Since 1967, Israel has Occupied the West Bank. During this time, they have stolen tens of thousands of dunams of land, that belongs to Arabs. How did they do this? By abusing and manipulating the pre-existing Jordanian & British land registration laws. After Israel counquered the West Bank, the military commander incharge of the West Bank declared that pre-existing law would remain in place: "These foundations are found in Proclamation No. 1, published by the military commander on June 7, 1967 according to which the IDF entered the Area on that day and took over control and maintenance of order and security in the Area, as well as in Proclamation No. 2 of the same day, which sets forth in Article 2 that: “The law in existence in the Area on June 7, 1967 shall remain intact" http://www.hamoked.org/files/2010/1670_eng.pdf Before Israel conquered the Wesdt Bank, the Jordanians and the British before them, were in the process of registering cultivated land to the farmers who worked it, by the following methodology: Most of the declarations were made on miri land, which is defined as all land that lies within a radius of 2.5 kilometers from the built-up area of the village, as it was in 1858, regardless of whether the land was under cultivation or not. Declarations were made also on metouae grazing land. Under the Guise of Legality shows that the declarations policy breaches the local land laws in three principal manners: Under article 78 of the Ottoman Land Code , a farmer who cultivated miri land for 10 years without objection by the state acquires ownership rights in it. The statute does not define the nature of the cultivation needed to acquire the ownership. This has important implications as the Central Mountain Range in the West Bank is characterized by rocky land, only a small portion of which is arable. The Mandatory Supreme Court ruled that in a rocky parcel of miri land, cultivation of pockets of fertile land scattered here and there grants the farmer ownership rights in the entire parcel. This doctrine was applied in the West Bank also during the period of Jordanian rule. http://m.btselem.org/publications/summaries/201203_under_the_guise_of_legality However, when Israel conquered the West Bank, they applied a different methodology as compared to the one applied by the Jordanians & British for the previous 45 years: In its declarations policy, Israel applied a different and more stringent interpretation: a person who claimed rights in rocky land must prove that he cultivated at least 50 percent of the entire parcel. If the pockets of land under cultivation amounted to less than 50 percent, the entire parcel was deemed state land, leaving the farmer with no rights whatsoever. By doing so, Israel classified as government property land that, under the local Law, was private Palestinian property. Also, since Israel knew that they could strip an Arab of his land if he didn't cultivate it for 3 out of ten years, they constantly harrass and kick Arab farmers off their land for 3 years, so as to then seize it from them: Kedumim residents who testified before the board said that the Palestinian have no problem reaching their lands. However, a visit to the area reveals a different picture: The guard at Mitzpe Yishai announced that "it is forbidden to allow Arabs in" to the lands abutting the neighborhood. After the Palestinians approached their property on foot, an army patrol arrived and moved them off. When the commander was told they have Civil Administration documents proving they own the land, the commander replied: "Documents don't interest me." Kedumim's former security chief, Michael Bar-Neder, testified that the land "allocation" was followed by an effort to expand the settlement. Bar-Neder said that once the settlers seized the lands, an application would be made to the military commander to declare them state-owned, since under the law covering the West Bank, anyone who does not cultivate his land for three years forfeits ownership of it. http://www.haaretz.com/news/court-case-reveals-how-settlers-illegally-grab-west-bank-lands-1.241487 ...this is how the Israeli govt. steals land
it doesn't belong to the Jews if they didn't buy it. only State land can be confiscated like this, and Israel has confiscated lots of non-State land.
The Romans didn't ratify the 4th Geneva Conventions, the 1907 Hague Regulations, or the UN Charter. or do you think Israel is above international law?
I believe all Nations are above International law, they are meaningless because the powerful dictate when they apply. So it goes back to Geopolitics like they always were. In any case the Geneva convention does not force people who have been ethnically cleansed to pay to get back their land and property. As the jews were by the Romans.
I already explained it regards what you wrote in this threat, in other thread in the forum Latest US & World News- http://www.politicalforum.com/lates...mp-called-suspend-any-financial-aid-pa-5.html, but if you are insisting, here's one more time: According to your link and sources: Which means that according to Artucle 73 of the Ottoman laws, Israel can object cultivation of a farmer that cultivate miri lands (= state lands) for time period of 10 years. Israel is doing that thing, which means respecting the laws. Or maybe for you, respecting and following laws is illegal? Moreover, you stated that israel can use a land that didnt got cultivated 3 years from the 10, which is according to the laws in the West Bank, and which I showed that here: which makes what Israel did in the case of Kdumim you presented in your thread, is only rainforcing the fact that Israel respecting the laws. Because after all the land that issued in the case of Kdumim was cultivated by Kedumim's inhabitant for 12 years, which means that if the land was an Arab land, then it means that according to the laws you presented, Israel can consider that land as state land, and issued it to Kdumim:
The Geneva Conventions does lay down what the norms are of the world. And what goes down into history, is that... thanks to the way massive numbers of extremistic Israeli jews, the elected Israeli government committed war crimes at the expense of Arabs for decades,... done by the IDF who about every Israeli jew joined. That collective achievement goes down in the history books. And the way the palestinian authority is going with getting their recognition in the UN. Israel is getting more and more isolated and their corruptive jewish foreign population is loosing grip.
Fine it lays out norms, so is it normal for ethnically cleansed people to have to pay for their own land? Or should those who were forced from their homeland and homes by the Romans be able to claim it back? Does ethnic cleansing have expiration date in the geneva convention?
The Geneva Conventions do not apply for the time before they were made... and that is 1949. Before that,.. the Hague Conventions were there. You can not claim personal property by race or nationality.
Romans were way before Hague Regulation in 1907 and 4th Geneva Convention in 1949. By that logic aboriginals have a right to rule Australia, native Americans North America etc. You ignore the demographic challenge if Israel were to annex West Bank(you would have to give citizenship unless you want apartheid) would eventually turn into bi-national(cause possible Yugoslavia situation multi ethnic state of people historically hostile to each other that violently broke apart) state.
You ignore important parts of article cited(you also highlight Israel can use land that hasn't been cultivated for three out of ten years then ignore that the next words are they constantly harass and kick Arab farmers off their land for 3 years, so as to then seize it from them). Important parts that you ignore include However, the amount of land recorded in the land registry as government property prior to Israel’s occupation of the West Bank in 1967 was limited (527,000 dunams, 9 percent of the West Bank, excluding East Jerusalem), and was concentrated in the Jordan Valley. The Central Mountain Ridge region contained almost no state land. Following the court’s ruling in the Elon Moreh case, and in line with policies of building settlements throughout the West Bank, including on the Central Mountain Ridge, the State of Israel declared more than 900,000 dunams as state land. Under article 78 of the Ottoman Land Code , a farmer who cultivated miri land for 10 years without objection by the state acquires ownership rights in it. The statute does not define the nature of the cultivation needed to acquire the ownership. This has important implications as the Central Mountain Range in the West Bank is characterized by rocky land, only a small portion of which is arable. The Mandatory Supreme Court ruled that in a rocky parcel of miri land, cultivation of pockets of fertile land scattered here and there grants the farmer ownership rights in the entire parcel. This doctrine was applied in the West Bank also during the period of Jordanian rule. In its declarations policy, Israel applied a different and more stringent interpretation: a person who claimed rights in rocky land must prove that he cultivated at least 50 percent of the entire parcel. If the pockets of land under cultivation amounted to less than 50 percent, the entire parcel was deemed state land, leaving the farmer with no rights whatsoever. By doing so, Israel classified as government property land that, under the local Law, was private Palestinian property. The Mandatory Supreme Court ruled that a farmer who cultivated miri land for 10 years and then ceased cultivating it did not lose the ownership rights he had acquired in the parcel, even if he did not register it on his name in the land registry. This interpretation was applied in the West Bank also during the period of Jordanian rule. In its declarations policy, Israel adopted the opposite interpretation, whereby unregistered miri land which had been cultivated for 10 years or more, after which cultivation stopped at some point, was government property and could be declared as state land. In this way, Israel declared large swaths of land in the West Bank as state land, though under the local Law they were private Palestinian property. Under the 1858 Code, metruka land is defined as public land of two kinds: one, land that serves the entire public (for example: roads), and two, land designated for a specific group, such as grazing land that a certain village has used for many years. The Mandatory Supreme Court ruled that in order to establish their collective rights in the land, it is sufficient for residents of the relevant village to prove that they used the land for many years for grazing. In its declarations on state land, Israel disregarded the collective rights of Palestinian communities in grazing land. Quite to the contrary, in many cases, Israel's declarations were based on the claim that the land was not cultivated, but only used for grazing. In addition to the theoretical discussion on the local land laws, the report contains a survey of the Ramallah area that compares the amount of state land that was recorded in the land registry during the period of Jordanian rule with the amount of unregistered land in this area which Israel declared government property. The survey revealed dramatic differences between the percentage of land that had been defined as government property by Jordan and the amount that was defined as state land by Israel. For example, the Jordanians completed land settlement (recording in the land registry) for half of the village land of ‘Ein Qinya, in which not one dunam was registered as government property. In comparison, in the case of the lands of the adjacent village Al Janya, which did not undergo land settlement, Israel declared 34 percent of the land as government property and built the Dolev and Talmon settlements on it. In Kafr ‘Aqab, which lies south of Ramallah, in the course of the Jordanian land settlement, 3,240 dunams of land were registered, with only 2.4 dunams (0.1 percent of the area that underwent land settlement) being classified as state land. In comparison, of the land of Kafr ‘Aqab that had not undergone land settlement (2,250 dunams), 1,415 dunams (63 percent of the land that had not undergone land settlement) were classified as government property by Israel and used to build the Kochav Ya'akov settlement. http://m.btselem.org/publications/summaries/201203_under_the_guise_of_legality You completely ignore testimony from Kedumim's security guard, land coordinator, and security chief Kedumim residents who testified before the board said that the Palestinian have no problem reaching their lands. However, a visit to the area reveals a different picture: The guard at Mitzpe Yishai announced that "it is forbidden to allow Arabs in" to the lands abutting the neighborhood. After the Palestinians approached their property on foot, an army patrol arrived and moved them off. When the commander was told they have Civil Administration documents proving they own the land, the commander replied: "Documents don't interest me." The land-takeover method was developed in Kedumim and neighboring settlements during the mid-1990s, after the Oslo Accords, and continues to this day. Zeev Mushinsky, the "land coordinator" at the Kedumim local council, testified as to how it works: Council employees, Mushinsky in this case, would map the "abandoned lands" around the settlements, even if they were outside the council's jurisdiction, with the aim of taking them over. The council would "allocate" the lands to settlers, who would sign an official form stating that they have no ownership claim on the m, and that the council is entitled to evict them whenever it sees fit, in return for compensating them solely for their investment in cultivating the land. Kedumim's former security chief, Michael Bar-Neder, testified that the land "allocation" was followed by an effort to expand the settlement. Bar-Neder said that once the settlers seized the lands, an application would be made to the military commander to declare them state-owned, since under the law covering the West Bank, anyone who does not cultivate his land for three years forfeits ownership of it. http://www.haaretz.com/news/court-case-reveals-how-settlers-illegally-grab-west-bank-lands-1.241487
So are you saying that when israel is respecting the laws in the West Bank, as I showed here, is harassment? Israel declared according to the Laws in the West Bank, as I showed here. I already refered to that. According to your link and sources: Which means that according to Artucle 73 of the Ottoman laws, Israel can object cultivation of a farmer that cultivate miri lands (= state lands) for time period of 10 years. Israel is doing that thing, which means respecting the laws. Or maybe for you, respecting and following laws is illegal? Also the Ottoman laws are applied in the West Bank, which makes Article 78 a law that needs to be followed. And Israel is doing so, as I showed. BTW- this interpretaion wasnt applied, because Jordan used Jewish private lands in the West Bank for her needs (such as Shuafat), according to the Jordanian law. Under the local law (the Ottoman laws are part of the local laws) Israel can object culitivation of miri land by a farmer for 10 years. As Jordan also did between 1948-1967. First of all, in which way you can "establish cultivate right..." on grazing lands? Secondly, grazing land is not culitivated land, because if grazing land was culitivated land, then Israel could object such culitivated as it was described here in Article 78 of the Ottoman laws. So because grazing lands are not cultivated lands, then in the grazing lands, no one can "establish cultivate right in it". That's why this village is still exist near Ramallah. Moreover, each year there is an annual walk from Ramallah to Ein Qiniya to celebrate the spring. As for the village of Al-Janya, it is still existing, and even has high school that serves the local population. This school is called: "Al-Janya Ras KarKar high school" Kfar Aqab is still exist today, and it is located in East Jerusalem. . If Kfar Aqab had not undergo land settlements (2,230 dunams), as you state. Which means that the land of Kfar aqab as you state didnt classified as "private lands" or anything that could prohibid someone else to take it, thus, the Arabs there dont have the documents that will prove that this land was classified for them. That was of course, after a decede of cultivation of Kdumim resident. Which means that according to Article 78 of the Ottoman laws, the land is no more could be classified as private land", and it is "state lands". The man that cultivated this land, was doing so for decede, which means that according to Article 78 of the Ottoman laws, the land is no more could be classified as private land", and it is "state lands". As it was written in the Article: The OP stated that israel can use a land that didnt got cultivated 3 years from the 10, which is according to the laws in the West Bank, and which I showed that here: which makes what Israel did in the case of Kdumim that been presented in this thread, is only rainforcing the fact that Israel respecting the laws. Because after all the land that issued in the case of Kdumim was cultivated by Kedumim's inhabitant for 12 years, which means that if the land was an Arab land, then it means that according to the laws the OP presented, Israel can consider that land as state land, and issued it to Kdumim.
It is a 100% fact that Israel changed the way cultivated land in the West Bank is registered, so that its much more difficult for Arab farmers to register land. This is contrary to the Neo-Zionist claim that Israel is enforcing pre-existing Jordanian and British law in the WB. its also a 100% fact that the IDF routinely harrasses Arab farmers and keeps them off their cultivated land for 3 years, so that they are forced to give it up.
You cannot claim property seized from your relatives/ancestors? How do you explain Germans giving back art to grand children of holocaust victims?
Exactly, see how stupid and useless international law is? It only applies when the nations powerful enough to enforce them wish them to apply. So there can be no right or wrong, only national interests and geopolitics. What I envision is a 3 state solution, with Gaza continuing to be isolated like N Korea, and West Bank with quasi independence acting as low skill labor for growing Israeli economy.
that was within the last 70 years. Israel was taken from the Jews almost 2,000 years ago. there is a common sense statute of limitations, on reclaiming conquered land. ....or do you think the Native Americans should reclaim Manhattan?
