Cultivating a Hardness of Heart?

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by dridder, Jun 23, 2015.

  1. dridder

    dridder Member

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  2. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    She seems to have fabricated most of that.What a strange woman and what along winded article. Was she paid by the word?.

    Pro choice simply means giving women the right to decide what happens to their bodies without anyone else needing to approve their reasons.

    How each woman feels about it is her own business.

    Having become pregnant through her partner's and her own failure to use a condom, Redman remarks that her friend Judith, who has been trying to find a child to adopt, begs her to carry the pregnancy to term. Judith offers Redman almost every condition a birth-mother could want: “Let me have the baby. You could visit her anytime, and if you ever wanted her back, I promise I would let her go.” Redman does not mention considering this possibility. Thinking, rather, about “My time consumed by the tedious, daily activities that I've always done my best to avoid. Three meals a day. Unwashed laundry….” she schedules her chemical abortion.



    This kind of thing really annoys me. It's not the duty of any women to produce children for other women. Childbirth is hugely life changing.

    Ending a pregnancy and giving up your child for adoption is not the same thing.

    Notice how the author has cherry picked bits out of what Miss Redman actually said at the time to suit her agenda.

    Some women are happy to act as surrogates for other women, which is great - but no woman should feel obliged to do it.

    Now, freedom means that women must be free to choose self or to choose selfishly. Certainly for a woman with fewer economic and social choices than I had—for instance, a woman struggling to finish her higher education, without which she would have little hope of a life worthy of her talents—there can indeed be an obligation to choose self. And the defence of some level of abortion rights as fundamental to women's integrity and equality has been made, rightly and indisputably, by others. A woman's equality in society must give her some irreducible rights unique to her biology, indulging the right to take the life within her life.


    I agree with that. Though I'm not sure what she means about having an obligation to choose self. We always choose self.

    The rest is just padding. Honestly, what's this all about?


    ....In such a world, in which the idea of gender as a barrier has become a dusty artifact, we would probably use a very different language about what would be—then—the rare and doubtless traumatic event of abortion. That language would probably call upon respect and responsibility, grief and mourning. In that world we might well describe the unborn and the never-to-be-born with the honest words of life.

    And in that world, passionate feminists might well hold candlelight vigils at abortion clinics, standing shoulder to shoulder with doctors who work there, commemorating and saying goodbye to the dead.



    Disgusting. There is no way I would have wanted perfect strangers making a fuss about my two miscarriages and pretending to grieve for the embryos that got flushed down the toilet.

    Candlelight vigils..good grief.
     
  3. dridder

    dridder Member

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    You have perfectly displayed what she is talking about; pro choice is creating a hardness of heart.
     
  4. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Or having TWO abortions......


    A ridiculous thread with the typical Anti-Choice admission that they know nothing of humans, human nature or world history....the people who think homosexuality, abortion and smoking dope started in 1960....LOL!
     
  5. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    Rubbish. Pro choice means having compassion and understanding for women.
     
  6. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Regardless of whether the unborn child is painted as a mass of protoplasm or a cute kitten, the hardness of heart the side that opposes abortion shows toward other people's children after they are born makes me not care what their game is when it comes to abortion.
     
    Cady and (deleted member) like this.
  7. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    There is no cultivating a hardness of heart, there is a battle against the control ideology of pro-lifers who want to make pregnancy a punishment for women who have sex, as these pro-lifers have become more and more rampant and deceitful in their emotionally laden drivel, pro-choicers have stood against them using science and the law.

    I feel for every woman who has ever had to make the very hard decision about aborting as much as I feel for the unborn .. however I would never place myself above them by trying to force them either to have an abortion or not ... that is what dictators do.
     
  8. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Ask the average "pro-lifer" how FAR they would go to see an abortion ban enforced.....

    and you eventually hit them contradicting their own rhetoric...IOW, they admit they don't REALLY think "abortion is murder", because they eventually confess they don't want it treated as "murder" if it were illegal....


    OR they begin to show that they would favor a totalitarian police state...a "Womb Gestapo"....to control women's lives to "save the babies."

    In years of blogging on this topic...I've never seen one that didn't fit into those two categories. And here at PF's Abortion Forum, I've seen several (mostly men) who fit into the latter category.

    The OP post is typical of the Orwellian "doublethink" you see, mostly on the political Right, where "oppression" and "tyranny" is individuals, especially women, controlling their own lives...


    while "freedom" and "liberty"....is THEM controlling you and what you do.
     
  9. SteveJa

    SteveJa New Member

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    Pro-Choice has nothing to do with compassion, or understanding for women
     
  10. SteveJa

    SteveJa New Member

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    Abortion should be treated like any other illegal killing aka murder if made illegal.
    It's not about controlling women, or their lives, it is about protecting innocent life. The unborn has committed no crime and does not deserve to be killed simply for being created. At the same time the woman also has not committed a crime and also deserves protections. Which is why I feel the danger to the woman, birth defects that will make life outside the womb impossible, if the fetus is already dead are good exceptions that protect the woman and the unborn.
    I do not support shutting down planned parenthood, I do support shutting down most of their abortion services.
     
  11. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then what is your idea of understanding or compassion for women when they are faced with a devastating unwanted pregnancy?
     
  12. dridder

    dridder Member

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    This wasn't about pro life cultivating a hardness of heart, it was about pro choice cultivating a hardness of heart.

    Do you think the pro choice movement has developed insensitivities to certain groups of women? Some women don't like being told the life they lost was a "non existent, non human, cancerous, raping, abusive, criminal, diseased group of cells". Some women who grieve their abortion choice don't like being told to "get over it" and that they are :making a big deal over nothing". Some women who choose to keep their children don't like being told they are ruining their lives and putting a greater burden on society. some women don't like being told giving a child to a couple who desperately wants one is all a big money making scam and they are better of terminating. Some women don't like being accused of lying for talking openly about their experiences in the abortion industry.

    If the pro choice movement truly is about women's rights, shouldn't they be sensitive to the needs of ALL women, not just the ones who are okay with abortion?
     
  13. Zeffy

    Zeffy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cold hearted is what you would have to be to advocate women be forced to gestate and give birth against their will.
     
  14. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do pro-choicers tell women their fetus was..."non existent,"? Never heard that..."non human,"? nope..." cancerous,"? nope. "raping,"? uh, no..."abusive...criminal... diseased group of cells" No, what are you talking about?

    Do they like being told, "You killed your baby, but God will forgive you"??? "Just repent and help spread His word (our propaganda), and God will forgive you" ???

    That is one HUGE ridiculous straw man.

    And they do. Pro-choice is about supporting the woman's choice, whether it is abortion OR birth.
     
  15. dridder

    dridder Member

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    Again, this is about pro choice not pro life. And pro life do not force anyone to give birth. The pro life movement did not make anyone pregnant in the first place.

    If you're worried about being "forced" into pregnancy, perhaps you need to focus on the cold hearted misogynists who pressure women into not using condoms, or not bothering to check them before use, or not telling women when they broke, or lying to women about using them? Misogynists love the abortion industry; women have to go through an invasive procedure to kill the life inside them, and men can go on getting their penises wet.
     
  16. dridder

    dridder Member

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    These are all things ive heard those in the pro choice movement say to either myself or to pro lifers. Maybe hang out on either a pro choice or pro life facebook page and you'll see it all.
     
  17. dridder

    dridder Member

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    How is it a strawman when its demonstrating the topic; pro choicers are cultivating a hardness of heart. Isnt being insensitive to those who don't abort being hard of heart?
     
  18. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What can't you get about "choice"? It is supportive of either choice a pregnant woman makes for herself.
     
  19. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just because you may "have seen it," that doesn't mean it is something pro-choicers commonly say to women, and certainly not personally to them.
     
  20. dridder

    dridder Member

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    But its not because it does not support the women who choose not to abort. Those women are on their own. If you really supported all womens choices you would be fighting for better adoption processes and access to parental support such as paid parental leave and free child care etc. Why arent the pro choice movement petitioning parliament for paid parental leave? Pro choice is just a nicer way of saying "pro abortion", their main focus on only one choice.
     
  21. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why aren't pro-lifers who would force women to give birth doing those things???
     
  22. dridder

    dridder Member

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    So if thats not common perhaps you should stop spreading the uncommon actions of pro lifers.
    Pro lifers telling mothers to stop mooching off the government happens as often as pro choicers calling a fetus a diseased cancer that needs to be disposed of.
     
  23. dridder

    dridder Member

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    Although i dont identify as pro life, I certainly campaign for these things. And the majority of people i have worked with in foster care and disability support have identified as pro life. The idea pro lifers are women haters is as accurate as the idea pro choicers are baby haters.
     
  24. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    :) Is anyone taking this hard-heartedly serious? Or half-heartedly serious?.....Or not seriously at all......




    I think we should hijack HER thread and discuss weekend plans.........whatcha doin?
     
  25. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps you should stop making false accusations and creating strawmen. Perhaps you only think I'm spreading "the uncommon actions of pro-lifers" because you have no clue how American pro-lifers act.

    Typical in the US.

    Provide one example of that happening.
     

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