Immigrant crisis -- state of emergency declared all over Europe

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by janpor, Aug 22, 2015.

  1. janpor

    janpor Well-Known Member

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    So, all over Europe a mass-influx of immigrants has been unfolding for the last couple of months. Some countries have declared a state of emergency.

    I wonder what has changed, compared with like 6 months ago?

    And what to do with these people?

    I seriously doubt their motives. Sure, some of them are war refugees. But according to media sources a lot of them are coming after being sheltered in Turkey.
    If they are just seeking refuge from war, Turkey is the ultimate safe haven, no?

    As a concerned citizen, I don't want these immigrants to come to my country.

    Our absorption capacity for these foreigners has hit rock bottom.

    For example, yesterday it was in the news that a gay couple in the city of Ghent was being bullied severely for years now in their "multicultural neighborhood" and that the police department refused to intervene in a meaningful manner. Seriously?! And fact is, one of the men has a job as a graphic designer with a well-known and highly-read Belgian magazine, which is probably why it even made the news in the first place.

    These people (yes -- I'm calling them like that) are completely refusing to let them absorb themselves in our superior Western state of mind.

    Please, let them keep their traditions, but they do not recognize that our route to development is superior which creates enormous problems.

    So, my question is how do y'all feel about these massive influx of immigrants? Do you like them coming to your country?
     
  2. Paksenarrion

    Paksenarrion New Member

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    As person descended from Jews who came to the UK fleeing Eastern European anti Semites (The Russian pogroms ) I feel for the Syrians an Iraqis fleeing ISIS. and I think they should be allowed to settle in Europe as asylum seekers.
    Who I do not want is the sub Saharan Africans queuing up in Calais as they are low skilled economic migrants who we do not need. And it begs the question if they are prepared to break the law to enter the UK what else would they be prepared to do.
     
  3. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You should treat the Islamic invaders the way Charlemange did: remove them by force.
     
  4. Jackster

    Jackster New Member

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    Hell no! Australians took a lot of heat from leftists in wanting to stop the boat invasions of our shores. Now we turn the boats around and tow them away - what ever it takes to stop encouraging more. We see Trump having success with his anti-mass immigration, anti illegal immigration stance - it just takes people pushing back against the Marxist PC police. As Trump says, without border control, strong sensible immigration that benefits a nation then you dont have a country.

    This video spells it out very clearly just how pointless mass immigration is and it in fact being harmful. 85 million are born into extreme poverty every year, so what ever you take will make NO difference. The only thing you can acheve is losing your country, culture, people and welfare once its crushed under the weight of 3rd world, low skilled immigration. Then to take the brightest, wealthiest and most dissatisfied from them hurts their countries as he says, its these people who can bring about change to lift the standards for the many.

    [video=youtube;LPjzfGChGlE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE[/video]
     
  5. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the world of Unintended Consequences.

    The war in Iraq displaced millions of Iraqi.
    The displaced and out-of-work Iraqi spread out over the Middle-East.
    Those Middle-Eastern country did not have the resources to deal with nor employ that
    many displaced people.

    It aint rocket science.

    Wait till the war in Iran starts - millions more displaced people will have even
    more of a destabilizing effect on the region.

    Same s**t, different day.
     
  6. Red

    Red Active Member

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    SHAME.jpg

    You never know your luck. They might not make it.
     
    cenydd and (deleted member) like this.
  7. Red

    Red Active Member

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    So what do we do?

    Are you going to take back the 400,000 Australians living in the UK?

    Or do we take back the 1,200,000 Brits in Australia?

    Or can white people move around to suit themselves/

    It's the last option, isn't it?
     
  8. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps not so much for Syrian Kurds, like the now famous drowned little boy and his family. Turkey hasn't exactly got a history of being the most Kurd-friendly of countries.
     
  9. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You know that many of the people in Calais are from Syria, right?

    And that many of the others there have come from places like Eritrea, also fleeing vicious civil wars?

    You do also know that many of the people there are highly skilled and educated, yes?
     
  10. Red

    Red Active Member

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    I don't know how people miss that. The refugees in Calais are already in a European country - you'd think that would be enough for a "low skilled economic migrant". They have good reasons to want to be in Britain, like they have a skill that's in demand here, or they have friends or relatives waiting for them. Otherwise, they would find a better place in France than a muddy camp outside Calais.
     
  11. Paksenarrion

    Paksenarrion New Member

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    Well if you posted my whole quote I did say let Syrians and iraqi's in as they are genuine refugees economic migrants we can do with out.
     
  12. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But most of the others are from similarly vicious-conflict-blighted areas, or places where their safety is under threat for specific reasons (gay people from countries where that is punishable by imprisonment or death, for example). Of the main source countries, the only case that is possibly arguable in terms of being 'economic migrants' is Pakistan, although some of those will certainly be coming from some of the more 'troubled' areas or for specific personal safety reasons (as with the example given). Some of those, perhaps, can reasonably and legitimately be 'sent home' under international, EU and UK law, but unless we actually find out who they are we'll never be able to do that.

    The vast majority of them are 'genuine refugees'. They aren't just 'economic migrants'. Until we actually deal with the issue by allowing them to apply to come here, rather than just trying to lock them out (knowing that some will get through anyway), we'll never know which is which anyway. Building bigger fences isn't a sensible solution, either for the short-term or the long term - it won't work (at best it will spread the problem from Calais and the tunnel to other access methods - ports, and yet more people traffickers - that's not a good thing for anyone). We need to put in place a system whereby we can actually process the applicants somehow (preferably before they die trying to get here illegally), and whatever their 'case' we need to treat them humanely (preferably before they die of malnutrition or disease in a makeshift camp).

    The way we are addressing the issue in Calais is both ineffective and inhuman. That surely has to be wrong. There has to be a better way.
     
  13. Red

    Red Active Member

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  14. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    I live in Germany.
    In my opinion, this is a very complicated situation we are facing at the moment and it will probably create more and more problems in the future.
    I think there are several aspects to be looked at.
    On the one hand, I think that basically every refugee that tries to escape from a war zone should be accepted (mostly Syrians and Iraqis).
    If only half of what I've read about Syria is true, it must be hell on earth.
    On the other hand, roughly 40% of those coming to Germany right now are from the Balkans, which isn't a war zone anymore. They simply flee from poverty, unemployment and a really bad economic situation.
    Does Germany have an obligation to accept them? Not really, IMO.

    I'm not quite sure what Merkel is doing at the moment and if she has some kind of a plan, or a strategiy, I'm afraid not. She has proven herself to be rather passive when it comes to domestic politics.
    They say 800,000 are coming this year. I've read an interview with a sociologist who said this could be the most demanding internal challenge for Germany since the end of WWII. I really hope Merkel will get off her backside.

    I see a problem with the background and the education of many refugees / migrants.
    E.g. those coming from the Balkans are in large part almost not educated at all in our western sense, i.e. many are illiterate in their own language, and the past has taught us that teaching these people a foreign language seems to be a very hard thing. That's why there are people who have been living in Germany for decades who speak only very basic German. Needless to say, they won't find a job in a highly industrialized country.

    Unfortunately, the simple fact that the vast majority are muslims doesn't help either IMO.
    Muslim students have been the least successful regarding school degrees, secondary and university education in the past. The typical school drop-out is male, of non-German origin and muslim. This has been clearly shown by numerous studies and schools have be warning for quite some time that many muslim students tend to get out of control regarding their democratic beliefs and moral values.
    Plus, many of these people simply don't accept the western way of live and have created some kind of parallel society with its own values, social norms, family traditions and sense of justice. They, very openly, despise the German constitution and its laws and don't consider themselves part of the country and society they live in.
    You never hear about these kind of problems created by other Europeans living here. Instead, and unfortunately, it's muslims from South-East Europe, Turkey, and the Middle East who are notoriously well-known for being "outside the law."

    Regarding migrants from the Balkans, these are usually sent back in large numbers. However, it often takes up to 6 months as every case is checked individually, and many come back and try a second or even third time. To this day, Germany doesn't not have an Immigration Act, which means, everybody who knocks on the door is allowed to enter.

    I'm basically fine with people coming here and accepting our western way of life (there are things to be criticized as nothing is perfect, but IMO this system has proven to be more than just ok). Adapt to the new life and the way things are done, and there won't be any major problems. Unfortunately, that has almost never happened in the past.

    There is, however, one thing we, the west and in particular the most powerful country, should do; we should simply stop (*)(*)(*)(*)ing up the Middle East and basically every country that we don't like and think we have to change to our liking.
     
  15. rayznack

    rayznack Well-Known Member

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    Can you name a benefit to diversity?
     
  16. Paksenarrion

    Paksenarrion New Member

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    Getting a kebab after a night on the lash?
     
  17. Red

    Red Active Member

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    I don't have to.

    If nobody chooses to live in England except people whose families have resided here for umpteen generations, so be it.

    And if people come here from elsewhere to take up a job offer, or to escape a vicious civil war, or even on some bizarre whim, so be it.

    It's those who advocate ethnic purity who have to "name a benefit to" controlling individuals' freedom of movement. And they never have - they just piled into Poland in their tanks as though they had no serious case to advance.
     
  18. Red

    Red Active Member

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    No it's not. A person who left Bosnia at the very beginning of the war has barely managed to chalk up two decades of life in Germany - allegedly, with only very basic German (not, I hasten to add, that I'm buying this tosh about Bosnians being illiterate).

    The reason there are people living in Germany who speak only basic German is because that's how Germany always wanted it. My brother's in-laws are Spanish, and they were Gastarbeitern in the sixties and seventies. They have scarcely a word of German, because they were segregated. You would be hard pressed find any Spaniard who had worked for as long in France or Britain (or America, or Australia, or the Low Countries etc.) who hadn't picked up the language.

    Having said which, the children always become fluent.
     
  19. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    I did not talk about migrants from Bosnia. I can't remember using the word "Bosnia" and / or referring to the 90s civil war. My syntax, however, might have created the impression that these two things are closely connected.
    Just believe me, there are many people here from the Balkans (former Yugoslavia), Albania, Turkey, Lebanon, the Middle East in general who have been living here for sometimes three generations and half the family doesn't speak proper German. My grandfather on my mother's side came from Croatia as a young guy and stayed in Germany until his death. Up to the end of his life he spoke rather bad German.

    Integration policies in the 60s and 70s (not that I was around at that time) had left a lot to be desired. But even back then there were language classes. Sorry to say that, but your example of your brothers-in-law (probably two people) can hardly be used as a generalisation for a whole generation of so-called Gastarbeiter. Meaning, because it happened to them, does in no way mean it happened to everybody during those 20 years. The basic idea back then was that Gastarbeiter were only to work in Germany for 3 or 4 years and then were to return, so the next "generation" could come, the government wanted a rotation principle. However, in reality this never happened, because once these people were trained in their jobs, companies didn't want them to leave as a new generation would have meant starting from scratch.

    If we want to take singular examples: I have two tailors in my neighborhood. One family is Kurdish, the other Turkish. No family member I have ever spoken to speaks decent German.
    A friend of mine works at a hospital specialized in heart surgery. They had a middle-aged (~50) Turkish woman coming in and had to get a translator, because she didn't understand a single word. She had been living here for more than 20 years. Germany wanted it? Not really.
    Btw, I have experienced migrants in the Netherlands living there for one and a half decades with only basic Dutch skills, same in Austria, same in France, not Spaniards though, so I can't comment on that nationality.

    Children always become fluent? Nope.
    I have many teachers among my friends and there are countless cases of children born to immigrants and born in Germany who are anything but fluent. There are studies who clearly show that more than 25% of year 10 high school students of said background have the reading comprehension of a 7 to 8 year old.
     
  20. Red

    Red Active Member

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    But Britain and France and the Low Countries and Scandinavia - and North America - have no such phenomenon. People naturally pick up the language in the workplace and in their neighbourhoods.

    What proportion have the reading comprehension of a seven to eight year old out of the whole year ten cohort - what's par for the course? Out of all year ten students in inner city schools and/or in low-income districts? How are we compensating for year ten students who arrived in Germany during year ten - there will be more of them in communities currently arriving, for obvious reasons of arithmetic.

    But I'm bombarding you with questions - why not just link to the statistics?
     
  21. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    [MENTION=26341]Red[/MENTION],
    can you read / understand German?
    You might have heard of PISA or IGLU studies. Every study I have taken a look at was in German, every report I have watched was in German.
     
  22. rayznack

    rayznack Well-Known Member

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    I think a country has the right to decide who gets to enter their borders.

    That isn't controlling individual freedoms as non-citizens not even residing in Britain obviously do not have an automatic right to enter Britain.

    If certain groups of people entering Britain are not beneficial to British society, then what's wrong with Britain restricting their entrance?

    Do Brits even get to have a choice, anymore?
     
  23. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes. Freedom. The freedom to live your life as you choose, not according to anybody else's idea of what is 'normal'. Those two things are the same - you cannot have one without the other.

    I enjoy Shakespeare and Gilbert & Sullivan, but I don't come from England. I enjoy all kinds of different foods from all over the world, but I'm not from the places they come from. I like American films, I like Scottish bagpipe music, I like Scandinavian Death Metal - I like all kinds of different things originating from all kinds of places, and I love the fact that they are all available to me without me having to travel all across the world to experience them. Who is anyone else to tell me that these things are not 'culturally acceptable' for me? Who am I to say the same to anyone else? Who am I to dictate that people should or shouldn't go to certain types of places of worship, or should believe in one God(s) or another? Why is any of that my business? Why shouldn't I celebrate alongside people of different religions and cultures when they are celebrating? Who is anyone to dictate that certain things or people can only belong in one place, and certain other things and people can only belong in another?

    The UK has always been one of the most culturally diverse places on the planet, and that is a continuing trend that we should celebrate - it is a strength. It has already given us a wonderfully rich legacy of different things we can choose to enjoy and be a part of, and long may that continue.

    Name me one benefit to all of us having to be the same, do the same and think the same.

    There isn't one, unless a person believes that everybody has to be, do and think just like them in order to be considered 'worthy' to live near them. I don't think like that - not only is it morally wrong, but I believe it diminishes us and our lives.
     
  24. hkisdog

    hkisdog Banned

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    Do fools find out the Europe immigration policies is a suicide policy now?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Indian go back to india, blacks go back to Africa, hongkis go back to hongkong.
    or we will send them back.
     
  25. hkisdog

    hkisdog Banned

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    or to escape a vicious civil war.

    -----------------
    this is their problems. they should fight and win the war, but not run away.
    of course, if they are from Europe/west Asia, and they are good looking they can come.

    All blacks can stay in their own countries.
     

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