Italy: an issue to face

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by TmsBoldro, Jul 26, 2015.

  1. TmsBoldro

    TmsBoldro Newly Registered

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    In these weeks people wondered if European Union would have resisted to the Greek economy's collapse. It did, at least for the moment; but as Political Science student I can't avoid to wonder if we are voluntarily avodinig what could be the next "sick" of Eu crisis: Italy. You know, Greece economy is very small and insignificant respect to the Italian one. With a GDP of 1910,347bn and the second manufacturing of Europe, Italy is passing through a extraordinary sufference, its Capital too lies in state of decay nicely described by this Nyt article. The absence of growth and the galloping unemployment makes the Italy a bad place to invest and live in. The new government led by the young Matteo Renzi has not yet resolved many of the historical problems of the Country: low productivity, none attraction for foreign investors, the control of policy parties in the most strategic italian companies, criminal organizations and a widespread corruption and, above all, a giant public debt (2000bn, 130% of GDP) and malfunctioning bureaucracy. The new labour market recently approved, the Job Act, had some small results: in six months the unmeployment rate decreases from 13% to 12,6%. It's not enough. It's clear, so what we're wondering in these days is: what if Italy becomes the new Greece? Which consequences for Eu? Which ones for the United States and global economy?

    Ps: it's a lot of time that I follow this forum, today I took the courage to write my first post. I hope you'll forgive my English.
     
  2. DavidFerreira

    DavidFerreira New Member

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    I'll forgive your english, but you need to forgive mine too.. :cool:

    You, Italian people, need to look to Portugal and Greece example, to choice a path.
    Greece- A left-wing party took control and led Greece to destruction.
    Portugal- A right-wing party took control and led Portugal to a good place. Of course that it isn't perfect, but Portugal is growing.

    We- portuguese, spanish, greek and italians- need to pray (secretaly) to a rupture in European Union. These four contries need to be together to face Germany and France.

    There is going to be a lot of consequences for EU. Not just political or economics, but also social. Because the problem that Italy is facing with the refugees. I think that Italy would be a bigger problem than Greece. I didn't response to your question, I know that. But I wanted to leave this thoughts.
     
  3. Red

    Red Active Member

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  4. DavidFerreira

    DavidFerreira New Member

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    But the cause of such massive unemployment isn't the actual government. The last government of PS (Socialist Party) is the cause of this massive unemployment. Of couse that we are still feeling its effect. Look at this: http://www.pordata.pt/Portugal/Taxa+de+desemprego+total+e+por+sexo+(percentagem)-550

    unemployment
    2004- 6,6
    2005- 7,6

    PS (Socialist Party) (took the government in setember/october 2005)
    2006- 7,6
    2007- 8,0
    (PS won again in 2009) 2008- 7,6
    2009- 9,4
    2010- 10,8

    (PSD/CDS-PP took the government in setember/october of 2011)
    2011- 12,7
    2012- 15,5
    2013- 16,2
    2014- 13,9


    I think that you can see the difference. Of couse that in 2013 it was a catastrophe. But know for the first time (excluding 2007->2008) it is decreasing. In 2011 we signed an an economic and financial adjustment programme. In that way, we needed to cut in some things. And that's the reason of that massive unployment in 2013. Before of 2011 we had, for example, more Public workers that we needed and that we could support. And we cut in that things.

    Sorry for my english:frown:
     
  5. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most of Italy's exports remain within the EU or go to China, so I do not see this in or out thing having any great relevance to the US. The US main long-term concerns with the EU seem to have to do with Germany's export economy. The EU orbits Germany in many ways economically. The Germans might boast that we are jealous of our competition, but the concerns are that the lack of more even distribution of wealth in Germany combined with an underdeveloped domestic consumption makes it and the rest of the EU more vulnerable to recession than it/they otherwise could be.
     
  6. Red

    Red Active Member

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    Not everything that happened to the Portuguese economy in 2008 was due to the policies of the Portuguese government at the time.

    Your figures show a small recovery six years after the global financial crisis, in the fourth year of the current administration - and it's already gone into reverse.
     
  7. DavidFerreira

    DavidFerreira New Member

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    Yeah, I know that PS isn't the only cause. But for some reason the Prime Minister of that time (José Socrates, PS) is arrested and under-investigation. It is going into reverse because the government is reducing cuts, maybe because we are going to have elections in October.

    But we need to admit that the socialist's ideologies of PS contributed to the failure of Portugal's economy. The socialist's ideology is: "We spend the money that we have and the money that we don't have". Following this ideologies nothing good can happen.
     
  8. Red

    Red Active Member

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    Think about it.

    What is capitalism? It is raising funds to invest in the hope of a return on investment - "spending money that we don't have", in other words.
     
  9. DavidFerreira

    DavidFerreira New Member

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    But the difference is that in capitalism after we invest, sometimes we are going to have a return and sometimes not.
    In Socialism rarely we are going to have a return, because they invest in things that are not going to bring them a return. And Socialism defends a classless society that is impossible and unfair.
     
  10. Red

    Red Active Member

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    Why are you worrying about the inequity of equality if it cannot happen?
     
  11. DavidFerreira

    DavidFerreira New Member

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    I don't believe that a classless society is possible but I believe that it is our duty to minify the differences. But we live in a real world not in a fairy tales.

    Think about it: I study very hard and because of my hard work I get a good job were I receive like 5.000€. Do you think that my neighbor, that had not study because he didn't want to, and he don't try to get a good job, should receive the same as me? Of course not.

    YOU SHOULD RECEIVE WHAT YOU WORKED FOR!

    We, right-wings' parties, don't believe in a classless society, but we believe that we should have an equal opportunities. And then is your choice if you want to work hard, knowing that you are going to be rewarded in the future, or you want to live an easy life.

    Anyway, I respect who thinks that a classless society is possible.
     
  12. Pork_Butt

    Pork_Butt Active Member

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    It's a cycle, capitalism to socialism, then back to capitalism. In socialism, there is always the upper government class, with luxurys and privelige, and to worker class, with pretty much nothing, because the fruits of his labor are taken and enjoyed by the upper government class.:flagus:
     

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