The double standard of (many) athiests

2 Timothy 3:12 (in the last days)....
Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted


Why atheists* are losing ever more credibility.

* I am going to begin using an 'a' prefix to indicate an 'activist atheist' meaning an individual that makes attacking Christianity their goal in life. I do a similar thing with Islam or Muslim to indicate a Muslim, or the form of Islam prone to or that condones violence. Most Atheists and Muslims are good moral people and I want to be sure the good guys know I am not referring to them.

It seems the prophesy* of Christians being detested in the latter days is being fulfilled. One needs only to do a search on the net to see all sorts of debacles that 'activist atheists' and 'unbelievers use to pursue their agenda' of attacking Christians and religion. By that I mean there is a free for all hate fest occurring on internet and to a lesser extent in other venues of communication against Christianity. Have a look at a thread started by a non Christian member and follow the debate that follows. The debate is vetted by questions that often, nearly always seem to come from the same anti-God playbook. The meaningless questions/statements that activist atheists* post are designed specifically to be unanswerable. How can someone ask a theist to provide physical evidence as proof of a being that is non-physical by definition?

How does one use science that employs empiricism as a vital part of its method to prove the existence of a being or an event that is by default atemporal, non- tangible, and non-physical, therefore not provable with the scientific method?***** Even more disturbing is the double standard they impose upon the theism and religion. They seem to think it's ok to demand that we theists provide evidence for Gods existence meet their chosen definitions of what is valid evidence, but do not allow the same standards to apply to their own claims and evidences! The (above) is why I am losing the desire to debate the usual suspects on religious or metaphysical issues. Its not because I don't desire debate, I do. However, much of the time what we have been engaging in isn't debate, its a hurtful spectacle.

relevant scripture and excerpts thereof at top and bottom of page (in blue font);

John 15:19; If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

John 15:18 “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God.

Mark 13:13And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.



NOTES; ***** I am working on another thread to explain how science uses the same methods that they deny to metaphysical (ie religious) claims to prove or lend evidence to their very own claims, hypothesis and even theories. What I mean by that is the scientific method have no direct empirical evidence to support them.



reva

 

If christians would stop persecuting specific groups they don't like, and there are many, then perhaps the persecution you think happens to christians will stop.
One reaps what one sows.

 

That is true. I have said that a leader like a preacher etc can do more for the devil than the devil could do for himself on a good day if he does not teach and preach what is in the bible instead of what is inside his or her head. That said most Christians do not persecute anyone, and the ones that do are not following Gods word.

Neither side should make blanket statements against each other. Those that attack Christians have a responsibility not to judge Christians by a few bad apples. Lastly, the persecution here is mostly verbal, the true persecution will never stop, scripture is correct. The worst persecution is in far away places. That type of madness includes christians being beheaded for their beliefs. Its amazing that prophesy written thousand or more years ago is correct down to the method of punishment. reva

 

If I were to walk up to you and claim I was the son of a God who created the universe, would you just take that claim at face value or would you require some type of extraordinary evidence?

If I were to walk up to you and say I don't believe in Gods, what evidence is required? I would hardly be making an extraordinary claim that required proof.

Is that really a double standard?

 

If you were to walk up to me and claim you were the son of God, then I'd reply with, "Hey! Why aren't you in Egypt right now?" and "Hey! Where's your grape stained robes?"

 

"Activist" atheists aren't really atheists. They are anti theists.

 

Well, I shall be looking forward to the thread you're working on. I'm a bit confused as to which claims with no empirical evidence you're referring to. It is not impossible that many of the people you refer to already don't believe them. Similarly, you might find that I have called atheists and theists alike out on some of the claims in this forum, so I hope you do not consider me biased in that sense.

Evidence is the standard way of believing anything (although most of the time, the issue is a lot less infected, so people don't bother categorising it). Is there an apple in the fridge? Go check. If you cannot use this, you are left in the dark. Is there an apple in a fridge you can't look in? Don't know.

If I then say "How am I supposed to find out whether there is an apple in the fridge without looking at it". The resolution to the issue is that you can't. Is that unfair to the idea that there might be an apple in the fridge? Maybe, maybe not, but reality does not owe us a way of finding out.

However, I suspect, stop me if I'm wrong, that your mention of claims without evidence you mention is with respect to ideas conforming to there not being a god, rather than us being unaware of there being a god. This is a response to the fact that if we don't trust the claims about religions, then there is an infinite number of infinitely diverse answers to what the truth is. This leaves us unable to prepare for any alternative (other than completely arbitrarily). However, it does leave us able to consider the parts of life that are not affected of the spiritual truths, such as the material world. One wouldn't claim that the material world is all there is, but it's a part we can work with. If we can't look in the fridge, we might as well eat from the fruit bowl instead.

 

I got to tell you, those persecuting gays and women's choice on pregnancy are not a few bad apples. Most every christian church, at least in USA, denounce them. And most all members of the church do so as well.

There has never been a prophecy that has come true yet. If is always discovered and interpreted after the fact.

 

Seems a lot of "Christian" bloggers have a double standard....

They claim to "believe in the Bible" and quote certain passages from it...

but if you ask for a specific verse they NEVER will quote it.

 

By in large you make some good points, but I disagree with the prophesy as all large groups of people have its detractors.

 

I don't like your definition of an 'activist' atheist. One can be an activist for atheism, or Islam, without being an attack dog, or condoning violence. I actively endorse a firm separation of church and state, and actively work towards better acceptance of atheism and agnosticism. I don't have to promote intolerance, to advocate for tolerance. . Many many Muslims, active in efforts to end bigotry against those holding to Islamic faith, use words, only words and use them to persuade, not incite. They are activists as well. I prefer the term 'anti-theist' to describe different agenda than the promotion of atheism as a reasonable and respectable alternative.

As for your reluctance to engage anti-theists, I normally think it wise not to repeat dysfunctional dynamics once you have sensed a pattern.

 

Sorry Rev, Christianity has had a free pass for 1700 years, and thoroughly abused it. Time's up.

You should be thanking your god that active anti-theists use words and education, instead of the methods Christians have traditionally used.

 

Atheists are not all one group, just like you would not want to be grouped with all Theists

Science is Science... Religion is Religion.....

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I suggest to all fledgling reverends, pastors, or preachers just getting started… Have a backup plan. We could always use more dentists and hygienists in the world.

 

I would ask for some evidence if you or a stranger claimed they are God. If you could produce none I would probably reject your claim. There is evidence to support the existence of God, but as far as I know there is no evidence that supports you etc are God. Questions such as where did the universe come from that btw are not answered by science with conclusive empirical evidence, can be answered by metaphysics/religion. reva

 

I have not witnessed what you are claiming, meaning most Christians are civil easy going people. I know, because I am a reverend therefore its my day job to know what is going on in the world as it relates to Christianity. Also, I have been around the world and all over these states a few times in my decades as a messenger, so please forgive me for disagreeing with your opinions and seemingly made up claims. Made up at least when it comes to frequency and the percentage of Christians that you accuse of hate crimes etc. I don't know where you get your information but it sounds fabricated or a guess, or maybe you have been the victim of brainwashing via propaganda. Lastly satanic influence may be in play, so please at least provide source material for any claims you make?

In any case the problem is the issues you raise like abortion isn't Christians its abortion! People like you make wild un-sourced claims that the overwhelming majority of Christians are shooting at abortion drs and bombing abortion mills that aer the problem. Yes as I said there are radical offshoots like the AOG that actually DO bomb abortion mills and target abortion Drs. However they are in the EXTREME minority and are hated by most Christians more than they hate atheists. Actually we don't hate anyone rather Christians hate the sin not the person committing the sin.

So, additionally I might very well think all abortion is murder (I do), and that all abortion should be outlawed (I don't) however that is my right! Its my right just as its your right to feel some abortions are morally correct. However, if you or I do something illegal that is crossing the line, and becomes an criminal act. That means if I decide to shoot someone invested in the abortion mill that is my bad and its criminally and morally wrong. There is a difference between persecution and disagreeing with someone I hope you learn that some day.

Again you make a pure fabrication, I know because its my day job to know those things. Drop the 'always' and 'never' and maybe you will be better received and believed amongst your peers. Do you know your (all) absolutes are considered logical fallacies? Why is that....think about it ? Lastly, it's misinformation like the kind you are spreading and claims such as yours containing nearly no truth that is causing hate. That alone proves my OT as mostly correct. Btw the prophesy I provided was written a thousand or more years ago but the persecution described is occurring today, so how was it "always discovered and interpreted after the fact". Or, how did the prophesy of Israel becoming a nation in one day which it did in 1948 happen if your claims are true?

reva

 

Swensson, sorry for taking the others out of turn. I began a reply to your post. However answering your logical assessments etc, calls for more brain cells than I can muster this morning, however I will post my reply/rebuttal (not much rebutting lol) soon. reva

 

Lol ROLF! Really?? A free pass? Lol. Forgive me but I am reminded of a poster where a tiny mouse was shooting a bird to an elephant. In that story you character isn't not the elephant! being the major or near major religion for that long takes more than a free pass. It takes sacrifice. It takes faith. It takes love. It takes far more than most non believers know.

Another statement born from pure unadulterated ignorance, or another case of brain washing? Anyway to correct your statements of ignorance, Christians have traditionally protected themselves. Yes, in any long history that spans more than ten hundred yeas stretching into the during bronze age (Jesus was prophesier in the old testament) or cultures long ago no one was Lilly white and nice kissy, kissy types. If you were lightweights well put it this way, only those protected by God, ie the Christians would survive as a group (ie the meek and weak).

Another fact most of the brain washed western educated people don't know; The crusades began after over 300 years of Muslim aggression and the pope had enough, ordering the first and maybe the only righteous crusade. But when someone has to resort to ancient history to dig up dirt it should be obvious they have NO case at all! Its ridiculous that anyone would be stupid enough to beleive such comparisons. Lastly radical Islam is still using the same methods that they have since they invented the religion. Fuss at them.

reva

 

Not all reverends preach as a day job. I don't because I have stage fright. And I think there are too many preachers etc. Gods work such as feeding those in need are much more in demand than teachers (reverends). So some time ago I decided to go another route. Today I own two christian humanitarian missions and a church for tax purposes all 501c entities. Some of us know what is coming down the pike and are more like Michael the archangel than mother Teresa. So no worries, hey if I were a dentist I would love to do a root canal on you and to show my christian attitude is intact it would be a freebie!
reva

- - - Updated - - -

a

Thanks for at least being civil, however I would ask you to please read my thread before wrongly criticizing ? I refer to this a cut from my OT; " * I am going to begin using an 'a' prefix to indicate an 'activist atheist' meaning an individual that makes attacking Christianity their goal in life. I do a similar thing with Islam or Muslim to indicate a Muslim, or the form of Islam prone to or that condones violence. Most Atheists and Muslims are good moral people and I want to be sure the good guys know I am not referring to them".

reva


btthegreat, I also apologize to you for skipping your reply, I just didn't see it when my eyes glazed over and began foaming at the mouth after seeing article about how great Gay rights are....yes that is sarcasm...reva

 

An analogy I will have this box, inside I put a religious adult, okay that's simple. And this box can connect to similar boxes into a big box calling it their holy hangout.

Outside the adults children, community, schools, libraries, politics and so forth calling that the public area.

Now as long as the religion stays IN the box as an Atheist I have no issues at all the religious person can believe anything they want no matter what that is their right. You start going OUTSIDE of the box but stay inside the holy hangout its also fine its again your beliefs and you share them with those in other boxes. My issue is you getting outside both of them and foisting this stuff on easily impressionable children who are wired by nature to accept what authority figures say if not they would die pretty fast and then on everything else.

I get it most faiths promote bringing people into their respect boxes with few exceptions and hang outs and you feel its important to foist this on us who either are not armed to use reason to decide for themselves (children and young adults before legal age) and those who find it disruptive to society as a negative influence. Spillover is going to happen but it should be encouraged by law and I would say a Constitutional change to be minimized to a great degree hopefully. And yes I would not keep this easy I would say indoctrination in a religion on a child is child abuse at any point it becomes overly restrictive, psychologically harmful (telling them about hellfire etc.) and other markers and the children removed if it continues to foster care with the parents paying the costs. For the rest of us speaking negatively in public to hurt others feelings, advance discord or other things should be banned and any political speaking out by minister or faith authority figure should cause the faith to be fined. And I would remove all tax exemptions for property unless its use can be declared a charity under secular rules this includes the sanctuary, by not taxing them you give more money to therefore promote the faith which violates the 1st Amendment.

I'm reasonable if you in your box and holy hangouts want to ,as adults, freely choosing to do so join in some religious belief its fine and you can talk about it in public to other adults as long as your civil about it.

 

"There has never been a prophecy that has come true yet. If is always discovered and interpreted after the fact. "

except self fulfilling prophecies... or those so vague anything could fill them....

 

can one just declare there property is a church or humanitarian missions if they do not preach.... get the tax free status?

I think you then are referring to anti-theists, anti-atheists, anti-Muslims, anti-Christians, ect.....now I think it's normal to be anti-religious fanaticism.... like being anti-crime... ect...

..

 

What if it happened 1950 years before you were born and the only "evidence" provided was a book slapped together 1900 years ago?

 

When Hal Lindsey first came up with his "Late Great Planet Earth" stuff in the 70s, he claimed that part of the invading force that would attack Israel in the Battle of Armegeddon would be the Soviet Union.....

then when the USSR collapsed in 1990.....he switched and claimed it would be the Arabs.....

no doubt now, with Putin, he's changed it back to Russia and ONLY citing his original 1970s version....and not the 1990s revision of his "analysis."


Also, the European Union was supposed to be the "10 headed dragon-beast" of Revelations....because it was going to have 10 members....

unfortunately for the End Timers, the EU now has 28 members....so the "dragon" appears to have grown 18 more heads than St. John said he'd have.

 

no, they can't. every religion has a different explanation - so clearly you're wrong.