Most Americans now earning less than $30,000

Discussion in 'United States' started by Anders Hoveland, Aug 14, 2015.

  1. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    The majority of American workers are now earning less than $30,000 a year.

    http://issuehawk.com/igor/2013/11/07/most-americans-earn-less-than-30000.html

    This is barely enough to live on in many regions. I would imagine many people are having to group up now and share housing space, and some are just a paycheck away from ending up out on the streets, or having to move back in with family.

    The American economy has changed. It's not the same place it was in the late 50's to early 90's. The average standard of living has fallen. It takes more money to afford a 'middle class' lifestyle now, and wages are lower than they used to be, if people can find decent jobs at all.
     
  2. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The "now earning" with your commentary suggest that you think this is new. It is why median household income is misleading. You need two adult full-time workers to make it for most families. If people have to move back in with family, then that is a good thing.
     
  3. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    easy solution: raise the minimum wage as that will stimulate the economy and create far more jobs
     
  4. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As the size of government grows, the private sector shrinks.

    This isn't rocket science.
     
  5. EggKiller

    EggKiller Well-Known Member

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    You mean government isn't free? How can that be? They give out free stuff it must be free. Your making this stuff up.
     
  6. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    The first step to solving a problem is to recognize that a problem even exists, which not everyone does.
    The second step is determining the actual cause of the problem.

    It's easy to apply too much blame to just one of the causes, which may not even be the main cause.
    This can be a deflection, and prevents us from examining the real root of the problem. Unfortunately it can be hard to truly know what the main cause really is, or to what degree different causes contribute to the problem exactly. Free trade, high levels of immigration, excessive debt, a housing bubble, rising inequality, too much government waste siphoning away economic growth, it's hard to know.
     
  7. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most of the problems you list are due to liberal (leftist) policies. The answer would be to shrink government.
     
  8. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Part of the problem is thinking this is a partisan issue

    This problem has been progressing through republican and democrat administrations for decades
     
  9. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is an excellent point
    But lets add some context

    The minimum wage in MS is 5.75
    Which works out to 1160 per year at 40 hours per week
    Which is rare for minimum wage jobs
    From that are deducted ss taxes
    And if some are to be believed
    This amount should also pay a flat income tax of xx%
    And of course sales taxes as well

    In a thread topic on the minimum wage
    A raise in this wage was portrayed as a job killer
    Presumably not even the 5.75 minimum wage is supportable due to all the jobs it kills

    So
    If Americans earned more than this luxurious 30k per year
    Wouldn't that be even more of a job killer
    Shouldn't we be thankful for low wages and the jobs they create?
     
  10. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    We are competing against a flood of cheap outside labor.

    A post-graduate student-visa program is just another scheme to displace American technology workers.
    Boy these Bureaucrats just do whatever the hell they want to and Congress sits over there like a whipped pup and does nothing as they give our jobs to foreigners.
    We are robbed blind, coming and going.

    Job Postings: Americans Need Not Apply
    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/422943/technology-industry-foreign-workers
     
  11. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    civil service jobs pay well so that is not a factor as to why wages are so low - raise the minimum wage and the problem will be solved
     
  12. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    The solution to this issue needs to be found beyond just raising the minimum wage.
    The minimum wage may be able to help those on the lowest rungs of the job market, but what about those in the lower middle?

    Even if the minimum wage were doubled it would still not be a huge amount of money to live on.
    (And for any of you stubborn enough to insist a minimum wage as the end-all solution, raising the artificial wage floor too high can have distorting effects on the economy, if you are unfamiliar with economics)
     
  13. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Raise the minimum wage and the poverty scales will just be adjusted accordingly. Instead of $12K a year, it might o to $14-$15K a year and the same "Rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer" tripe will carry on as usual.
     
  14. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    We have more looking for better paying jobs than there are better paying jobs. This leaves many in the ranks of the under-employed. They have jobs, but as the OP alludes $30K is not much to live on if you have rent, car payment, utilities, food, fuel, student loan debt, and possibly a child /children.

    For a single guy like me, I could probably scrape by on $30K in St. Louis. Have a couple room-mates, avoid going to restaurants, bring a sack lunch to work, drive a Ford Focus. It's possible....you won't save much, but it's possible to live on it. Factor in a dependent...well it's gets very difficult to make it.

    Anyway this rant doesn't really address a solution, and frankly I don't have one.

    Call me perplexed. I'm not so out of touch I can't empathize with someone trying to get by making < $30K. It' would involve a very strict budget.
     
  15. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If we raise the minimum wage to $50/hour, we can wipe out poverty forever.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here's a novel idea .... why don't we pay people according to their market value?
     
  16. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    Getting a little off-topic here, but I will answer your question:
    The market price for labor is not the same thing as the market value. Price is determined by both labor demand and supply. Too many workers and wages start getting driven downward. It is a complicated thing because there are different levels of demand at different prices. Increasing the price by 10% might result in a 30% drop in quantity demanded, or it might only result in a 3% drop in quantity demanded. One would have to analyze the demand curve.
     
  17. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't it be great if all Christian professing right wingers who have trillions sheltered overseas in tax free accounts spent their money on decent wages for the poor?

    They would be living true biblical lives, improving our society, and prove that they belong to the party of principle.
     
  18. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Market price or market value ... you can use either term. I just want to go with wherever supply and demand intersect.

    If supply and demand say sweeping the floor is a $5 per hour job, fine. If it's a $25 per hour job, fine. I just don't want the government to pick winners and losers.
     
  19. Casper

    Casper Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Really? The last Repub in the Whitehouse Doubled the size of the Government. Should we vote Libertarian?
     
  20. cjm2003ca

    cjm2003ca Active Member

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    no it won't....1n 2009 my lowest paid employee made 21.00 per hour...8 hours a day 5 days a week...i gave him raises that matched what i thought was the real inflation rate every year and same rate for the rest of my employees...he now makes 32.00 an hour...but what you don't understand is the government has been lying about the inflation rate so they can save money by not giving raises so most large companies follow that principle too... inflation has not rased 1.2% for the last 6 years like they say....
     
  21. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One Washington insider (I forget who) said in a moment of honesty that "the Republicans are the party of big government, and the Democrats are the party of really, really big government".

    I know a lot of Libertarians. I'd vote for them if they had a chance. They max out at 5%.
     
  22. Casper

    Casper Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    So we are doomed, yeup. Not to worry, there is always The Republic of Texas, I doubt many of the rest will fair as well when the bottom arrives.
     
  23. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think now that it's apparent that American incomes, at least those on the lower end of the income chart, are remaining stagnant or actually declining, that the government would do whatever they can to lower the cost of living here however they can.

    Or maybe having half the country in poverty is just normal, and maybe because we need to maintain the climate of low taxes for the rich, that instead of just declairing the new poverty level and taxing the rich to provide welfare for the poor majority, that instead of that we could reintroduce squatter settlements for the poor.

    Let them live in worker shacks, bring those things back despite the depression era laws enacted to preserve property values, just have them out of view and away from the country club.
     
  24. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In today's world, workers from Pennsylvania aren't competing with workers from Illinois. They're competing with workers from the third world. The only answer is for each person to be as competitive as possible; learn a skill or trade and become really good at it.

    I have a family member who never went to college. He shoes horses for a living. He's been doing it for 35 years and he's really good at it. He makes a lot of money, has a huge house, etc.

    But if someone wants to sit on the couch and complain, "There are no jobs" ... I don't feel too sorry for them.
     
  25. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think they should be able to sleep on the grounds of the country club at night in tents as long as they rake the traps and be gone before sunlight.
     

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