasional meet and greet gatherings for our local web forum members. If we're allowed to OC there, they get our endorsement, and they realize that they'll never need to hire a security guard.
There's an android app for that. For example, here in Florida, I can't carry in a bar. In NC, I can, but only if I'm not drinking. Every time I travel, I go through all the updates. Last I checked my FL CCW was good up until the VA/DC border, but I'm not going to count on "last I checked", I'm going to update it and make sure I know the current rules. One could, and I would, argue that the "full faith and credit clause" requires ALL states to honor my FL CCW, but that has not yet been the position of any Court. I own an AR-15, a pretty high end one with some kick-ass optics. Merely possessing such a thing in NY would make me a felon.
No. They dont work for criminals...and they dont work for otherwise law abiding people who simply disagree with the stupid unconstitutional "law". As a LEO I can legally take a firearm just about anywhere I want. Ive concealed carried in schools and no one knows. Its DUMB that these restaurants and theaters dont trust adults with CCWs when the state government does.
