Abbas wants to abrogate the 'Oslo Accord'...

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by HBendor, Sep 7, 2015.

  1. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Abbas wants to abrogate the 'Oslo Accord'...

    As a last resort, and as I always suspected this to be, on the eve of his replacement by Erakat, Abbas now wants to leave his signature on his fake legacy... To me he would always be the Murderer who financed the Murder of the Israeli Athletes in the Olympic in Munich..

    .
    1. According to Maan News, Mahmoud Abbas will declare at the UN that Palestine is a “state under occupation,” annulling the Oslo Accords. The Times of Israel reports that Saeb Erekat is masterminding this maneuver.

    . . . the resignation threats were no more than a diversion ahead of a dramatic move planned by the Palestinians: declaring Palestine a state under occupation and reneging on their obligations as detailed in the Oslo Accords.

    It’s not the first time we’ve heard rumors that Oslo will be voided, that the PA will be dismantled, or that Abbas will resign. It always seems to come back to Israeli-Palestinian security cooperation that keeps Fatah cadres from being chucked off Ramallah rooftops by Hamas.

    3. Faiz Abu Hamadiah, the Palestinian who saved five American Jewish students from a Hebron lynch mob last week, is getting death threats from other Palestinians.

    http://honestreporting.com/idns-09072015-scrap-oslo/
     
  2. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Abbas to declare end of Oslo II Accord at UN general assembly
    Sept. 7, 2015 10:38 A.M. (Updated: Sept. 7, 2015 11:26 A.M.)
    http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=767475


    BETHLEHEM (Ma’an) -- President Mahmoud Abbas will tell the upcoming UN
    General Assembly that the Palestinian leadership is no longer bound by the
    Oslo Accords due to Israel's lack of commitment to the 1993 agreement, a PLO
    official said Sunday.

    PLO Executive Committee member Ahmad Majdalani told Ma'an that the decision
    to no longer abide by Oslo II was drafted by a preparatory committee for the
    upcoming Palestine National Council (PNC) meeting and will likely be
    approved during the session scheduled for Sept. 14-15.

    The move is based on agreements reached by PLO factions during previous
    Central Council meetings.

    “The Palestinian leadership has decided to terminate the Interim Agreement
    on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip known as the Oslo Accords II, which was
    signed in Taba on September 28, 1995,” Majdalani said.

    “In light of the lack of commitment by Israel, the Palestinian leadership
    has decided that it isn’t bound by the agreement anymore and president Abbas
    will announce that before the UN General Assembly.”

    Future moves will be prepared by a PNC committee, he added, without
    providing further details.


    The official provided no indication of what would become of security
    coordination between the PA and Israel, a key requirement of Oslo, although
    he said that the leadership in Ramallah has decided to make the PNC a
    Palestinian parliament and the PLO Executive Committee a Palestinian
    government.

    The Oslo Accords were the first time Israel and the PLO officially
    recognized each other and stipulated the creation of an interim Palestinian
    government -- the Palestinian Authority -- to negotiate a framework for full
    Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank by 1998.

    All fundamental final status issues, such as Jerusalem, borders,
    settlements, and refugees, were to be discussed after the five-year interim
    period.


    Oslo II created Areas A, B, and C of the occupied West Bank.

    The official visited Syria two days ago to meet with Palestinian factions
    who are not members of the PLO to explain the motivations for the upcoming
    meeting, saying that the session would challenge the Israeli occupation and
    was a response to Hamas' alleged talks with Israel "at the expense of
    internal reconciliation."

    Around 26 participants from Syria will participate in the PNC meeting, he
    added.

    The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command and the
    Popular Liberation Forces said they would boycott the meeting “but won’t
    take strict stances against decisions which emerge."
    ________________________________________
    IMRA - Independent Media Review and Analysis
     
  3. xavierphoenix

    xavierphoenix New Member

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    Oslo Accords don't seem relevant anymore with Israeli government refusing to negotiate with Abbas with last genuine negotiations in 2008 when Abbas and Olmert were months away from a deal but ran out of time to negotiate differences like Ariel, Har homa, etc. due to Israeli elections. Declaring that Palestine is a state(while occupied it's territory since there hasn't been a Palestinian state with Israeli and Jordanian control before not recognized by the world and before that Palestine controlled by various empires) under occupation isn't breaking news. Considering government will probably not negotiate let alone, go back to 2008 talks; the best move the Palestinians could is probably hand the keys back to Israel and dissolve the PA(Abbas has threatened this several but hasn't acted on it).

    While you correctly note that Abbas did finance Munich massacre, there also have been Israeli leaders with blood on their hands. Ariel Sharon is the most infamous most known for letting Phalange fighters in Sabra Shatila refurgee camp which then committed Sabra and Shatila massacre(Sharon ordered the Phalange fighters to only attack PLO fighters remaining however he was found indirectly resignation by ordering Phalange fighters in despite their track record for massacring civilians during Lebanese civil war). However that was not the only example with two earlier examples which he led troops during massacres and another recently discovered where he ordered an expulsion of Bedouin tribe that led to 40 of them dying. While head of unit 101 a group set up to do reprisal raids in response to fedeyeen(done by Palestinians living in Gaza and West Bank than under Egyptian and Jordanian control) attacks he did Bureij and Qibya massacre in 1953. At Bureij a refugee camp in Gaza after unit 101 was discovered during a raid they opened fire indiscriminately to escape the camp with UN observers for the mixed armistice commission at the time reporting "Bombs were thrown through the windows of huts in which refugees were sleeping and, as they fled, they were attacked by small arms and automatic weapons. The casualties were twenty killed, twenty-seven seriously wounded and thirty-five less seriously wounded." Another massacre that occurred was Qibya(it's a village in the West Bank). Qibya was done after fedyeen at the Israeli village of Yehud throw a grenade at a house and killed a woman and her two children. Although Qibya was known as one of the bases for fedyeen there is no evidence that the attacks came from Qibya. The Qibya massacre caused 69 Arab civilians to die. Sharon would claim that he didn't know the civilians were hiding in there houses while the homes were being demolished. However, UN observers from the mixed armistice commission noted
    "bullet-riddled bodies near the doorways and multiple bullet hits on the doors of the demolished houses indicated that the inhabitants had been forced to remain inside until their homes were blown up over them."
    "Witnesses were uniform in describing their experience as a night of horror, during which Israel soldiers moved about in their village blowing up buildings, firing into doorways and windows with automatic weapons and throwing hand grenades. A number of unexploded hand grenades, marked with Hebrew letters indicating recent Israel manufacture, and three bags of TNT were found in and about the village."
    Jordanian pathologists also noted "most of the dead had been killed by bullets and shrapnel rather than by falling masonry or explosions.”
    Ariel Sharon also was a known liar with David Ben Gurion referring to Sharon in his diary as "“an insightful young man, innovative; if he were to surmount his weakness of not telling the truth in his reports he could be an exemplary military leader.” Recently David Landua while doing research on a biography of Sharon found out through Clinton Baily Israeli expert on Bedouin while doing reserve service in the Sinai in 1972 found that while Sharon was head of southern command he ordered expulsion of 3,000 Bedouin during middle of freezing night for a military exercise which caused 40 Bedouin mainly children, old men, and babies to die. An army spokesperson's unit has confirmed the case is recorded in the history department.
    http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/017EEFB458011C9D05256722005E5499
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/11/o...e-warrior-who-could-have-made-peace.html?_r=0
    https://books.google.com/books?id=j... rather than by falling masonry qibya&f=false

    Another example of an Israeli leader with a bloody past was Menachem Begin. Before becoming prime minister in 1977 he became head of the terrorist group Irgun until it dissolved in 1948. The Irgun conducted terrorist attacks against Arab civilians like Haifa oil refinery attack and Damascus gate attack.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=y...&q=irgun haifa refinery damascus gate&f=false
     
  4. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Baloney... 'Oslo Accord' is based on a <quid pro quo> = <something for something>...
    If you do not know that much go open a book on the subject matter and find exactly what this is all about.

    The question is that Abbas refuses to meet with Bibi if his demands are not met before they sit together at the table while Bibi says <NO preconditions>...
     
  5. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oslo is now just a tool for the Israeli govt. to oppress the Palestinians.

    it was not meant to be permanent, yet it has become such.
     
  6. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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  7. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  8. xavierphoenix

    xavierphoenix New Member

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    The Oslo accords were suppose to last 5 years. However failed due to mistakes on both sides with Oslo Accourds ending started after Arafat came back from camp david and launched second intifada shortly afterwards. Abbas doesn't want to go into talks with no preconditions largely due to experience of kerry talks last year. An anonymous official involved with talks believed to be Martin Indyk(who was involved with camp david talks) in an interview at ynet blamed the settlements as the biggest issue saying
    "The negotiations had to start with a decision to freeze settlement construction. We thought that we couldn't achieve that because of the current makeup of the Israeli government, so we gave up. We didn't realize Netanyahu was using the announcements of tenders for settlement construction as a way to ensure the survival of his own government. We didn't realize continuing construction allowed ministers in his government to very effectively sabotage the success of the talks. "
    "There are a lot of reasons for the peace effort's failure, but people in Israel shouldn't ignore the bitter truth - the primary sabotage came from the settlements. The Palestinians don't believe that Israel really intends to let them found a state when, at the same time, it is building settlements on the territory meant for that state. We're talking about the announcement of 14,000 housing units, no less. Only now, after talks blew up, did we learn that this is also about expropriating land on a large scale. That does not reconcile with the agreement.
    "At this point, it's very hard to see how the negotiations could be renewed, let alone lead to an agreement. Towards the end, Abbas demanded a three-month freeze on settlement construction. His working assumption was that if an accord is reached, Israel could build along the new border as it pleases. But the Israelis said no."
    But while we were focusing on efforts to soften the Israeli side, announcements of new housing tenders in settlements limited Abbas' ability to show flexibility. He lost his trust in the talks. The worst part was when Netanyahu said Abbas had agreed to a deal of prisoners for settlement construction. It wasn't in line with the truth."
    "Abbas went into these talks a skeptic. Actually, they were all skeptics, but his doubts focused on Netanyahu. The Oslo Accords were Netanyahu's creation. Abbas watched how Oslo opened the door to 400,000 Israelis to settle beyond the Green Line. He wasn't willing to bear it anymore."
    And there were other things. Israel presented its security needs in the West Bank: it demanded complete control over the territories. This told the Palestinians that nothing was going to change on the security front. Israel was not willing to agree to time frames - its control of the West Bank would continue forever.
    "Abbas reached the conclusion that there was nothing for him in such an agreement. He's 79 years old. He has reached the last chapter of his life. He's tired. He was willing to give the process one final chance, but found, according to him, that he has no partner on the Israeli side. His legacy won't include a peace agreement with Israel.
    "In February, Abbas arrived at a Paris hotel for a meeting with Kerry. He had a lingering serious cold. 'I'm under a lot of pressure,' he complained. 'I'm sick of this.' He rejected all of Kerry's ideas. A month later, in March, he was invited to the White House. Obama presented the American-formulated principles verbally - not in writing. Abbas refused.
    "The claim on your side that Abbas was avoiding making decisions is not true. He wasn't running away, he was just stuck. "
    "He agreed to a demilitarized state; he agreed to the border outline so 80 percent of settlers would continue living in Israeli territory; he agreed for Israel to keep security sensitive areas (mostly in the Jordan Valley - NB) for five years, and then the United States would take over. He accepted the fact that in the Israeli perception, the Palestinians would never be trustworthy.
    "He also agreed that the Jewish neighborhoods in East Jerusalem would remain under Israeli sovereignty, and agreed that the return of Palestinians to Israel would depend on Israeli willingness. 'Israel won't be flooded with refugees,' he promised.
    "He told us: 'Tell me if there's another Arab leader that would have agreed to what I agreed to. I won't make any more concessions until Israel agrees to the three following terms:
    Outlining the borders would be the first topic under discussion. It would be agreed upon within three months.
    A timeframe would be set for the evacuation of Israelis from sovereign Palestinian territories (Israel had agreed to complete the evacuation of Sinai within three years).
    Israel will agree to have East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine"
    The Israelis would not agree to any of the three demands."
    Since Bibi went back to office in 2009 he has also refused to go back to point of 2008 talks even though Abbas and Olmert were months away from a deal.
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-envoy-to-resign-after-blaming-settlements-for-talks-failure/
    www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4515821,00.htmlpo
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/magazine/13Israel-t.html?_r=0

    "Palestinian Authority Has stolen $ 31 Billion over 20 years... VIDEO
    What have they done with all the money received???"
    Most of the billions dollars of foreign aid was siphoned off by Arafat and PA officials known as the old guard. Considering that there isn't a desire from both sides to solve sides. Best path might be what Thomas Friedman said in 2009 which is not supporting both sides until there is desire from both sides to solve the conflict. If that is the best path that would include cutting off aide to PA and Israel along with labeling settlement products if not banning them; hundreds of millions of dollars are funneled to settlements through charitable foundations that should be illegal as settlements are regarded as illegal under international law.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...s-suggested-israeli-palestinian-conflict.html
    http://foreignpolicy.com/2010/07/20/time-to-crack-down-on-settlement-funding/
     
  9. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    You evidently and conveniently forgot Netanyahu's public boast about deliberately derailing Oslo.

    Here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl60X_jOsR0

    Baloney?
     
  10. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    I forget nothing friend! And, I will not forget the 3 Million Jews killed under Polish watch either!

    Bibi was visiting a bereaved family that lost a member of their family to terrorist Arabs and he said what he said, does not mean a thing.
    Do you follow what MP George Galloway says daily in the parliament?
     
  11. Heinrich

    Heinrich Active Member

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    I agree with xavierphoenix (Post #3) that the "Oslo Accords don't seem relevant anymore ..." They were always doomed to fail because they were designed by the United States and Israel to keep the Palestinian Territories forever under occupation. How the PLO did not understand this at the time is bewildering and that Arafat did not sign his own death warrant by agreeing to them is a miracle. The PLO made all the concessions and the Israelis gave nothing. In the meantime, the occupation has only become more solid, Gaza has been turned into a destroyed besieged ruin subject to periodic massacres of children and civilians while the West Bank is an 80% no-go area for Palestinians who are allowed to police their own poverty in a series of deprived reservations. My only question is why the Oslo Accords were not declared null and void before the ink was dry on them.
     
  12. xavierphoenix

    xavierphoenix New Member

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    None of what said addresses the issues including Bibi admitting that he attempted to derail Oslo Accord. Your comment about Poland and the holocaust has no relevance to this discussion as no one wants that to happen ever again and the PA doesn't want to destroy Israel and has maintained security coordination with Israel for several years. The issue here is not about George Galloway nor did I ever say I supported George Galloway who was close with Saddam Hussein. I know you are referring to motorist that was recently killed after he lost control of his car in Jerusalem after stones were throw at him. However, no Palestinian leadership was behind attack. Palestinians are constantly attacked by extremist settlers with UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs reporting a rate of 399(93 in which they were injured and 306 when property was damaged) settler attacks in 2013 and roughly same amount for 2009-2013 with latest attack in Duma leaving a 18 month old child and his parents died(this isn't the first time extremist settlers have set fire to Palestinian homes during middle of night either). Other actions like increased use of house demolition(590 buildings in 2014 displacing 1,177 people including 76 half of them children from January 20-22 2014 and is highest since UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs started monitoring it in 2008) means there will always this state of tensions with the Palestinians as long as there is nothing suggesting occupation and actions associated with it like house demolition and extremist settlers ending.
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/settle...ign-of-terror-on-unarmed-palestinians/5366169
    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/02/israel-demolished-palestinians
    http://972mag.com/settler-violence-it-comes-with-the-territory/85996/
    http://972mag.com/never-enough-evidence-to-convict-price-tag-attackers/110807/
     
  13. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    You mean demands, compromises and pre-conditions that were acceptable to nobody but Israel? Like the adamant refusal to negotiate on the illegal 'settlements' in the Occupied Territories, for example, or the right to Palestinian self-determination?
    Palestine's time is coming; full statehood recognition is just around the corner along with all its relevant legal aspects. As of April 1st this year Palestine joined the ICC and was thus permitted to refer any Israeli transgression to an ex parte tribunal at the International Criminal Court...

    http://www.orienthouse.org/dept/reports/Le Monde.htm
    http://972mag.com/how-icc-membership-could-revive-palestinian-statehood-at-un/104842/
     
  14. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Just <Baloney talk> a) illegal
    b) Occupied
    c) Self determination for Arabs? Yes in one of the 22 x Arab States.
    Palestinian time is coming, yes they are coming to the UK to do what they have been doing in Sweden and Norway... raping blond maidens...
     
  15. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    Which parts are "baloney"; those which you don't like hearing because they are the truth?
     
  16. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    What part of truth do you understand???
    The Polish truth or the UK truth both are based on deception.
    There is no such a thing as <Palestinians>... this is one truth.
    The Brits were given 2 x Mandates one the <Palestinian Mandate for the Jews> another truth. And another called the <Mesopotamian Mandate called Iraq today> where Kurds were not even considered... that is another truth...
    Seems to me that the truth and you have taken different directions.
    The Mandate for Palestine is Jewish <all of it> if you like this or not. And this is the truth!
     
  17. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    The mandate no longer applies. It is ancient history. And what the hell has Poland to do with anything? Oh, yes, it's your pathological obsession with us being evidenced, predictably, yet again. I'm flattered that you find us so interesting. Now, please explain how this alleged 'deception' is manifested.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine#Termination_of_the_Mandate
     
  18. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    The Mandate no longer applies??? Is one of your and many others fallacies which you and many others base their rambunctious deceptions on.

    The Mandate is basic and it is for the reconstitution of Israel not the creation of it, mind you.
    <Reconstitution> of Israel, capice? The word Palestinian was coined in 1964 by Abdel Nasser and Arafat to give substance to their fallacious cause. And you because you hate Jews go along with the idea. Remind me to give you a medal!
     
  19. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    wrong again!!!

    The Arabic language newspaper Filasteen (est. 1911), published in Jaffa by Issa and Yusef al-Issa, addressed its readers as "Palestinians"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians#Etymology
     
  20. xavierphoenix

    xavierphoenix New Member

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    We have been through this all of Palestine was never promised to the Jews this is the truth. The mandate promised a Jewish home in Palestine it's indisputable that Israel is a Jewish home in what was Palestine thus mandate fulfilled. Even Israel's declaration of indepedence says the mandate ended

    "WE DECLARE that, with effect from the moment of the termination of the Mandate being tonight, the eve of Sabbath, the 6th Iyar, 5708 (15th May, 1948), until the establishment of the elected, regular authorities of the State in accordance with the Constitution which shall be adopted by the Elected Constituent Assembly not later than the 1st October 1948, the People's Council shall act as a Provisional Council of State, and its executive organ, the People's Administration, shall be the Provisional Government of the Jewish State, to be called "Israel". "
    http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPo...tion of Establishment of State of Israel.aspx

    Not that you care even Israel's Supreme Court ruled in 1950, "The territory of the state of Israel does not coincide with all the territory under the former mandate."
    http://articles.latimes.com/2009/dec/16/opinion/la-oew-scobbie17-2009dec17

    Are you going to spew facts or evidence or just keep spewing falsehoods?
     
  21. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Has nothing to do with the Oslo accord that Israel deliberately torpedoed. You're <quid pro quo> = <something for something> ended because Israel ended it. And when Israel refuses to end their ethnic cleansing and occupation means that Palestine is now taking their rights at the UN. And they are getting them there as well. Israel hardly has any friends there that support occupation for the sake of ethnic cleansing and expanding colonies.
     
  22. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Of course a <Jewish Home> because this was and is the home of the Jewish people from time immemorial!!!

    Correct... the translation is lacking substance... In Hebrew it means after the termination of the Mandate, it does not mean after the extinction/burial/annihilation of the Mandate.

    Correct again, but the meaning of the court purposefully mentions that the size of the Mandate promised to the Jewish people has been shortened by the <creation> of Trans - Jordan 77% of the Mandate

    I Just corrected your transgressions in what pertains to historical facts!
     
  23. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Yes of course... a little knowledge is calamitous...

    In 1911 everyone was Palestinian... I own a Palestinian Passport in addition to a Mandate for Palestine birth certificate... Everyone was Palestinian... I mean the Jews, the Arabs, the Christians, the Druze, the Metwallis, the Copts,and many other minorities that came to these shores to work for the Mandate authorities, building roads, encampments, military camps and airport... Now you are better of than when you started...
     
  24. xavierphoenix

    xavierphoenix New Member

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    "Correct... the translation is lacking substance... In Hebrew it means after the termination of the Mandate, it does not mean after the extinction/burial/annihilation of the Mandate."
    Termination means to end something, which means Israel's declaration of independence says that mandate ended.

    "Correct again, but the meaning of the court purposefully mentions that the size of the Mandate promised to the Jewish people has been shortened by the <creation> of Trans - Jordan 77% of the Mandate"
    The court doesn't say mandate promised to Jewish people have been shortened by creation of transjordan, it simply says that territory of Israel does not consist with all the territory(which obviously includes West Bank) under former mandate.

    "Of course a <Jewish Home> because this was and is the home of the Jewish people from time immemorial!!!"
    There is nothing that says Jews have exclusive rights to Palestine. International law is not governed by religious texts. Sovereignty of states along with self determination in international law determines that. Just because an ancient Jewish state existed doesn;t mean they have exclusive right to it. By that logic Russia can claim Crimea along with all of Ukraine and former Soviet Republics, by that logic Iran can claim Iraq,Kuwait etc because they controlled it in ancient times as part of the Persian empire. Israel which is a Jewish state along with their borders was recognized after 48 war for their fight for independence. Under sovereignty of states West Bank is not Israeli territory(as acquiring territory during war and then annexing it post WW2 is not considered legal with Jordanian annexation of West Bank after 48 war not recognized by the world with both East Jerusalem and Golan Heights annexations not recognized. Under self determination West Bank would belong with the residents which would be the Palestinians.

    Also, again the mandate didn't promise Jews all of Palestinians; it promised a Jewish home in Palestine which Israel is thus fulfilling mandate.

    "I Just corrected your transgressions in what pertains to historical facts!"
    You have not.
     
  25. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    I wanted to clarify the Hebrew translation but you want to have the last word... I hope you enjoy your fifteen seconds of fame.
     

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