What the biggest employment problem in the economy?

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Anders Hoveland, Mar 4, 2015.

?

Which of these do you think is the biggest problem in the economy?

  1. Not enough of the good types of jobs

    3 vote(s)
    8.1%
  2. Wages for the jobs that already exist are too low

    4 vote(s)
    10.8%
  3. Costs of living are too high

    4 vote(s)
    10.8%
  4. All three of these things are big problems

    26 vote(s)
    70.3%
  1. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,044
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Many people are struggling to afford basic things like housing and medical costs, but what do you think is the main issue in the economy?
    Is it that there are not enough of the "good" types of jobs to go around, or is there nothing wrong with the jobs struggling people already have, but it is just that the wages are too low?
    Or do people have enough money, but it is just that other important things they need are too expensive? Or maybe do you think all three of these things should be addressed?


    Another element here, housing costs may be cheaper in one region of the country, but there might not be much job opportunity there. So depending on where people live, there may be different issues.
    Another place may have all sorts of job opportunities but most people can barely afford to live there, or they face dreadfully long commuting distances to get to work everyday.
     
  2. Woolley

    Woolley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2014
    Messages:
    4,134
    Likes Received:
    962
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wages are too low to create enough demand to create jobs for those who are unemployed. Demand must come from somewhere. If the private sector both domestically and abroad cannot generate enough, the government must step in. Simple economics folks. If you give people enough income, they will spend it. If you let a few have all the income, they will not spend enough to keep us going. We could just tax the daylights out of anyone in the 1% and redistribute it via jobs or tax breaks but I don't think it would be enough to matter really. We need big money, really big money. I say, spend another 1-2 trillion a year for next 10 years on infrastructure, research, etc. Forget how its funded, we can make money anytime we want to make it.
     
  3. jackson33

    jackson33 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,445
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Maybe uncertainty, should be mentioned. Start up business or expansion has always played a roll in employment and both are near all time lows, proportionate to population, called the "labor participation rate".
     
  4. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    8,968
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    48
    None of the above.

    The real problem is many Americans feel entitled to their way of life, and are unwilling to work harder to maintain it. For example a guy losing his job at the car plant because for instance its outsourced or a robot takes his place. this guy still speaks the native language, has family and friends (connections), and some skills but instead of trying to use those tools to reinvent himself he will simply continue trying to get a car plant job, and complain if he does not. At the same time an immigrant comes to this country with no language, no connections and works his ass off to make something of himself. The immigrant in 10 years will be far ahead of the typical entitled American worker. Do not get me started on college grads, these young self centred pups have an even bigger entitlement syndrom.
     
  5. Xavasia

    Xavasia New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I couldn't agree more. However the entitlement syndrome extends far beyond the examples you have outlined. An entire segment of the population has been raised to believe that they are entitled to whatever they want regardless of the effort they (fail to) expend in earning said wants. Until there is a systematic change in how many in America view themselves, things will never change. We will continue to see an ever expanding group of individuals who shirk any and all forms of personal accountability and believe everything is always someone elses fault, someone elses responsibility.
     
  6. Micketto

    Micketto New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    12,249
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't see the cost of hiring on that list.
     
  7. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,044
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You can't make money appear out of nowhere, there's no free lunch. There's only more efficient ways to utilize the resources already on hand.
    I think that's a really bad idea, to borrow all that money. It will have to be repaid with interest (and right now interest rates are being held down artificially low, which cannot continue for long).
    It might even contribute to more inequality (just where do you think all that interest is going to go to? who is it lending all this money?).


    Why do Americans have to work harder to maintain it? Is it because, after all the Free Trade agreements, they have to compete with low wage workers overseas?
    Or is it because they have to compete with immigrants willing to work for less?
     
  8. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Messages:
    16,728
    Likes Received:
    207
    Trophy Points:
    63



    You can make value appear with very little or no resource and sell that value for money. The more you do that, the more people will want to be a part of your solutions, they'll want to invest their time and resources in growing your solutions.

    People pay money if you solve their problems. The one thing this world is not short of, is problems. What we're short of, is people willing to own problems and develop solutions.




     
  9. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,791
    Likes Received:
    798
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Main issue with the economy is that ruling class does not allow people to work less. It forces everyone to work full time in order to have health insurance. Employer forces everyone to work 40 hours because government force them to provide health insurance.
     
  10. SMDBill

    SMDBill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,715
    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Income across the board is not growing along with corporate profits, meaning eventually there will be too little money in the economy to support those companies, causing further cuts to manpower, benefits and wages in a downward spiral. When the buying power of a nation is stagnant or declines, it cannot support economic growth.
     
  11. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Messages:
    16,728
    Likes Received:
    207
    Trophy Points:
    63



    Not everyone across the board, owns stock in those corporations.




     
  12. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,044
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think the reason for this was that more people were added to the economy (immigration), creating a surplus of labor. This drove down wages and increased corporate profits.


    Unfortunately, the people with the most problems also tend to be the ones who don't have enough money. That's really their problem. :wink:
    If you could figure out a way to give them money and earn money for yourself while doing it, you would be a millionaire.
     
  13. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Messages:
    16,728
    Likes Received:
    207
    Trophy Points:
    63



    You mean hire them? You don't always make millions doing that.




     
  14. SMDBill

    SMDBill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,715
    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    83
    They shouldn't need to. I meant employees from bottom to near the top are not experiencing growing incomes as profits continue to climb.
     
  15. SMDBill

    SMDBill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,715
    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I agree. We also added a very large number of women to the workforce starting in the 1970s, which helped to solve the shortage of manpower in the short term, but contributed to dilution of the workforce in the long term as more and more workers took on more jobs, more hours, 2nd jobs, etc. just to make ends meet. Today we're doing all those things while trying to support a massive level of household debt, which takes buying power away from demand for goods and services because we're unable to pay it off in the aggregate so we spend a great deal of money on satisfying interest. Without increases in income, the problem cannot solve itself because workers are not gaining in buying power over time, which will hurt the very corporations who cut wages and benefits, cut workers, etc., in response to market conditions. It's a terrible catch-22.
     
  16. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The US can no longer afford to be a manufacturing economy as long as manufacturing can be done at much lower costs worldwide in a global economy. That is what the middle class was based on.
     
  17. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not necessarily true. It depends on the market they are in and the skills they hold.

    I was just on a conference call with a bunch of programmers. All of of the programmers were from India. The managers were not. Programmers used to make pretty good money here until the market changed. For global companies it makes sense to use programmers from India, they are mostly excellent. For smaller companies it is not feasible to use programmers from India so employ Americans and that is where the opportunity is. Those Americans still in the field in global companies do experience growing incomes as they have demonstrated value.

    The real problem is that many of the skills of yesterday are replaced by cheaper and sometime better labor. Service jobs can't necessarily be outsourced to another country so that is the majority of jobs left.

    Long gone are the days of a union worker getting paid far above his education level to wipe a drip off of a product as it comes out of a degreasing booth.
     
  18. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Messages:
    16,728
    Likes Received:
    207
    Trophy Points:
    63



    If I sell steel to a guy's factory and his factory becomes more profitable, it doesn't necessarily mean he'll pay more for my steel. Same with someone who sells his time to the factory.

    If an employee wants to make more money, he needs to offer more value. If that value could reasonably be expected to make the factory more profitable, the owner will probably take him up on it. Same as if I offered him stronger steel.




     
  19. SMDBill

    SMDBill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,715
    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I completely agree. Economic impacts had to be followed by businesses and we're living with the impacts of those decisions. I am not blaming business at all. It's a conundrum where employees need more, businesses need to maximize profits and minimize waste, and businesses need citizens to have the buying power to meet their needs to remain in business. That's the catch-22 I was talking about in another post. The forces just don't work in tandem and when businesses have to deal with economic factors to sustain profits and maintain efficiency, the choices they make work against workers (in the aggregate) due to job shifts overseas, hours or wage cuts, layoffs, etc. There's not an alternative within what we know as capitalism today. Businesses cannot simply be generous and pay above market rates, but workers cannot sustain what will become declining wages as we further dilute the workforce with more people. The only saving grace for many is skills and education, but at some point even those things will not be rare as more and more people obtain educations to offset declining market conditions for employees.

    The fix is going to suck. I have no idea what it'll end up being, but until people can either offload massive amounts of individual debt or earn significantly more money, corporations cannot expect much in the way of demand growth that doesn't just shift from one industry to another (away from "wants" over to "needs" like food, energy, etc.). I'm a fan of capitalism, but we have a really strange set of circumstances in place that capitalism isn't really designed to heal. Individually we can do really well, but on the whole we're not progressing income-wise and businesses are reacting accordingly. The numbers show up in unemployment, food stamps and other federal reliance.
     
  20. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,044
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If everyone put the same percentage of their income into investments as the upper middle class did, wealth inequality would only be as great as income inequality.
    However, many people with limited incomes simply cannot do this. The first investment is their house, and they are still busy trying to pay off the mortgage.
    Lower income people also cannot afford to take the same risk as wealthier investors with their retirement savings, if something goes wrong.
    And poor people have basic expenses and do not have money for much else (although in many cases they could be holding on to more money if they really tried).
     
  21. SMDBill

    SMDBill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,715
    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I understand the economics side of it. The problem is there's no corrective mechanism within our system for people inundated with too much accumulated household debt, stagnant wages and declining demand in the economy as a result. Individually, we can do better for ourselves, but the aggregate won't improve no matter what we do as individuals. We could work ourselves into the ground as employees and bring no more value to the employer if the economy cannot generate additional demand that did not exist previously. Otherwise, it's just a demand shift from one company to another without true economic benefit overall.
     
  22. Cautiously Conservative

    Cautiously Conservative New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    1,549
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    0
    None of the poll choices broaches the REAL employment these days.

    Lack of a good work ethic. That's it.

    Employers will pay what a worker is worth, and ask any employer if the quality of his workers has increased or decreased?

    That is not to say that there are not AMAZING workers - there are, but the percentage of amazing workers is down.

    Way down.
     
  23. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,044
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Getting into debt for basic living expenses is not a sustainable thing. There's no reason to take on debt for that, and continuing to take on more of that debt cannot be continued forever.
    If you can't pay your basic expenses now, what makes you think you will be able to pay for those same expenses in 10 years? Budget cuts have to be made, even if those expenses are for essentials.
    Unless you have some reason to believe you will be earning much more in the future than you are earning now.
     
  24. SMDBill

    SMDBill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,715
    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Agreed again. The problem is we're already past the point of placing blame. This is a global issue in industrialized nations like the US, Britain and others. It's an epidemic without an escape hatch.
     
  25. Woolley

    Woolley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2014
    Messages:
    4,134
    Likes Received:
    962
    Trophy Points:
    113
    gibberish. You want an entitled class? Look at any heir who inherits more than a million bucks. Hell, make it 500k. The nation works as hard today as it ever has, in fact, we work harder because now it takes two to make what our dad's used to make while mom was baking cookies and watching "Queen for a Day". This is all just nonsense. We need to make more money, tax incomes at a higher rate and start investing in the nation again. Until that happens, expect more poverty and eventually, a revolution.
     

Share This Page