Pastor Rick Joyner meets Apostle Paul in visionary dream of heaven....

.. that was given to him back in 1995.

I personally thought that this was a brilliant explanation of how the words of a mere man........ should not be used to annul...... the words of Messiah Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/fans...onary-dream-of-heaven-in-1995/439397829471068
Pastor Rick Joyner meets apostle Paul in visionary dream of heaven in 1995!

I believe that this writing can be truly helpful in putting certain statements by Paul into the context of the time and culture in which he lived.
1Timothy 2:12:
"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

 

Hmm... I think he's correct. The real problem is as he says: people don't know how to interpret what Paul is saying. Yes, the promise was offered to all of Abraham's descendants through Jesus Christ. Those people are considered God's children. No doubt about that. However, people fail to see the differences between whose God's children are and who the Children of Israel are. They incorrectly assume that if they have faith in Jesus Christ that they are the *new* Children of Israel. That's incorrect. Yes, they are God's children and yes they are going to receive the promise offered to Abraham through Jesus Christ. However, they are not the Children of Israel. The Children of Israel were given a task to become a light onto the world (the gentiles). It is their job to show the world the path to God. Very soon, people will know who the Children of Israel really are, and through that, they will find out how to become closer to God, and be assured the promise given to Abraham.

 

The promise to Abraham mentions nothing about Jesus. It does mention ALL Abrahams descendants. The circumcision that was to set the Jews apart was also practised by Ishmael and his descendants - Arabs. (Circumcision was nothing new in the ancient world). The promise of nations to Abrahams descendants must also apply to Ishmaels descendants as well as Isaacs. They are all of the seed of Abraham. God promised Hagar that Ishmael would father many nations. Gen 21 tells us that 'god was with the lad'.
The scribes who wrote the story concentrated too much on making Isaac their hero, and pushed Ishmael out.

Your use of the term Gentiles is incorrect. It is only comparatively recently 'gentiles' has come to mean -non-Jew.
Its original Hebrew meaning was 'Nation' (goy). The word 'goy' is never translated to mean 'non-jew'.

Genesis 12:2 says in Hebrew 'I will make of thee a great nation' (goy)
If however you translate goy as gentile you get 'I will make of thee a great gentile'. Which doesn't make sense.

In the OT translation of the Tanakh Goy is translated

1. Gentile
2. People
3. Heathen
4. Nation
5. Another.

Never as 'non-jew'.

 

1) The promise was made to everyone through Christ Himself.
Galatians 3:16 (NASB) says, "Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ."

2) Your Hebrew is a bit rusty. "Goyim" or "Goiim" is the proper term, and it means Gentile. Gentile means "non-Hebrew" or "non-Hebrew nation".
Source: http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/Dictionary/viewTopic.cfm?topic=IT0003866

3) In Genesis 12:2 the word used is "Gowy", which means "nations" or "people".
Source: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H1471&t=KJV

 

1Timothy 2:12:
"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

No question that it was patriarchal..... I guess that means God is male.

 

1. That's the Christian translation.
2. Goy is the singular Goyim is the plural
3. Gowy is the masculine noun of the same word.

Gentile does not exist in the Hebrew language so how can it mean 'non-Hebrew'. Or be a translation from the Hebrew.

Genesis 17:7 'and I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant'. And who are Abrahams seed? Ishmael, Isaac, Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah.

In neither Hebrew or English 'and to seeds' in the context of the sentence would be grammatically correct. The word 'seed' can be used in the plural or singular. And he is referring to the descendants, who are many and who are the seed of Abraham - not the seeds.


He planted each seed three inches apart. Until the seeds were all in place/Until the seed was in place.
She raked the grass seed into the soil. Until the seeds were equally spread/until the seed was
covered..

 

Or a female with a grudge against her own sex?

 

1) About Goy vs Goyim. Honestly, who cares?

2) About Genesis 17:7. You're simply arguing with the Apostle Paul.

3) After your last argument, I've seriously stopped taking your seriously. Arguing with you further will simply be a waste of my time.

 

1. I see. Goy v Goyim - who cares? You obviously did to reply and find you were wrong.
2. I'm not arguing with Paul. I'm arguing about what the Tanakh actually says.
3. Anyone who has any knowledge of the English language should know what you say is incorrect.

Still you are welcome to believe what you will.

 

Paul was a plant to corrupt the teachings of Christ. For if Christ was god's son, he was the last word on this. But man had to interpose himself once again, and Paul did that, when the completeness of the teachings of Christ should have stood on their own. He needed no help from a mere mortal.

There is no place for any human authority, speaking on behalf of Christ, yet paul made himself one, the self proclaimed apostle of Christ. So all of his words should be rejected, unless you think Christ was not suffiecient. LOL God was not suffiecient,, and needed help from paul? Utter nonsense. Only an idiot would think otherwise, thereby dissing the teachings of Christ, and seeing them as incomplete. If god is not complete, who the hell is?

Paul was the Old Deciever, the Satan. And so those that rely upon what paul said, are believers not in Christ, but of the old satan.

So one day satan and one of his cohorts were walking down the road. Up ahead they saw a man stop, and pick up something. The man suddenly beamed and looked so happy. The cohort asked, " I wonder what that man found on the road, that made him so happy"?

"Oh", replied satan, "he found a bit of the Truth."

"But isn't that rather bad business for you" asked his cohort?

"No, not at all" replied satan. "For I shall help him organize it!!!!!"

Which is what Paul did.

 

I suspect that Paul.........… wrote all that he wrote as honestly and as accurately as he could....... it is just that he had no idea that the time would be coming when such a high percentage of the followers of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus would take the words of Paul....... and put more emphasis on them than on the words of the Messiah.

Three centuries from now............. the visionary dream given to Pastor Rick back in 1995 could well be considered on a par with scripture by a surprising number. If you scroll down to the heading...… The Judgment Seat of Christ.... you will see one of the most insightful writings on human nature that I have ever read........ right up there with NDE accounts.

http://www.heavennet.net/visions/the-hordes-of-hell-are-marching.htm

 

One near death experiencer was shown that half of the Elohim species of "God" are male and the other half are female.

Yes, Paul was certainly affected by the patriarchal ideas of his society and culture.

I am of the belief that we are finally living in the time period when we can be shown some things that no other culture was so well prepared to receive.

http://www.politicalforum.com/scien...ionary-theory-divine-feminine-god-mother.html

Theistic Evolutionary Theory and The Divine Feminine/God The Mother??!!



The masculine and feminine thought and behaviour patterns may have a basis in theoretical physics.

http://www.grandunifiedtheory.org.il/gender/g1.htm





"

............Christian Adreason reports that duirng his NDE he got the distinct impression that the person who Christians call the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit is none other than God the Mother!!!???

http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

 

A debate just began on Facebook on the Hijab that I responded to with.........…I am curious what you think of my reply Dr. Qchan?

http://neveragaincanada.ca/canadian-citizenship-is-a-privilege-not-a-right/

"Canadian Citizenship is a Privilege, NOT a Right! Never Again Canada."

In Jewish scriptures there are three types of admonistions from G-d. 1. Commandments 2. Statutes and 3. Judgments. The words of the Apostle Paul regarding women being silent in churches....... is an example of a judgment.......... it carries the LEAST amount of weight of any type of commandment that the writer sincerely believes is inspired by the Holy Spirit. On one level..... Paul's situation was a little bit like might be faced in 2015 in Saudi Arabia..... so I suppose he may have partly made that judgment to decrease persecution on the Messianic Jewish - Messianic Gentile community of the time period.



The Hijab is also an example of a Judgment..... that is made under certain circumstances for specific reasons. All across "Christian" Europe as well as in the Islamic world of 1000 C. E. it was pretty common for a husband to be killed...... and his wife stolen by somebody extremely wealthy and/ or powerful..... if he had the misfortune to be married to somebody as beautiful as my wife Maria Jose.


The Hijab should be understood to be one of the most racist judgements ever made. They are a statement that Islamic men............ have learned nothing in the last thousand years..... and behave no better than the English lords and barons of the time of William Wallace who made it a custom to take the wife of an Irishman or Scottsman on their wedding night.

For the record....... Irishmen and Scottsmen responded to that practice of the English aristocrats by having most weddings...... in a private place with zero guests...... and the husband to be simply stated something like......"I will try to be a good husband to ye".......... and the wife often responded....."and I will try to be a good wife to ye."........ and it is amazing how much happier many of those couples were than the people today who blow $500k or more just on the wedding and honeymoon.

From my experiences over these past 40 plus years of attending various churches................ women tend to make significantly more honest and courageous pastors than the men do.

 

This is certainly an important principle.......

Pastor Rick Joyner....."Only tose who live by My judgments and abide with Me as
their wisdom can see My authority in others. Even so, do not strive
to have men see My authority in you. Do not be concerned by whether
others see you as you are; only be concerned about recognizing others
as they are and seeing Me in them. When you become concerned over how
others see you, you lose your authority. When authority becomes your goal,
you will begin to lose true authority. You know the ministry and authority
that I have given to you; do not ask people to call you by your position,
but by your name. Then I will make your name greater than your position."

In My kingdom, authority comes from who you are, not your title. Your
ministry is your function, not your rank. Here rank is earned
by humility, service and love. The deacon who loves more is
higher than the apostle who loves less. On earth, prophets may be
used to shake the nations, but here they will be known by their love.
This is also your call...... to love with My love and serve with My
heart. Then we will be one."
(Rick Joyner, page 198, The Vision)

 

The Apostle Paul contradicts Jesus in many places..

 

I think that the vehemence of the squabble that he was in with the Rabbinic Jewish community
affected his approach to life itself more than Yeshua - Jesus would have wanted.


2Co 11:24
"Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one."

Act 23:12
"And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and bound themselves under a curse, saying that they would neither eat nor drink till they had killed Paul."

Paul's normal human reaction to this conflict......
was seriously misunderstood by Martin Luther in the sixteenth century.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Luther_on_Jews.html
Anti-Semitism:
Martin Luther - "The Jews & Their Lies"
(1543)

........

 

I agree!

I just found an excellent link that contains all of this.

Just scroll down to page #37 and this whole thing is here:

http://mcreveil.org/Temoignage/pdf/The_Final_Quest.pdf

 

I believe you are right, my personal belief is the discovery of the Nag Hammabi scrolls and the research into NDE could possibly bring new understandings. The major problem is going to be to get theist believe the bible isn't infallible, until you do that you won't move mainstream Christianity.

 

In three centuries it is more likely (IMO) that Christian mythology and the NDE pseudoscience will be footnotes in history and Paster Rick's delusions won't even be remembered.

 

I believe that this is happening......
the near death experiencer material takes
difficult to understand scriptures and gives us a logical explanation for them
that actually makes scriptures far more valuable than we imagined before researching NDE's.


Isaiah 14:8
"Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us."

The unusual research in the book, The Secret Life of Plants, receives an explanation
in the NDE of Mellen Thomas Benedict who stated that he was shown that everything, both
organic as well as inorganic matter, have at least some level of sentience or feeling.

http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/experiences/mellen-thomas-benedict.html

- - - Updated - - -

Have you read the NDE account of former Atheist Mellen Benedict yet?

 

I am pretty sure that the Egyptians and all the Canaanites practiced circumcision.

 

If that's so, why did Paul say "Follow Christ not me, I wasn't crucified for you" (1 Cor 1:12/13)

 

So did sections of other civilisations.

 

It's on my list of things to read. However, I rank future reading based on a variety of factors. This one is ranked quite low. I should get to it in about 10 years.

 

Sometimes a discussion can come up with family members that will inspire us to
get into a topic that we would like to leave until later.

The Apostle Paul's mentality during the time that he wrote
much of the Christian Bible has profoundly affected the relationship
between Christians and Jews.

Frankly..... with all non Christians....... and with each other over doctrine.