Arab illegal building on lands that Jews bought

For the past several years while Obama in the current American administration is calling for the stop of building settlements in the West Bank, an American organization. USAID has been helping develop sections of Jerusalem including on properties owned by Jews.
Three examples for such development is Qalandiya, Kfar Akeb and Samir Amis- all three were settled by Jews prior to 1948 and which the JFN bought.

In Kfar Akeb there is a sign which states in English:

According to officials in Israel’s Housing Ministry, Arabs first constructed facilities illegally in Qalandiya and Kfar Akeb between 1948 and 1967- the time of the Jordanian rule.There is also illegal building in Shuafat that has estimate value of 3 Million dollers. Meanwhile not the Israel's Housing Ministary nor the JFN are doing something to stop such illegal building on Jewish lands.

Source: http://www.wnd.com/2010/10/213761/

 

"What do people mean when they say that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel?

"You can see in the video below: Israel is colonizing the entire eastern half of the city and the supposed future Palestinian 'capital' is far away and behind a 26-foot-high concrete separation wall.

"The guide in the video is Jeff Halper of the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions.

"We’re standing on a hill on the eastern side of the city, looking north and east at Palestinian neighborhoods..."

"Some of the highlights of the video: You will see the billboard for an Israeli settlement right below us being built inside the Palestinian neighborhood of Jebel Muhaber. The billboard features an appeal for American Jews to buy here. The colony is called Nof Zion, the vista of Zion." - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/09/see-colonized-jerusalem-the-capital-of-israel#sthash.RI7cmROb.dpuf
- See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/09/see-colonized-jerusalem-the-capital-of-israel#sthash.RI7cmROb.dpuf

Zionists will not tolerate a non-Jewish population of more than 20% of all people living between the River and the sea, yet the Zionists also refuse to allow non-Jews to have a vote in deciding who writes the laws they live under.

Jewish state or democratic state?

 

All the above is unsupported rubbish, I live in Jerusalem and it is the Capital of the Jews since time immemorial... Ask yourself when was an INDEPENDENT Palestinian state been overrun by Jews... Who was the PM of this entity and, why should this be the role of 67 years old Israel to create as yet another <fifth columnist Arab state> in the heart of the Jewish Patrimony?

 

How is anything he said wrong? Jerusalem historically consisted of the old city part of Jerusalem which is composed of four old quarters(Jewish,Christian, Muslim, and Armenian). There were some expansions during 19th century and under British mandate such as establishment of the Russian compound. After 67 war Jerusalem was annexed(which no country recognized) its municipal borders expanded to include 28 Palestinian villages. The Palestinians in East Jerusalem like in West Bank face building restrictions with Israeli neighborhoods like Ramot, Neve Yaakov, East Talpiot, and Gilo enclosing Palestinian neighborhoods. The Israeli NGO Ir Amim notes " The Municipality and other government authorities planned around Palestinian communities, effectively trapping them. Areas that could have accommodated Palestinian growth were expropriated for Israeli neighborhoods and public infrastructure. Similarly, in the name of preserving the city&#8217;s rural character, undeveloped areas were declared open landscapes or parks in which construction was prohibited. Other barriers invoked by the planning process included the following: insufficient space allocation for Palestinian communities to develop infrastructure and public buildings, difficulty in managing private land that had been held for generations and was thus owned by multiple families, and the mistrust with which the Palestinians regarded the Israeli government. Finally, bureaucratic procedural delays were such that any large-scale plans for East Jerusalem were delayed for years and seldom came to fruition.
Limiting planned growth stymied not only the Palestinian population but also the work of city planners. The Palestinian population faced&#8212;as it does today&#8212;a serious housing shortage. Because Israeli law offers no outlets to address this problem, &#8220;illegal construction&#8221; has become virtually the only way Palestinian residents can address the housing crisis in their communities. "
http://www.ir-amim.org.il/en/issue/Urban-Planning

Since the 1980's in Palestinian neighborhoods like Silwan Palestinian property has been seized under absentee property law which organizations like Elad and Ateret Cohanim use it to transfer property to Israelis often resulting in their Palestinian tenants being evicted. This is very hypocritically since it amounts to right of return to Jews in Jerusalem since some of these properties were Jewish before the war but were settled by Palestinian refugees after 1948 war through the Jordanian Custodian of Enemy Property(Israelis also did after 48 war with Jews fleeing/expelled from Arab countries after 48 war settled in Palestinian towns after end of 48 war neither side should have right of return especially when it results in people getting evicted).
http://www.ir-amim.org.il/en/issue/settlements-and-national-parks

No one questions that Jerusalem that Jerusalem is important to Jews(it is important to all three Abrahamic religions although more to Judaism than the others due to the Western Wall and since the world Jerusalem itself is not in the Koran), however as noted above the Jerusalem of today is not the same as in ancient times since its borders only consisted of the old city in ancient times.

No one is saying there has been a Palestinian state. Palestine historically was ruled by various empires/caliphates, with nationalism a very recent concept in the middle east. The fact is that Palestinian are a different group with different culture than Israelis risking a Yugoslavia situation if Israel annexed West Bank especially when for decades both sides have been in bitter conflict against each other.

You either have a bi-national state(by giving everyone Israeli citizenship in West Bank making Israel bi-national state) or apartheid state(by Palestinians under military law while nearby Israelis under civil law) if you stay in West Bank. Israeli experts like Amos Yadlian who have proposed to negotiate with PA if negotiations fail than withdraw from most of West Bank is the best solution since keeps Israel as a Jewish democratic state.
(in advance if you cite Caroline Glick that Israel can keep West Bank and stay as a Jewish and democratic state Glick is using a very flawed study that demography experts including Israelis don't believe in)
http://www.politicalforum.com/middle-east/415083-caroline-glick.html

 

On borders consisted of the old city in ancient times. In ancient times that consisted of the Jewish quarter which at its perk during second temple was 0.8 square miles and since the 16th century the borders of Jerusalem consisted of the old city.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem#Ancient_period

 

Arabs cant vote?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_List

 

Excuse me, what happened in Jerusalem including in the Jewish section between 1947-1967 ?

What was the last time that Jerusalem was freely ruled by its own native population and not a foreign occupier ? and since when did the rule over Jerusalem switched sides peacefully ?


Thanks.

 

We have liberated Judea and Samaria together with Jerusalem from the yoke of the so called Jordanians who held these areas for 19 years wanted to annex them and only the UK and Pakistan recognized this illegal annexation... not a single one country of the Arab league recognized that also.

Sooooooooooooo, what we liberated in a war is ours if you like that or not.
Now I suggest to the Arab antagonists to swear allegiance to Israel and its laws since these people under the false nomenclature of 'Palestinians' were never independent, they lived on the land... and since those that have a free ride on a ship, have no right to steer it, I suggest they pack and leave if they do not want to live with us.

All in all it is not the Jews rebuilding their home that is the problem but rather the <fifth columnists that are constantly trying to undermine the process>...

 

You were refugees and just look at how you treat your hosts.............

 

a) First and foremost they are treated like all Israelis, some of them became millionaires... something that they never could have reached in any of the surrounding Arab states not even in Saudi Arabia, not the emirates including Kuwait.

b) All Israelis were not refugees although <one million Jews> of the <ARAB COUNTRIES> were, now these Sephardi Jews multiplied, intermarried and form today practically half the Population of Israel.

c) Name dropping seems to be part of your upbringing, try to shed it and join the debate.

 

The ICAHD? The organization that recieves funding from the NDC (one of many)?
The NDC is according to the organization:

The NDC funded the creation of the "Palestinian NGO Code of Conduct", which in such document rejects any kind of normalization activities with the "occupier", i.e. Israel.

Source'1: http://icahd.org/
Source'2: http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/ngo_development_center_ndc_0

The neighborhood Nof Zion, right?
The land of where Nof Zion is existing was bought by the contractor Rahamim Levy in the 70's.

That's why Arab politicians from the United Arab Party in the Knesset are participating in voting about bills?

 

Didn't read all of the person's post. The person's post that said
"Zionists will not tolerate a non-Jewish population of more than 20% of all people living between the River and the sea, yet the Zionists also refuse to allow non-Jews to have a vote in deciding who writes the laws they live under isn't correct as 25% of Israelis non Jews 21% Israeli Arab. They can vote since they have Israeli citizenship. Since annexation of East Jerusalem Israel has offered Palestinian there citizenship with most of them declining the offer. However, most Israelis don't want to annex West Bank since that would give 2.7 million Palestinian citizenship and makes it difficult to remain a Jewish and democratic state. The part about house demolition and building restrictions in East Jerusalem along with absentee property law used to take property owned by Palestinians in Jerusalem and reside in West Bank is well known and documented by Israeli NGO's like Ir Amim.
Rule over Jerusalem historically hasn't switched through peacefully means with Jerusalem destroyed twice,besieged 23 times,attacked 52 times, captured and recaptured 44 times. Jordanian rule between 1948-1967 of East Jerusalem wasn't good with the Jewish quarter including synagogue were destroyed and gravestones from mount of olives was used to build latrines for Jordanian army. Israelis were banned from the temple mount along with Jews who weren't Israelis. The last time Jerusalem has been ruled by itself would be since 1948;since before that British and Turks ruled Jerusalem despite being an Arab city with large Jewish minority(and majority since 1882). The solution to Jerusalem will probably be something along Clinton parameters with Jewish neighborhoods going to Israel and Arab neighborhoods going to Palestine during 2008 talks Abbas agreed to this with exception of Har Homa which was established during 1990's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/magazine/13Israel-t.html?_r=0

 

Arabs in the occupied territories "living" under Israeli military law aren't allowed to vote for those writing the laws they "live" under. If Israel wants all the land between the River and the sea for Jews, and there are equal numbers of Jews and Arabs living on that land, democracy requires one person one vote.

 

Contrary to what you want to convey to the readers...
If the situation was reversed the Arabs would not tolerate 20% Jews, nor 10% Jews, nor 5% Jews but exactly what I write this moment the sum total of 0% Jews!!!

Your outlandish views of the present situation in Jerusalem is intolerable, your fantasy has passed its bedtime... We are a country like any in this world, we have our ups and downs like anyone else... and we have our great moments too... adios.

 

Those Arab politicians represent less than 20% of all Arabs living under Israeli laws. If Israel will accept no sovereign Arab state west of the Jordan river, all Arabs living under Israeli military occupation will either receive the right to vote for Knesset candidates, or Israel will lose its last democratic illusion.

Regarding Palestinian NGOs: why would you expect normalization activities to occur when Israel has been stealing land and water from indigenous Palestinians for nearly 70 years?

 

In the West Bank the organization that respresent the Arabs there is the PLO. In Israel, the party that according to the leader of the United Arab Party is representing the Arab population in Israel.

Israel has given the Arabs the rights to vote when Area A and B was created. The one who is in control over Areas A and B (in be it is a control regarding civil issues) is the PA, hence, the Arabs if they have a problem with inner issues in the Areas A and B should go and ask the PLO why is it.
In Area B the only responsibility that been agreed between the Arabs and Israel is that Israel will have a responsibility over security, all the other problems is in the hands of the PA.

According to the agreement in the 90's, Israel will provide water to the Arabs in the West Bank, which according to the agreement a frame period of 5 years. According to such agreement Israel is committed to trasfer to the PA is 30 million cubic meters per year, while last year, in 2014, Mekorot, the National Water Company of the State of Israel, trasferred to the PA 57 million cubic meters- 27 million cubic meters of water more than what has been agreed upon.

According to the Begin-Sadat Center of Strategic Studies which is relying on a study on the subject that was published in 2012:

Source'1: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4665260,00.html
Source'2: http://www.biu.ac.il/SOC/besa/docs/GvirtzmanWP180112.pdf

This map is ineccurate.
1) In 1946, there was no state that was called "Palestine", but was a land that called "Palestine" and which according to the "Mandate for Palestine" that was signed in 1920 and later adopted by the League of Nations described "Palestine" as a place where the Jews have connection to, hence they have the rights over "Palestine" to reconstitute their national home.
2) the map that shows the situation in 1947 is talking about the UN partition plan, which was never accepted to fullfil. The UN offered the Arabs and the Jews that plan, so if both side would agreed on it, then it could be fullfiled, and yet it wasnt the case, while the Jews accepted and Arabs rejected which means that the UN partition plan from 1947 deosnt valid no more and according to that it cant be relied on.
3) The map that shows the situation in 1949-1967 was an agreed reality until 1967. such reality was agreed upon in Rhodes Agreements and which in such agreements was stated that the 1949 armistice lines couldn't be used or related to as borders of states, hence no one can rely on the reality until 1967 as something that some state needs to have such borders.
4) the map that shows the reality in 2011 it was also agreed upon in the 90's.

 

Military law is not a Democratic regime, they are under military law till we reach an agreement with their leaders, the PLO rejects area C annex to Israel and I know you don't want us upsetting the PLO so its not a matter of democracy and free votes but a grand national thing for the future of Palestine.

 

So this could be the Israeli turn to be ******** over Jerusalem and claim dominance and be no better and no worse than any other ruler that city had, if fact allowing the Muslims keep a kind of independence at the Temple mount is more than any past ruler allowed any other religious minority over such a sacred place.

 

Agreement will require you to remove 500,000 illegal squatters from the West Bank and absorb them within the Green Line. Anything less will result in the Jewish state disappearing into the same sewer as White South Africa. I'm sure neither of us wants that, do we?

 

Outlandish views? All I said was reality of situation. All you said is that I'm wrong with no facts to back up your claim when the situation in East Jerusalem regarding planning and property rights in East Jerusalem is well known and documented by Israeli NGO's like Ir Amim, and B'tselem. Israel's behavior is not contingent on Arab's behavior(there are small number of Jews remaining in Middle East and North Africa such as 2,500 in Morocco and 900 in Tunisia) especially since Israel views itself as a democratic Western country. I also noted abuses that occurred under Jordanian rule of East Jerusalem. The reality is that Palestinians in East Jerusalem like in West Bank face building restrictions with Israeli neighboring often encircling and cutting off Arab neighborhoods. The reality is that Palestinian property is often taken in East Jerusalem using absentee law despite Israel's attroney generals opposing it and often causing their Arab residents to get evicted. Jerusalem historically has consisted of the old city which included it's Jewish,Christian, Muslim, and Armenian quarters. After six day war Israel annexed Jerusalem attaching 28 Arab neighborhoods to Jerusalem. These are historic facts. This is described in history of urban planning of Jerusalem by NGO. It should be noted that in any final agreement all of East Jerusalem won't go to the Palestinians. It will probably be something similar to what was agreed upon in 2008 talks all Israeli neighborhoods stays with Israel(Abbas agreed to all except Har Homa which was established during 1990's) and Israel retaining control of temple mount(Abbas agreed to Olmert's proposal of an international custoeden including Israel and the Palestinians).
http://www.ir-amim.org.il/en/issue/Urban-Planning
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/tunisjews.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/morocjews.html

 

Israel has built settlements on TWICE as much private land as they owned before 1949.

so, if this land is Jewish-owned land, when did they buy it?

the Arabs sold it to them after 1967? bull(*)(*)(*)(*)!!

its all Arab private land.

 

Agreement might include the removal of some settlers or including them within the new Palestinian state, it depends on what is agreed, will it be a truly independent state, Palestinian refugees agreements etc', what true to the Palestinians should also be true to Jews, there are several possibilities not just one.

 

How about building housing for another half a million Jews in need of shelter?
Is this not the <Land of the Jews>, is this not the ancestral home of the Jewish Nation, is this not a fact that Israel is the inheritance of the Jewish People?

 

The focus should not be expanding settlements. One is that generally settlements are considered illegal including by Theodore Meron former legal counsel to Israel's foreign ministry after six day war and later became a judge at tribunal for the former Yugoslavia. . The second reason for practical reasons there is no reason to build outside settlement blocs since while settlement blocs will stay with Israel in a final agreement even the Palestinians in 2008 talks agreed to it with exception of Ariel settlement bloc while isolated settlements will probably be dismantled in a final deal. The settlements outside the blocs are the main problem. The settlers in settlement blocs are not extreme with many Israelis going to settlement blocs because they are cheap places to live compared to Israeli proper. In other words settlers in settlement block tend to not have rigid ideology that says all of West Bank belong to Israel no matter the history or current events or the fact that 2.7 million Palestinians that reside in West Bank nor do they not tend to be Kahaneists who go further and call for all Arabs including citizens to be expelled. In contrast, many of the isolated settlers tend to have that rigid ideology viewpoint with YItzhar, Itamar, and Hebron known to be behind price tag attacks that before one that cost lives occurred often with UNOCHR documenting 399 attacks against Palestinian property or resulted in Palestinian injury in 2013. All three have Yeshiva heads(which all get state funding and yes I know that is part of Israeli education policy to fund Yeshivas in general that doesn't change the fact that they get funding) that endorsed or helped write or publish the King's Torah which endorsed killing non Jews including children justifying it on the fear that they will rise up against the Jews. The chief rabbi of Hebron;Dov Lior also in a rabbinical ruling said Baruch Goldstein someone who massacred 29 Palestinians is holier than martyrs of the holocaust. If that is not incitement I don't know what is(I'm not saying there isn't incitement on Palestinian side, it's hypocritically to criticize Palestinians for it when there is a lot from Israeli side).
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/220568.pdf
http://imeu.org/article/state-sanctioned-incitement-israels-extremist-rabbis
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-...ts-are-illegal-under-international-law-336507
On whether Israel is the inheritance of the Jewish people or land of the Jews or the ancestral home of the Jewish nation.
The answer to that is very complex. A rough answer to that is Israel/occupied or disputed territories, or Palestine, is the residents living there want it to be. The state of Israel is located where thousands of years ago there were an ancient Jewish state. This also applies to some other ethnicity. Iraq lies where the former Persian empires controlled that doesn't mean Iran can go and annex it. On if Israel is the inheritance of the Jewish people. Israel has been the nation state of Jews since 1948 with Palestinians residing in Israel proper in the aftermath of 48 war receiving Israeli citizenship.

The reality of the conflict is that Israel can't continue to be nation state for Jews and claim to care about democracy and equal rights for everyone if it holds onto the West Bank due to demographics of 2.7 million Palestinians at the same time. Some have proposed annexing and giving all(in the case of Jewish home they propose to annex only area C since this would allow Israel to retain 60% of West Bank along with it's important resources like aquifers and fertile areas without having to give most of 2.7 million Palestinians Israeli citizenship since most of them don't live in area C) Palestinian Israeli citizenship which would turn Israel into a bi-national state which I don't see how that would work out well. Beside not probably never happening with parties from Meretz to Yisrael Beitenu don't support holding onto most of West Bank, I don't see how Palestinians and Israelis which have been in bitter conflict for many years can live and govern peacefully together. I don't see a binational state working when you have settlements like Hebron where chief rabbi called Baruch Goldstein holier than victims of Nazi genocide? I don't see how a binational state can work when a party like United Joint List would probably be the largest party; a party that refused to sign a surplus vote agreement with Meretz and is a coalition of parties that include ideologies like communism, Arab nationalism, and political Islam. I don't see how it can work when Reuven Rivlin president of Israel who is far from a leftist and is member of Likud and supports greater Israel(to be fair he has been a harsh critic of incitement against Arabs and is known for advocating for coexistence with them) was issued death threats against him for simply speaking out against an attack which killed a Palestinian baby; to be fair many Israelis also praised Rivlin.

It seems to be inevitable that in the comings years, at least decades if not much sooner there will be a Palestinian state(Gaza is a separate matter, I could see Hamas possibly doing what Irgun did after Israel formed which was dissolved and integrated into Israel's military after establishment of Palestinian state Hamas dissolves it's military wing and stays as a political party). The only way there wouldn't be a Palestinian state would be if Palestinians and Israelis would find a way to live and govern together peacefully in West Bank which again I don't see when you have areas like Hebron, Itamar, and Yitzhar.

Lastly, if you say Israel can annex West Bank and still remain a Jewish democratic state and cite Caroline Glick; she's relying on a very flawed study.
http://www.politicalforum.com/middle-east/415083-caroline-glick.html

 

We will, once we solve the matter with the Palestinians, no point building in a place we will evacuate from or that will be part of the Palestinians entity/state,

We wont go pass building some apartments here and there without an agreement, if you want a true sense of freedom traveling in Judea it will have to be thru co-existence.