NATO vs Russia, no nukes, space destroyed

I'm curious as to what you all think of the following scenario:

* Russia takes the Ukraine, NATO comes into play, the battles are fought in we'll say Western Ukraine by the time NATO mobilized.
* No nukes are used, conventional warfare. Lets face it no one wants to shoot a nuke, as both the US and Russia have shown over the years of close calls and training
* Russia, in an effort to kill the US technological advantage, launches slugs into space to create the Kessler syndrome. Basically no more satellites because space is a giant debris field.

So now we are playing Russia's game. We don't have GPS, no space capabilities at all. They have AA missile systems which have distance and accuracy, the latest of which can apparently hit stealth aircraft. How does it go?

 

If Russia takes out our GPS, our response would be to take out Russia's GLONASS .

The end game will be decided who's more dependent on technology, NATO or the Russian military ?

Do today's American soldiers, sailor and airmen still know how to read a map, use a compass, navigate a ship or aircraft using a navigation chart and a sextant ?

Do our B-52's still have a built in sextant ?
Are any of our old LORAN stations still operable ? I don't think so.
I think Europe weren't stupid enough to decommission their LORAN stations so I been told.

 

A part that it's not rare that at NATO orientation contests in Norway Italian Alpines win ...

Western soldiers can still combat without satellites, don't worry.

Anyway, the curious scenario would see a huge conventional, but aged, army [the Russian one] against a modern and well equipped, but more little, army [the NATO one].

NATO should use all stealth units to get air superiority and to diminish anti air Russian defense. Our anti tank helicopters should supply a wide close support to the armored divisions. There is still the option of B52 and great bombers [releasing great quantities of fragmentation bombs they can erase entire armored brigades in a while, we saw this in the first Gulf War, just to say].

No nukes, doesn't mean no high potential weaponry. Just to stop the enormous Russian armored divisions in the West we have developed also thermobaric warheads and I guess we would use them against advancing Russian tanks.

Personally I still see a technological advantage on NATO side [overall thinking that the Russian stealth program is on late].

 

Ukraine is not a member of NATO, so does not matter.

Nukes are a political weapon anyways, not a military one.

Space slugs, like in The Empire Strikes Back?



Face it, nobody is going to try and remove satellites, because everybody relies on them. And you can forget about the "AA missile systems", because the Russian stuff is mostly just some bandaids on the older Soviet stuff. Any missile can hit any aircraft, but first it has to be acquired by the targeting system, and that is where Russia has the problems.

A Stealth Firghter can be brought down by WWII era systems, as long as they can "see" the fighter.

Sorry, all you have done is throw together a randum bunch of questions, that I find rather silly to be honest. But please, come back when you have a serious question.

 

Russian caused Kessler Syndrome causes economic collapse worldwide, they are now fighting he entire planet not just NATO.

 

^
Lol

 

I'm thinking it would be pretty tough for western forces when the Russians would practically be on their home turf. There would arise questions of whether they could cut off US logistics to the region, and what allies each side might have...

 

Yeah the supply and reinforcements issue is in Russia's favor. If the Russian Navy and interdict enough US supplies and troops from getting into the war, it seems like they can provide larger and better supplied forces to push any NATO troops out of the Ukraine. However I don't see the scenario is very realistic either. NATO isn't going to war for the Ukraine. Russians are there right now and we're doing nothing.

 

I agree it's not a likely scenario, but it does of course make for interesting speculation. Two modern, high tech militaries duking it out is bound to be interesting!

 

The AAA guns were the most effective weapons in bringing down U.S. aircraft over North Vietnam during the Vietnam War.

 

One thing Putin and Russia has is 10 million young males of military age who are in physical shape and our very nationalistic and are just itching to pick up an AK-74 and fight for mother Russia.

In America, 3/4 of America's males of military age can't even volunteer to serve because they aren't qualified. 1/2 of young American males of military age are physically nothing more than "Pillsbury doughboys." With the changing ethnic makeup of America, America is no longer a nation of warriors.


Why is the Russian bear on the move ? Geo-politically Putin sees Obama's PC military that he has created in the past six years, social engineering of the military instead of training for war. Today 1/2 of the Marine Corps isn't combat capable and is able to deploy and win battles.

The U.S. Army is worse off, 5/6 of the Army's combat brigades have a combat readiness rating of either a C-3 or C-4, unable to be deployed and fight and win.

Putin knows this so he's going to take advantage of it. Putin is a master chess player on the geo-political chessboard while Obama plays checkers.

 

As long as Obama thinks the purpose of the Great Game is to give away his pieces as quickly as possible, it doesn't matter what game Putin is playing, Obama has made it easy for him.

But even if we lost a hypothetical war, I think Obama would still feel we win if we have more trans military personnel in key positions than the Russian military.

 

I imagine they'll need to do more then take down the satellites to have an impact on the US war arsenal. I'd say Russia's push would last as long as it took the US to stabilize a supply line to Europe (sound familiar). It wasn't that long ago GPS didnt even exist!!! It's those pesky EMP devices I'm worried about as I imagine its hard to effectively shield most things.

 

Obama said back in 2009 after he became CnC that he planned to change the military including the face of the military.

Condoleezza Rice who's considered one of the top experts on Russia especially Soviet Russia wrote an interesting paper comparing two world leaders. One a past world leader and the other a present world leader.

Purge the nations Officers Corps. Embed political officers with in the military. Change the purpose, culture and customs of the military.

This is exactly what Joseph Stalin did after coming into power during the 1920's and 30's before he found himself in a shooting war with Germany.

Barck Obama is that other world leader of today who's doing exactly the same thing Stalin did.

Purging the U.S. military Officers Corps and replacing them with "yes men"
Military diversity officers are Obama's political officers.
Liberal social engineering of the U.S. military is changing the purpose of the military and it's culture and customs.
Lowering the academic standers for officers candidates in the name of diversity.

 

EMP Threats Force NORAD Back Into Cheyenne Mountain

 

I keep telling people that Barack Obama didn't just study Saul Alinsky tactics he eventually got good enough at them that he was paid to teach them to other wannabe Community Organizers. That sort of thing sinks in to the bone and becomes part of the psyche. Once Barack became chief executive of this nation the very nature of his earlier training compelled him to begin urinating all over this nation the Saul Alinsky way.

Obama is not all that good at this stuff. It's just that he's relentless and he is surrounded by ideologically lock step enablers . . . none of whom actually understand how what they are doing is putting the future of this nation at risk. They don't care. They are like a bunch of giggling school kids thinking that it's cool to put one over on authority.

 

Obama does copy others, he modeled his entire speech and presentation technique on a slowed down version of Tony (Anthony) Robbin's, deliberately to influence people as a means to get into power. He knows he cannot argue against maximum terms in the top Office job though surely. So long as Obama doesn't actually do a Putin, his techniques are just at the level of hungry, not maniacal.

 

I was just thinking, the chi-coms have done a lot of stupid things in the past, just recently they took out one of their own satellites thinking they were big (*)(*)(*)(*).

But they neglected to think about all that debris that is now orbiting around in space.

Wasn't that movie "Gravity" all about the chi-coms debris from the satellite they took out that took out the international space station ?

 

We....the U.S. have been planning for such a possible event for multiple decades.

All newer U.S. Military Satellites including all current GPS Satellites as the ENTIRE WORLDWIDE USE GPS SATELLITE SYSTEM IS AMERICAN...as we deployed them.

The U.S. Military has the ability to shoot down or destroy any Russian or Chinese ASAT Missile....ASAT meaning Anti-Satellite.

We have a 6 Tier System and these are deployed WORLDWIDE and within 7 to 10 years all U.S. Nuclear Carrier Groups will have FEL Systems....FEL....FREE ELECTRON LASER SYSTEMS......as all Ford Class and Nimitz Class Carriers will have FEL's supplied ower by two new designed A1B Nuclear Reactors.

As well all U.S. Navy Ticonderoga Class Aegis Cruisers.....2 Aegis Cruisers per single U.S. Nuclear Carrier Battle Group.....will also have FEL's.

Along with a variable manuvering Worldwide FEL Over the Horizon Targeting System as the FEL is not effected by Atmosphere the way other Lasers are and because it is so powerful normal or standard Mirror Laser Optics would be vaporized so a system of Insect Like Compound Prism Eyes on Targeting Satellites will allow the FEL to vaporize targets anywhere on land, on the water, under the water, in space, underground....anywhere.

Discover Magazine reported that a properly powered FEL Beam can VAPORIZE A ONE CENTIMETER HOLE THROUGH 1000 FEET OF SOLID STEEL.

Since with the deployment of FEL's already existing on LAND and a few on water......add to this the U.S. Navy's SM-3 ABM/ASAT....already tested as it destroyed just ONE TARGETED PART.....a Hydrazine Booster Tank....on a failing Satellite as Hydrazine is a deadly gas since the tank would survive reentry they figured back in 2007 or 2008 it was the perfect chance to test the SM-3.

The SM-3 was launched from the Ticonderoga Class Cruiser USS. Lake Erie and the SM-3 DIRECTLY STRUCK AND DESTROYED JUST THAT ONE SINGLE PART OF A SATELLITE TRAVELING AT VELOCITIES BETWEEN 14,500 to 16,000 mph AT ORBITAL DISTANCE!!!

Here is a LINK to the story and video......LINK.....http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/u-s-navy-missile-defense-operation-burnt-frost/

Needless to say when the full FEL system is in place it will completely change the face of Warfare....but for right now.....the U.S. Military reigns supreme.

Even if they were able to shoot a few down....we have replacements sitting in storage at VANDENBURG.

As well we have KITS where instead of using GPS for JDAM'S....we use CELESTIAL BODY OBSERVATION GUIDANCE as well as GLOBAL MAPPING.

Anyway you look at it....there is not much they could do to stop us.

AboveAlpha

 

It was Russia that did that in the movie.

I will believe that when I see it. From everything I am reading it will likely be much later then that. The FEL project is still very much labratory only at this time, and they are not even scheduled to build a full scale prototype for another 3-4 years. Expect another 5-infinity year window for testing and improving that prototype, then working on the hardware-software to make it actually work on a ship. I am betting more like 15-20 years, if everything goes right and it works as promised.

But 7-10 years (2022-2025) when the first full scale prototype will not be delivered until 2018? 4 years from prototype to delivered functioning system? Not bloody likely.

 

Expect a reply with plenty of word capitalized out of a scifi novel...

 

I don't think so. If Russia takes out our GPS, we'll have to take out Russia.

 

It doesn't seem like Russia would gain much from this plan. At the most, they manage to remove satellite reconnaissance (which is not that big of a deal since by creating a Kessler effect, no one else will have recon either) but at the same time they destroy everyone else's property in space and now have most of the modern world bearing down on them also.

 

I largely ignore the "Technology Wonks" in here. They are so glamourized by technology and "future capabilities" and new toys that they fail to realize that most are easily defeated, in a testing phase, or very much in development and we will likely not see them for a decade or more.

They were probably saying the exact same things 30 years ago when they first heard about "Star Wars", and acting as if it was going to be in operation in 5-7 years. We are now 3 decades past that, and we are still waiting.

I pay attention to research and developments, but I never count on it until it is finished, deployed, and shown to work.

But the military has been experimenting with Free Electron Lasers for well over a decade, and we have yet to see anything even make it to the "full scale labratory prototype" phase yet. So the hype I see from the Fanbois about FEL is no different then that of the Railgun. In development for well over a decade, they are still over a year away from making even the first live fire test from a ship, let alone working on the tracking and targeting software and hardware, working out the bugs and making it so that it will be a reliable piece of equipment to put on a ship.

But to the Fanbois, it will be on every ship, sub, and tugboat by the end of the year. The Fanbois can live in Fantasyland all they want, but I only live in reality.

 

The Navy's rail gun. It's suppose to be the Navy's answer for providing the Marine grunts NSFS.
Not able to hit reverse slopes, unable to fire multi gun salvos and unable to destroy area targets in one salvo.

But what's even worse is the ship that was built to be armed with the rail gun. The DD 1000, Zumwalt class destroyer.
The biggest problem not being lacking a secondary armament, a new class of ship and already to heavy and they can't even put a little Bofor 57 mm pop cannon on the ship because of weight.

But that the Zumwalt DD 1000 has a bigger problem with seaworthiness. It'll capsize in high seas conditions. All you have to do is look at it and see some know it all geek designed it not knowing jack kelp about maritime architect.

file:///home/chronos/u-b0705d1faf56c6f81959b1f472cf69a4c1462df0/Downloads/ADA494009.pdf

First we get the Navy's "Little Crappy Ship" (LCS) that can't survive in combat engaging anything larger than a ski boat and now the Zumwalt class destroyer. Who in (*)(*)(*)(*) are designing today's ships and weapons systems ? It's as if they are ignoring physics. Maybe they should dump the computer and go back to the slide rule, it put man on the moon didn't it ?