Only the Tories can save the UK

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by rangecontraction, Apr 12, 2015.

  1. rangecontraction

    rangecontraction New Member

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    UKIP are a fundamentally racist party, who will deport me since I am a Pakistani Muslim who lives in Yorkshire.

    Labour are anti-wealth. As a multimillionaire, Labour will tax me to the hilt.

    The only party worth voting for are the Tories, since they will only deport poor immigrants, not rich tax-paying immigrants like me.

    This is why I will be voting for the Tories.
     
  2. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    seems reasonable
     
  3. Jackster

    Jackster New Member

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    The UK was fine before you got there so im sure it'll be fine after you're deported with a UKIP govt.
     
  4. lunecat

    lunecat Active Member

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    LOL, well I'm not too sure how serous you are being. UKIP (not a party I intend to vote for) doesn't plan to deport any non-UK passport holders.

    The only reason to vote for UKIP is to get a true referendum on the UK membership of the EU. although the Tories have promised such a vote , I doubt their honesty in a true in/out ballot on the subject. I fear they will make it a watered-downed version. The people of the UK should be allowed this generational decision, as the Westminster elite have mis-led us all.

    As someone that has never voted for UKIP, but has given it some thought. & welcome many immigrants to the UK, but as I said in another thread 1.9 million unemployed, 7.5 million immigrants. All I'm saying is that their should only be 1.9 million less immigrants than their already is. That is not to say I hate immigrants, jus to say, why are their more immigrants than their are jobs to satisfy the market?

    Again I feel the only reason for the policy is that one driven by large employers that wish to drive down wages of the working class by making the market for cheap labour plentiful. Which is a very ant-tory policy.
     
  5. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Labour isn't anti-wealth (I mean, look at Jack Straw, he's doing all he can to get the dough), it's about those that don't have wealth. As for immigration. Generally speaking immigration is good for a country's economy, I'd be looking elsewhere to find out why the economy isn't doing so well and I'd start with young George Obsorne.
     
  6. Paksenarrion

    Paksenarrion New Member

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    I'm a Labour supporter and but I do agree with UKIP that immigration is being used to keep wages low. After a lot of thought I would out in a in or out referendum Europe is run by the corporations an vested interests with very little accountability.
     
  7. lunecat

    lunecat Active Member

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    Tony Benn would be proud of you!
     
  8. Paksenarrion

    Paksenarrion New Member

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    And I would be proud that he was proud. :p
     
  9. rangecontraction

    rangecontraction New Member

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    I think that it will be a hanging parliament. I think the Torres will get most chairs but that they will not have other parties with enough chairs to put together a government. As such, I think that the Laborites will come to power, working with UKIP and the Scottish Party of Nationalities.
     
  10. Paksenarrion

    Paksenarrion New Member

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    As long as Milliband draws a red line on Trident, another Scottish referendum and the economy I see no problem with Labour doing a deal with the SNP. Oh it will be a cold day in hell before Labour do a deal with the UKIPPERS
     
  11. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    UKIP have no interest in deporting people who hold UK passports and/or contribute to the economy, what they do want to do is to stop this mindless free movement of people between borders, that single policy is one of the biggest flaws of the EU, it does nothing to improve the countries the immigrants come from and only serves to push wages down in the UK.

    We see the usual propaganda vomited out by the other parties especially about the NHS collapsing without "foreign" workers and what they fail to see is that UKIP have no agenda to remove those people, in fact all they want to do is to have control over who comes here ie if we require more nurses and doctors because we don't have enough people entering those professions then lets get the people we need from where every they may be, same goes for plumbers, etc etc the key principle is having the ability to control the numbers.

    The truly daft thing about your above comment is that people of your type ie Pakistani Muslim are already controlled as to how, when and for how long you can stay here, so your fear is just a red herring.

    Very true as well as pushing up the debt and having a minority SNP MP's deciding government policy.

    Until the Tories stop being scared of the immigration issues then I will vote UKIP, take us out of Europe and the money saved can be used for far better reasons that propping up the failed experiment that is the EU.

    What the British people fail to understand is that regardless of opinions on immigration we were lied to about what the 'Common Market' was about in 1975, a fact that Ted Heath admitted in later interviews .. He knew very well that the overall objective was to form a single European State and that the British people would not vote yes if they knew that.
     
  12. lunecat

    lunecat Active Member

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    There is no chance of any nu-Labour & UKIP doing a deal. nu-Labour & SNP would, I think be a possibility, but a political disaster for nu-Labour in the long run.


    Scotland has its own devolved Parliment & the SNP has no broad UK policy for Westminster, other than to "get the Tories out", based upon their hated for the Tories of the 1980's & 90's.

    50-60 years ago Scotland returned many Conservative MPs to WestMinister. Now it looks like it will be predominately SNP politicians.

    Anyway, just a few hours to wait & see... Only 2hours to the polls closing & 4-10 hors before we know the outcome. I hope it is not another hung Parliment!!! I prefer FPTP & despise all these silly calls for PR & AV systems in a Country that just doesn't need for fundentally want a change in the voting system.
     
  13. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    Polls show Labour and Conservatives are tied at 34% and the SNP will win all Scottish seats (54). So Labour needs to form a coalition with the SNP or the current coalition government (Cons+Lib Dems) could still win the general election without reaching a majority.
     
  14. lunecat

    lunecat Active Member

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    Well it is 2AM as I type & the results are only just coming in & no firm result yet! But the exit polls are indicating a Conservative 316 count (323 required for an outright majority). So all in all it suggests that it will be a Conservative Government, in alliance with maybe the DUP. Pitty for the UK that an outright majority hasn't been gained. As this will lead to more silly comments about introducing a PR system into the UK, which I would strongly disagree with.


    Scotland may well be a sweep for the SNP, although where I live (East Lothian) I think they will go nu-Labour so it may be the only nu-Labour seat in Scotland.

    The only consolation with a Conservative government is that we "may" get a referendum on EU membership, although I doubt it will be a clear in/out vote, due to Cameron being a pro-EU buff.
     
  15. lunecat

    lunecat Active Member

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    Well I was wrong East Lothian with a 20,000+ majority for nu-Labour has fallen to the SNP (~100,000 electorate). East Lothian was ~70% against Independence, so I am surprised with this result. The SNP could actually sweep all of Scotland. All hope is that these rabid nationalists are locked out of power in Westminster with a Conservation majority.
     
  16. mairead

    mairead New Member

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    The Conservatives under Cameron in the UK will go down in history as the party that broke the union, not the SNP as everyone supposes. Cameron is a destructive force, bordering on a dictator and the Tories have been rejected by three of the four parts of the UK. Scotland, Ireland, and Wales all totally rejected the Tories, but we got them anyway because of the crazy voting system over here.
     
  17. BEG

    BEG New Member

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    @paki Mohamed s.a. said: the Majority of people who rot in hell will be rich.
     
  18. lunecat

    lunecat Active Member

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    Of course you must back up this claim with some kind of coherent debate.

    The SNP would like to blame any Tory government for anything they can in order to try and get an Independent Scotland.
     
  19. munter

    munter New Member

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    complete nonsense, UKIP have not proposed to deport foreigners, unless you're an illegal immigrant - are you?
     
  20. munter

    munter New Member

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    I would have favoured a UKIP/Labour coalition, never on the cards this time, but next election- perhaps....?
     
  21. lunecat

    lunecat Active Member

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    I think in the run up to the 2017 referendum we shall all see much more lies & propaganda about the "so-called " benefits of EU migrants.

    I read recently on a BBC (pro-EU) article that EU migrants take much less unemployment benefits than UK born citizens, this was a bullet point in the in/out debate given to the "in" argument.

    What they fail to mention, is that if migrants weren't present then there would be more employment opportunities for British citizens; and less need for the to accept unemployment benefits. Although I do accept some Brits need a damn good kick up the backsides to take the jobs that are filled by migrants.

    To this we need to do away the socialist (communist) policy of working tax credits. It should not be a policy of Government to spend taxes giving money to people who employers are reluctant to pay a decent working wage.

    Introduce a minimum working wage & introduce import tariffs to produce an environment that ensures full employment for British people & keep out migrants that drive down the wages of the British working class.

    I used to vote Labour in the 1980s when they were an anti-EEC party, but now they are just another pro-big business party that will promote the lie that the UK is better off in the EU in the coming 2017 referendum. I shall never vote Labour again, as they do not represent the working people of Britain/

    Labour are a party of the middle class public sector workers that don't want the gravy train turned off.
     
  22. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    I pretty much agree with all of the above .. however, I would advise some caution on the working tax credits, there are always going to be businesses that simply can not afford to pay the living wage, my partner owns one, if she were forced to pay the current living wage she would cease trading (and as such place more people unemployed) or would have to increase her prices in order to cover her increase in wages.

    TBH the living wage is a red herring, it might work and look all rosy for a while, but in the long term the people on the living wage would be in the same position they are now, in order to account for the living wage, manufacturing costs, transport etc would have to increase, this would push up prices to the consumer ergo fuelling inflation and it would not be the big businesses that would suffer the most, it would be the small businesses. I don't know about you but I have no desire to see big businesses in control of all aspects of our lives from the cradle to the grave.

    As far as the NHS collapse is concerned 78.5% of the work force employed by the NHS are British citizens, with almost equal amounts of EU and Commonwealth immigrants (3.6% & 4% respectfully) - the figures also give an 11.4% of unknown and 2.6% other.

    The NHS (overall) employees around 1.6 million people which equates to 57,600 EU immigrants, I cannot believe for one moment that out of the 1.86 million unemployed people in the UK, with the correct structure, we could not train 57,600 to replace them. Of course the other thing that the scaremongers fail to say is those who are already employed and as such paying taxes etc would not be subject to any deportation, they are after all already contributing to the economy.
     
  23. lunecat

    lunecat Active Member

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    "my partner owns one, if she were forced to pay the current living wage she would cease trading"

    Tough! if she can't run a profitable business without accepting the socialist hand outs then I would see her business go down. Why not just vote nu-Labour if you wish to compromise your opinions.

    Or maybe you missed my "import tariffs" part of my post. Throughout history many economies have boomed due to import tariffs. The only thing Britian may lack is food imports. And the best answer to that is Commonwealth agreements, WTO agreements & GATT agreements. All of which trump the fascist EU state..
    Despite what their propaganda pumps out about British economy losing out if we should exit the EU.

    All the British people want is fair trade. WTO & GATT give us that. The EU takes away billions of tax revenue, gives it to impoverished EU Countries & drives down the wages of British people. If your partner's business only survives on the exploitation of low wages then... F**k her business is all I can say!

    I am sure all the business owners (like your partner) will be hoping & prompting continued slavery within the big-business run EU. I hope you losses the vote.
     
  24. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Then you are condemning a multitude of small businesses to the scrap heap, along with the huge increase in unemployment and loss of tax revenue that would bring. My partners business works on a net profit of approx 3% which is standard for the type of industry she is in . as it is she pays over the minimum wage to ALL her employees.

    100% agree

    I'm sorry it is not that-that drives down the wages of British people, what does is the massive payouts required by investors and share-holders from big businesses, they have the power to force down the cost of their materials which leads to lower prices in the market place . .that is not going to change simply by bringing in a living wage, all it will do is force small business to close as they do not have the buying power of the big businesses, they simply could not compete, which IMO would lead to big businesses taking over every single aspect of daily life, from where you buy your grocers to where you buy your coffin .. if you want to see Wallmart type sheds sprouting up all over the country and boarded up high streets then by all means go for it. I however do not.

    Don't blame small businesses for the high working tax credits, blame the big businesses that force suppliers to sell at stupid low prices in order to feed the pockets of their investors and share-holders, and for controlling the market place.

    Wrong again, I and my partner will be voting to exit the EU as soon as possible, the exiting from the EU has nothing to do with the tax credit system.
     
  25. lunecat

    lunecat Active Member

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    Yes I am.

    Read "F. A. Hayek The Road to Serfdom" to understand why I totally oppose any kind of state hand-outs to you, your partner's business or any low-paid worker in the UK. Or in fact anyway in the Capitalist World,

    If you can't make a living from one job, then leave it & look for employment elsewhere.

    I would do away with a social security system & promoted a "friends" society kind of system in its place.

    EU style State intervention results in State tyranny, state planning & the loss of individual freedom.
     

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