Why i no longer believe in God

i am posting a link to a rather long youtube video
It lasts about an hour and a half

A few comments first
I do not imagine or intend to change anyones current beliefs
I think it is a good and interesting video
Watch it if you want

It is made by a person who grew up as a very devout christian
As such, maybe the first 15 minutes dwells on how he became disillusioned with seventh day adventism.... Which you may want to skip

But it then goes on to cogently discuss nearly all the. Issues we wind up discussing on this forum.

One thing i found impressive about his presentation is his fair minded attitude. For instance in his discussion of 7th day adv he frequently tells the view to independently check his information. And then gives references to specific books that cover each side of the issue.

I am not intending to start a debate on this thread,
Everyone has already extensively expressed their views
Just a video i am sharing



So, here you go

http://youtu.be/M5ZLuRYp8gk

 

You are probably right in that the subject has become very complex with everyone having a different god is mind, and many can't understand the idea of trinity.

So now that your mind is made up,... do you believe that Truth is the image of Reality which had already unfolded?
Or, could we say that Truth is born out of Reality.

 

I am pretty much a stone cold heathen but even I understand the true nature of the need for religion in human nature. The video is interesting the but the message is short sighted and very self centered. The creator of the video reminds me of many Catholics that become disenchanted with Catholicism, yet many of those same Catholics embrace Christianity in a different form. There is a message from all religions and to understand that is to have a better understanding of what we all really are as humans.

 

I would not exactly say my mind is made up
This guy make lots of points that i agree with
And uses those to prove the validity of his current dis belief

All of this because it is an important issue to him
He has clearly struggled with it for years

I have also struggled
But mostly arrived at a point of not caring very much
Except as a sort of academic question
Or when i am confronted by a convicted theist who thinks my life or national policy should conform to his certain theistic views... In which case my inner sceptic energies,,, which can be confused with atheism... But is better described as "not buying your theism"

Sorry, I dont want to discuss truth and reality..., which in my view quickly descends in to a debate akin to ascertaining how many angels can dance on the head of a pin

 

Some good friends of mine are, (or were), Seventh Day Adventists and that church's very dogmatic teaching of "soul sleep" just doesn't hold up if one begins to do more research.

I am truly impressed by the assertion that absolutely everything...... done by every human who has ever lived...... has been recorded on something far far far beyond DVD.

http://www.near-death.com/science/research/time.html

 

Hmmm,...
Since living in Reality is a sign of sanity, it ought be of some interest to everyone.

In fact, if sanity is defined by actually living in the real world, and acting so as that world will continue for us all, as a species, we need find and act upon Truth which describes Reality for us.

 

But you do agree that sanity demands we live in Reality, right?

I mean, if our behavior leads us all, (as a society or nation or even the whole world), in a direction of extinction, then we need behave differently.
Like Global Warming is important, if true, because it threatens us all.

We need discover the Truth here to save ourselves grief, if not avoid extinction, itself.

 

This kind of question goes back to the question of what is 'truth'? I have come up with; truth is how everything, every object in the universe is made up and how it works. Truth is not possible to possess by beings that are a part of the materialistic world/universe. Reality is also a misnomer. The most impure level of reality can only be described/defined by an individual. Your reality is not my reality, and if one wants to dig really deep reality can only be described/defined to a certain level. That is because reality ie what is real, is the same as truth on the deepest level. In my world God is truth because he knows everything about everything which has implications for reality. That is because God created reality by creating a materialistic universe.
reva

 

Nonsense, living in general requires we live in what we think is reality, but we all have our own reality. I don't know what, if anything, sanity requires. And sanity has no relationship one way or the other with our survival. Some rather prosperous whole cultures were, quite demonstrably almost incredibly bizarre, some of the staidest civilizations have gone belly up with great suffering consequent in the very midst of their most conservative rituals.

 

Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty, Keats.

 

Perception is what you mean when you say, "Your Reality is different from my Reality."

We may both be wrong in what we think about the Reality, which exists before and after we did.
Reality existed before man was created, and it does not depend upon what we think.

But Truth descibes the Reality which does exist, even if we only know a little bit of what is true.

 

Especially in Mathematics, which people believe describes what is True.

There is a harmony we see as beauty in Nature, but recognize in mathematics, too.

 

Hmmm,...
You ignore the truth here, that every democracy has failed usually within 250 years.
Seven major empires have risen in civilization, and each has fallen down, one after being replaced by the next.

The seventh empire of what we call Western Civilization, has just witnessed the fall of Nazi Germany as the dominate kingdom of Western World.
Global Pan-America replaced it, and that nation is just bout 250 years old, another democracy surrounded by enemies and filled with bastards kids in all its major cities.

That is The Reality we both know is also True.

 

[video=youtube;O8h-xEuLfm8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8h-xEuLfm8[/video]

 

Nazi Germany was an upstart empire that never really became what its leaders envisioned. It had a short-term military grasp over a large part of Europe, a military victory only.

America's global hegemony is much closer to being a proper empire. There we have a novus ordo seclorum with its own measure of peace, prosperity and autonomy among its constituents, as well as a military presence and enforcement of a central, imperial will out of economic interests throughout the empire's territory, which is practically global.

 

It would be impossible for the universe to exist without some patterns. Such organizing principles can be taken as proof of a plan.... Ie god. And to our mind that does seem the obvious... Even necessary reality.

However the reality of emergent design is now well known. Intricate patterns emerge with out being designed. The patterns of the universe are a reflection of what worked, what organization emerged.

It is possible that the big bang might have just resulted in a chaotic soup of particles
Maybe their have been other big bangs that did produce only a chaotic soup. Our particular big bang had a few fairly simple inter relationships that ultimately produced the emergent design that we see as our universe.

Yes, you can define that process as god i suppose
But it is not necessary to do so

In any case, there is no reason to believe that what we see around us is the result of some highly detailed plan that an intelligent designer lovingly crafted as a home for us.p
Just my opinion

 

When it comes to man, reality is someone subjective so who's reality do you think should rule?

 

Insanity; "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Good saying.
reva

 

"The more I think about language the more it amazes me that people ever understand each other." ... Gödel

Indeed language is the weak link especially when discussing deep philosophical issues. I cant disagree with your conclusions entirely, but I do have a different opinion on the definition of reality and truth. Or maybe we are simply using words differently? Language is not the best tool, math is more precise but it comes difficult for me. What I mean by saying reality is different is that everything is an extrapolation our brains make of our environment. However reality or what you would say is reality is just a bit skewered from truth (the way things really are) by a variety of processes which makes your reality a product of your brain. So the same event in your reality would not be the same as I see. In a macro world and with non-relativistic speeds etc involved the tiny differences between your my and others reality vs the truth of the way things really are unnoticeable. Stretch some events via time dilation via the speed of light and the effects are profound! Stars are seen as they were millions or billions of years ago not as they are today which is truth. The vision of the star twinkling in our night sky is an illusion and is not reality, because if we could instantaneous transport to one of those stars billions of light years away it may not even exist or be a nebulae or dwarf etc in 'real time' or reality. So reality would be truth only if we could disregard the effects of the material universe. It's the burnt out star or nonexistent star which is truth and what is reality, not the star we would see from earth. I don't see how reality can be real if its not the same for everyone, that's why real truth is the only valid reality, and can not exist in this material universe.

If something does not make sense please ask me to clarify. I find it exceedingly difficult to put these kinds of ideas into word, brother Kurt Godel was right!

reva

 

Now Dave I can agree 100% with that post! Fractals etc Chaos theory etc It amazing what mathematics can describe etc. reva

 

Ahhhh.... but that mathematical description is not the thing that is being described, therefore, it is only a representation of something. So, while we are talking about how amazing it is what mathematics can describe, then please give the mathematical description of God. Win the Nobel prize.

 

Yes, the seven headed beast represented seven empires, and it had ten horns of each of the European nations which also reigned supreme for a little while, as dominate among the other countries.
Nazi Germany was just one of those "kingdoms."

But the beast itself was to become the eighth head, and it represented Pan America, which is the USA today.


Rev. 17:11 And the (seven headed) beast, (a brazen and corrupt, sexually misdirected economic system: [Dan 3:1-5]), that was until Rome), and is not (for a thousand years of Monasticism under Christ), even he is the eighth, (the Global Economy), and is of the seven, (i.e.; Western Culture), and goeth into (Historical ignominy), perdition.

- - - Updated - - -

777 in Vegas?

 

You mean our perceptions of what we think Reality is.
We may each have a different perception.
But in spite of that, only one Reality exists, and it is the same for us all.

That we have different perceptions is normal.
Seven different Multiple Intelligences are known now to exist.
Each of them can contribute to hashing out the Reality as the full picture becomes evermore clear to us all.

Reality is described by using Facts we experimentally have discovered, and then used together to establish true things.
These true things paint what Reality must be, even though we are blind to seeing Reality except by deducing it from truths.

 

Oh lawdy. No, there are no biblical texts written about Europe. In fact, biblical writers were quite ignorant of goings-on there, focused rather on their own little bit of desert, pretending it was somehow important.

Its importance then became a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts thanks to the Christianisation of Rome and the legacy that has gone on to leave, of course. Even now fundamentalist Christians obsess over Israel, dead certain that events there are pivotal to their apocalyptic fantasies.

 

I think you need use the word "perception," as in the idea of "perception of Reality," instead of "Reality" when you say these things.
We each have our on perception of Reality, but the actual Reality is different.
The actual Reality might be different from all our ideas or perceptions of Reality.

Your thoughts might sound more like this, if you used the idea of "perception of Reality:"


"What I mean by saying reality is different is that everything is an extrapolation our brains make of our environment. However reality or what you would say is your "perception of Reality," is just a bit skewered from truth (the way things really are, i.e. Reality).

By a variety of processes which makes your "perception of Reality" a product of your brain. So the same event in your "perception of Reality" would not be the same as my "perception of Reality".