Stolen Valor

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Clausewitz, Mar 14, 2015.

  1. Clausewitz

    Clausewitz Active Member

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    Stolen Valor refers to a federal bill outlawing anybody from wearing a military uniform, rank, or awards that they didn't earn in order to acquire some type of financial gain. It does not apply to people who wear things they haven't earned if they're not seeking some type of compensation (eg va benefits or even military discount at foot locker). With that said, how do you feel about the "stolen valor" videos of real troops or veterans confronting impostors?

    http://youtu.be/sOj07ClhEi8

    http://youtu.be/f7utH8riCTc
     
  2. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I personally find the videos hilarious. I find them funny because the real service members always seem to put the impostors on the spot by asking specific questions and watching them squirm.

    I've run into a few impostors in my day and it's quite funny and sad how far they will go to keep their lies up. I've met a guy before who was lying to a girl in a bar about being a Soldier who just returned from war. Unfortunately for him the REAL Soldiers who had just returned from deployment happened to be in the bar as well. So the real Soldiers came up to him and said it was customary for the "new guy" to buy all of the drinks for everyone. Afraid of getting exposed in front of his lady friend he proceeded to buy round after round after round for the multiple troops in the bar. After racking up a hefty bar tab and treating all of us to free drinks all night one of the real Soldiers exposed him anyway in front of the girl. Funniest part is that the girl was actually prior service and knew the dude was full of crap the entire time. She was just using him to let him buy her drinks all night.

    So not only did he lose the girl he also lost out on a bar tab that ended up being a few hundred dollars. Oh well, that's the least he could do for being a lying punk.

    Few things are more disgusting than stolen valor. Men and women fight and die in that uniform and make sacrifices that the majority of the public couldn't even fathom. It's absolutely sickening that there are people out there who have the audacity to take credit from what real service members have done.

    So heres a bit of advice. If you are going to walk around pretending to be in the military then at least use the internet and read how the uniform is supposed to look. And if you are going to lie then make the lie believable, don't say you are a Navy SEAL or Delta Force or something outrageous. And if you are going to start lying about war stories in the bar to impress women then do a quick scan of the place to make sure there isn't anybody in there with a crew cut. Military folks tend to flock to each other even as strangers and love comparing war stories with each other in bars. So if they hear you talking about your deployment chances are somebody will walk up and ask you where you were and what unit you were in and what you did. Don't look like an idiot by not having the answers to these questions.

    Oh and for the love of God if you are going to lie about being a war vet returning from deployment make sure you don't say you were part of the REAL unit that just got back from deployment in your town while hanging out in THEIR bar. If you do so you may end up with a huge bar tab and get made fun of by people on the internet. Plus combat grunts usually aren't the nicest people in the world and have very little patience after returning from a war zone. Being forced to buy hundreds of dollars worth of drinks is probably the best case scenario...I have seen much worse when real troops catch people lying pretending to be them. Just saying...not exactly the best idea.
     
  3. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    As a fellow "husky" size person, the guy in the first video looked a bit overweight to be a Ranger. I would think that alone is a dead giveaway he's a poser. He seemed to have a passing knowledge of Army related things, so maybe he was in at some point...but certainly never a Ranger.

    If he's using the uniform to get discounts that would normally be going to legitimate military personnel, he should be charged with the crime of fraud.
     
  4. Casper

    Casper Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    I think they should be called out, have run into two that made BS statements took only a few questions to know they were lying through their teeth. Both times Vets made sure everyone knew the were Bogus and both ended up leaving the company because so many people looked at them as the POS's they were.
     
  5. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It use to be federal law that only an active member of the military or a reservist or guardsman going to or from a weekend drill could wear the uniform in public.
    After being honorably discharged one could continue to wear the uniform for 30 days.

    A retired military vet can wear the uniform at an official military social function. I not being retired military and only served a few years on active duty can not show up at the Marine Corps Ball wearing my old uniform. (*)(*)(*)(*), I couldn't even fit in it today

    Parts of the uniform could be worn by anyone but not the entire uniform.

    As for posers, this is something that started around the late 80's and the first Gulf war when those of military age during the Vietnam war who didn't serve started to claim they served in Vietnam. Maybe it's a guilt thing of not serving when there was no problem with them volunteering back then. From 1970 to the 1980's most of those who served during the Vietnam war era didn't want to admit it. It really depended where you lived. In the Southern states, they highly respected vets while in liberal states in the north and left coast they didn't. It was best to keep a low profile back then.

    It wasn't after civilians started thanking Vietnam vets for their service twenty years to late that these posers stated appearing. Now you have men of military age today claiming they served in Iraq or Afhganaistan who never served.

    The mistakes one makes, the decisions one makes right or wrong when one is young will follow you around for the rest of your life. Suck it up and live with it.
     
  6. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    This is a curious American phenomenon, connected with your culture. In Italy, despite today there are dozens of thousands of professional soldiers with experience in Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon ... pilots who has attacked here and there around the planet, forces active in many scenarios ...

    here there is not the culture of the value of the soldier who serves the Republic. So that no one sustains to be a soldier to date a girl or a woman [or to be a veteran of Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia ...].

    No, we haven't got that problem. There was a similar problem in the past, after WW II, since there were economical aids for former soldiers and their families. It happened that someone tried and lie to the authorities to get those economical aids.

    Anyway, in general I find ignoble to pretend to have served, it dishonor the uniform, the flag and all who have really served.
     
  7. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    That guy seemed like a person who went on google and read a bit about Army uniform standards and what different badges mean. I highly doubt that anyone with prior service in the Army would put the flag in the wrong place or not understand that you don't get multiple combat skill badges of the same type.

    Plus I don't know any E-6 who would walk around the mall in their uniform to go shopping. Once you get past the rank of Private wearing your uniform around in public is no longer "cool".
     
  8. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I would agree that it seems to be an American phenomenon, or at least I've not heard of this being a common issue in other countries. The thing is, it's extremely easy for military and former military to spot them. As a former Army NCO, the uniform mistakes jump right out at me.

    I've noticed that in a lot of TV and movies, the Army uniforms are worn incorrectly more times than not. It actually bugs me and cuts in to my enjoyment of a movie, because I think if they get this simple stuff wrong, what else are they getting wrong.
     
  9. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    The triple combat infantry badge tipped him off the guy was a phoney, aside from his obvious appearance as physically out of shape.
    Besides the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq, the last qualifying conflict to be awarded a CIB would have been Somalia in 1994.

    There are very few triple CIB recipients and their names are displayed at the Infantry museum in Ft. Benning.

    Regarding wearing the uniform in public, around military communities I have seen soldiers in ACUs at WalMart, etc. Wearing them to get attention is probably the wrong reason. Anyone can buy an ACU at an Army/Navy surplus store along with those tabs he was wearing. It takes a special kind of a*hole to actually wear them in public and portray yourself as a phoney soldier. I'm glad he was shamed and will hopefully never wear that uniform again.
     
  10. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    As a former N.C.O. of the U.S. Navy I find that usually movies depicting naval activities do have the uniforms correct in general. What bothers me, though, is when the actors fail to maintain a nominal amount of military protocol and also when they deliver either a limp-wristed or just outright sloppy salute. Now I occasionally saw the same thing during my years of service, but actors seem to go out of their way to do that sort of thing, and it bugs me. But then again it is a minor trifle as an irritant, isn't it?
     
  11. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    OK OK...yes it's minor. But a long career hones you to focus on those little things.
     
  12. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    Saluting indoors, with no cover, is often portrayed in the movies and incorrect protocol.
     
  13. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah . . . that still freaks me out. I still remember my company commander making me do push-ups until my arms threatened to fall off during boot-camp because I was so tired at one point that after removing my cover for indoors I then saw him approaching out of the corner of my eye and whipped out a crisp salute. Ouch!

    For civilians confused, you do not wear a cover (uniform hat) indoors and without a cover you are not supposed to salute. When outdoors you are always supposed to be wearing some sort of cover and then you are supposed to salute. Military protocol.
     
  14. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    Oh well, enjoy that, theater uniforms [or scene uniforms] are usually not produced by the suppliers of the Army, so that mistakes are not rare.

    There is only an Italian corp which usually sees respected its look: Carabinieri. You know why? Because they request to take part, directly, to the movie.

    While they were recording Angels and Demons in Rome, some officers of the Carabinieri got involved and the Army supplied also the vehicles. And sure they controlled that the uniforms were standard [and they were standard uniforms].
     
  15. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    In movies in which the military actually takes part, there doesn't seem to be the issue with incorrect uniforms or military protocol. So the Carabinieri probably wanted to participate in the Angels and Demons movie for the same reason that American military sometimes actively participates in film projects; to protect their image as presented on screen. I watched a movie on TV a few weeks ago, Battleship, which as a movie, was pretty formulaic (the US Navy against alien invaders). However it got the military aspects right. It apparently had a lot of active participation from the US Navy including to using a lot of real navy personnel in many scenes. Ironically, two of the major actors playing Navy officers were non American; Liam Neeson (Irish) and Alexander Skarsgard (Swedish).
     
  16. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Yeah theres nothing wrong with stopping by the store or something in uniform on the way home. I see plenty of Soldiers shopping in their uniforms during lunch time or a few hours after work. But if you walk around with the thing on just for hell of it is extremely cheesy and lame. It's always funny when I go back to my home town and I see the brand new kids fresh out of basic training walking around the mall in their uniforms. I just laugh Im like come on guy there isn't an Army base within 90 miles of here why the hell are you wearing that...plus its Saturday lol.
     
  17. Clausewitz

    Clausewitz Active Member

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    I once saw a young soldier on a plane tell a civilian that he wanted to get promoted to the next rank, because at the next rank he wouldn't have to work. He also said he could just go to school on the taxpayers dime. Shame...
     
  18. krashsmith81

    krashsmith81 New Member

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    Sorry I took so long to reply to this thread, I have been really busy lately, I just got back from my latest deployment in a g-14 classified third world country where the chopper I was on got hit by RPG fire and we crashed. When I climbed out of the wreckage I witnessed firsthand people shooting nun's in the head, but thankfully I got out of there alive!
     
  19. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I think Brian Williams hacked your account.
     
  20. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    While at Ft Lewis Washington in the 1980's, the Army base commander ordered only Class A's to be worn in the local mall. NO BDU's.

    At the time, I usually didn't wear my BDU's off base much, as it didn't reward with much positive attention.

    Of course the stolen valor guys deserve to be gut punched---but I'm not so fond of the old guys who still wear ALL of their military history on their field jackets and such in public: rank, decorations, etc. I think the proper protocol is to just leave the name and unit patches on such old uniforms once one has left the military.
     
  21. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think many old salts still have a problem with soldiers wearing ACU/BDU's off base. It's so third world military looking.

    Before the all volunteer military, be they Marines utilities, army fatigues, BDU's, ACU's or what ever they are work clothes. It's what you wore while scrubbing toilets, on the range and occasionally while killing the enemy in combat.

    I can see the problem with the army, they use to have dress uniforms that looked military, back when they wore the tan khaki shirts. But when they went to the hospital orderly green shirts, what were they thinking ? Todays army's dress uniform looks like a formal dress uniform one would wear to a state dinner at the White House.

    There was a time when you could only get off base if you were wearing a dress uniform or were wearing civvies and even then what civvies you wore was restricted. No blue jeans, shirt had to have a collar, no tennis shoes or sneakers, the shoes had to be leather. A belt was required.

    It went as far as underwear. Military issue boxer shorts was the rule. White or olive drab. Only REMF's wore underwear in the Nam. To (*)(*)(*)(*)ing hot and humid. Going commando was the rule of the thumb.

    I remember one day a buddy of mine was standing at the hatchway of the barracks only wearing his jockey shorts. A Marine Major was walking by and commented to the Marine, "You know if you were to be captured by the enemy and you're only dressed in those jockey shorts, you could be shot on the spot as a spy." :smile:

    When I was a short timer I was TAD to the Camp Pendleton, Provost Marshal's Office. I was usually a chaser who would pick up Marines and sailors who were arrested by civilian authorities and ended up in the county jail. I remembered I always had to return to my hut and take off my utilities and dress in the service Alpha, Bravo or Charlie depending if it was summer or winter. And we couldn't wear the pisccutter it had to be the barracks cover or that funny looking white MP helmet.
     

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