Netanyahu calls for no pre-conditions for peace talks

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/22/w...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

Speaking at a joint news conference with France’s foreign minister, Laurent Fabius, who was visiting the region to advance the French-led initiative, Mr. Netanyahu said: “Peace will only come from direct negotiations between the parties, without preconditions. It will not come from U.N. resolutions that are sought to be imposed from the outside.”

This means Netanyahu has given up on his stupid pre-condition that the Palestinians must recognize Israel as a Jewish state. This was thrown in as a last-minute wrench to ruin talks.

Good to see Bibi came to his senses. No pre-conditions.

 

But he also knows that 'no preconditions' means the Palestinians cannot mandate the cessation of the Israeli expansion of settlements either. It also means neither side can mandate the cessation of violence in any way.

I think preconditions wouldn't work anyway (history seems to have demonstrated this). At the same time, I think a conference without preconditions wouldn't work either, because the negotiations' success or failure don't seem to have anything to do with preconditions. They have to do with the diametrically opposed belief systems, culture, (and propaganda) that both sides hold dear.

I honestly don't know what anyone can do to solve this. If I had solutions, I would happily offer them up, but I am too ignorant of both sides' history and beliefs to be able to offer any sort of educated debate.

 

i think, most likely, Bibi was just talking out of his ass.....once again.

 

If anyone thinks Israel is sincere in the land for peace framework or any framework, well lets talk derivatives in your stock portfolio. I have some great ideas for your 401.

 

Yet it has been the other side that has never been sincere.

 

Israel has been sincere with land for peace deals at least under Labor and Kadima under Olmert. This was shown by Taba summit ending with a joint statement
"The Israeli and Palestinian delegations conducted...deep and practical talks with the aim of reaching a permanent and stable agreement between the two parties...Given the circumstances and time constraints, it proved impossible to reach understandings on all issues, despite the substantial progress that was achieved in each of the issues discussed...The sides declare that they have never been closer to reaching an agreement and it is thus our shared belief that the remaining gaps could be bridged with the resumption of negotiations following the Israeli elections. The two sides take upon themselves to return to normalcy and to establish [a] security situation on the ground through the observation of their mutual commitments in the spirit of the Sharm e-Sheikh memorandum. The negotiation teams discussed four main themes: refugees, security, borders and Jerusalem, with a goal to reach a permanent agreement that will bring an end to the conflict between them and provide peace to both people...The Taba talks conclude an extensive phase in the Israeli-Palestinian permanent status negotiations with a sense of having succeeded in rebuilding trust between the sides...The two sides express their gratitude to President Hosni Mubarak...They also express their thanks to the European Union...The sides declare that they have never been closer to reaching an agreement and it is thus our shared belief that the remaining gaps could be bridged with the resumption of negotiations following the Israeli elections...."

The Kadima government under Olmert was sincere with talks that were closer than david/taba talks. Both sides admitted that they were months away from a peace deal. Abbas in these talks softened PA demands which before didn't accept any settlement blocs staying with Israel nor with any of the Israeli neighborhoods in East Jerusalem, or any Israeli presence over Temple Mount. Abbas agreed to Israel annexing all of settlement blocs except for Ariel which sits on fertile land reserves and Har Homa in East Jerusalem which was set up during Oslo Accord, and international trustee consortium over temple mount that included Israel. Abbas also agreed to demilitarized state and on principle agreeing to a limited symbolic right of return. Although Olmert did come from Likud after Sharon created Kadima Likud governments have never been for land for peace regarding West Bank with Bibi admitting that he helped stop the Oslo Accords. Some believe that Ariel Sharon would have made peace and that Gaza disengagement was for land for peace deal. Sharon believed in unilateralism and didn't negotiate with PA including when Abbas took over after Arafat died. Beside Sharon's career which includes actions like the Qibya and Bureij massacre, the most he would have offered even if he went to negotiating table would have been everything east of fence except perhaps Jordan valley. On that big assumption any Palestinian leader would reject considering Sharon would have not offered any part of East Jerusalem including Arab neighborhoods annexed to Jerusalem after 67 war.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/magazine/13Israel-t.html?_r=0
http://www.redressonline.com/2010/0...anyahu-i-deceived-us-to-destroy-oslo-accords/

On the Palestinian side, Arafat was a questionable partner. Beside PA being one of the most corrupt institutions ever created siphoning billions from international aide to Arafat and his cronies, Arafat did violate Oslo Accords in several ways. The police force was much larger and contained weapons they weren't suppose to have. Arafat also never fully gave up violence with officials from PA and Hamas admitting that Arafat planned second intifada. Dennis Ross has described Arafat as" have never met an Arab leader who trusts Arafat or has anything good to say about him in private. Almost all Arab leaders have stories about how he has misled or betrayed them. Most simply wave their hands dismissively when examples of his betrayal of commitments are cited—almost as if they are saying, “We know, we know.” The Saudis, in particular, saw his alignment with Iraqi President Saddam Hussein in 1991 as proof of his perfidy" Abbas while not perfect with some incitement in PA media, he is a much better partner than Arafat was with current Shin Bet head Yoram Cohen saying Abbas is not interested in violence or a third intifada. As mentioned above, Abbas was also months away from deal with Olmert. Also, head of NGO Palestinian Media Watch: Itamar Marcus was unable to prove in Tel Aviv district court that there was a policy of deliberate incitement in PA media. The judge described
“Marcus’s expert-witness testimony is very biased and very deficient. It does not cover all the mass media with a footprint in the Palestinian Authority, but only some of them, and even then it actually highlights those which are less significant in terms of their reach – the newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadida. The expert-witness testimony totally ignores articles which do not support the desired conclusion, such as articles supporting a dialogue and peace. The testimony includes quotes from articles where there is no incitement, but expression of opinions, it ignores the citing of the Israeli press in Palestinian media. But most importantly and above all – it relies on a handful of items 76 articles, which do not all contain incitement, out of tens of thousands of items and articles published in the Palestinian media during the 15 years studied, and in my opinion it is not possible to establish a claim of a policy incitement on a handful of articles. Furthermore, the inferable conclusion by relying on the 76 articles submitted is that the other tens of thousands articles that were published during the examined period did not engaged in incitement.”
http://www.factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000157-print.html
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2005/09/in-a-ruined-country/304167/
http://972mag.com/judge-dismisses-credibility-of-palestinian-media-watch-testimony/78900/
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...as-not-responsible-for-inciting-terror-382145

 

in other words we get everything we want or no peace

 

This is a copy of a comment I made in the Scams and Con games section at Skepticforum.com.
Things haven't changed a bit since then despite my hope that Obama would stand up to Netanyahu.

Posts: 3687Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am
Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Post by Tom Palven » Wed May 25, 2011 10:56 am

One Associated Press headline in today's Times-Union, Jacksonville, FL, is "Netanyahu says he's ready to compromise." Right, when hell freezes over. He made the same promises that were made to Jimmy Carter, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, and Obama, earlier, and his likely strategy will probably be to try to help elect another right-wing Reagan type. He is quoted as saying "Israel will never give up its quest for peace." Actually, Israel will never give up trying to drive all the Palestinians out of the West Bank. His Likud Party platform says no Palestinian state, and expand Israel to the Jordan River.

But, IMHO it's unlikely that Obama will allow himself to misled and then bushwhacked by Netanyahu twice in a row. Obama is as tough and savvy as Netanyahu and Obama's trump card could well be not having Susan Rice veto the recognition of a Palestinian state by the UN. The battle, and test of wills, goes on.


Netanyahu's new bs about "peace talks" should go in the "Funny pages and jokes" section.

 

I agree that Netanyahu has NEVER wanted peace.

 

Balloney...There is not a single country in the world that wants more Peace than Israel!

One of the Arab preconditions are as follow.
a) Israel is an usurper and not the true natives of the Jewish land in history.

Now Israel believes that there was <never> in history an independent Palestinian State.

Me think...
That the Arabs can have three centers of <self determination> in Israel and no more!

Another left wing idiocy unveiled here... Your Obama is the last person together with Carter to know anything about international history and Political demeanor!

 

The history of negotiations is replete with Palestinian double crossing yet the angry left is only focused on Israel. One wonders why?

 

Oslo Accords called for the status of the territories to NOT be altered.

and yet, Israel poured in 200,000 more settlers, confiscated more land, etc..

 

When are you going to stop with your prevarications???

Israel is a free country and people move freely, Jews get married they need housing, they need schools, they need shopping etc.,

This is part of the <land> of Israel that we won in battle with the Jordanians, in the interim we have signed a Peace Treaty with Jordan... There are no such demands from their part for this is part of the Jewish Patrimony called <Judea and Samaria> two Jewish names, go open any bible and read on these two sections as a proof of ownership...

<Rule 2>

In a Communist Country everything is <regimented> and this is where you can get a better answer.

 

hence Israel changed the status of the WB, in violation of the Oslo Accords

 

Then build in Israel proper ie Israel that is recognized by most countries in the world and only in settlement blocs which will stay with Israel in any agreement with PA agreeing in earlier talks to Israeli annexation of all except Ariel which sits on fertile land reserves. The bible or any religious text is not any basis for ownership of territory or international law As mentioned before the ancient Jewish states haven't existed for thousands thus have no legal relevance to the West Bank. The settlements didn't violate letter of Oslo Accord but it did violate spirit of Oslo Accord. For the Palestinians even though the Oslo Accord was meant to end the occupation the symbol of occupation the settlements increased during Bibi's government with then foreign minister Sharon stating "Everybody has to move, run and grab as many [Palestinian] hilltops as they can to enlarge the [Jewish] settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them"; settlements also increased during Barak's government along with actions like house demolition made the Palestinians view the occupation was only deepening.

 

My answer is simple... <There was <never> an independent Palestine in history... thus we do not owe the so called palestinans anything.

 

the international community says otherwise.

- - - Updated - - -

and no, the Jews don't get to own the West Bank "because the Bible says so".

 

How is that a rebuttal? It doesn't change anything I said. The fact is you either have turn Israel into a binational/Arab with state consisting of two people that have been in bitter conflict for many decades or have an apartheid state due to Palestinians that reside in West Bank living under military law when Israelis residing nearby under civil law.

 

The quickest and easiest way to resolve the issues in Israel. Palestinian Territories and Leabanon is for the U.S. to cut off all Monetary Aid to all sides and foce all our Allies to do the same.

You would see peace accords being schedualed within a week!

The fllow of moeny is preventing peace.

AboveAlpha

 

Please do not concern yourself with our problems... In time everything will be fine.

 

this is a free society, and we can discuss everything

 

The US gives Israel billions. And what do they do with it? They ethnic cleanse the WB to enlarge their Jew national. Cut off their money and demand the Arabs to return home as it is their right... or else cut all economic ties and them Israeli Jews will end up their racist practices in a day.

 

I have been to and done JOBS in this art of the world more times than I care to remember.

MONEY MOST STOP FLOWING TO ALL SIDES!!

The U.S. is capable of doing this.

We stop the Arab Leage and we stop sending Money to both the Israeli's and Palestinian's.

We put incredible pressure upon Assad and Iran not to continue to send aid and if they do we intercept the majority of it as it must go through Assad first before it get's to Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad...Fatah...etc.

Fact is....we stop the FLOW OF MONEY.....PEACE TALKS WILL BE HELD WITHIN WEEKS!!!

MONEY is what prevets peace from occurring in this part of the world as Assad takes his cut and so does Hamas, Fatah,....etc....and so do the Israeli Government and Military.

We stop the flow of Monetary Aid.....PEACE BECOMES NECESSARY!!!

Aslong as Monetary Aid keeps flowing in....THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR EITHER SIDE TO WANT PEACE!!!

AboveAlpha

 

True. A boon for the politician who gains it, a huge tax savings for every Israeli and extreme business opportunities.

 

So true as Israel would make up for the economic shortfall by closing all borders and use lethal methods of stopping all outside interference from the territories. Palestinians would find themselves on their own as Israel would not be able to inspect goods being transported into Gaza and the WB and would quickly be forced to rescind their declaration of war, surrender unconditionally and take the destruction of Israel from their official positions.

I'm all for it as it would quicken the peace process.