If Israel disappears Very interesting and unusual article by a Palestinian! Finally this Muslim Arab Mudar Zahran tells it in a pragmatic way, down to earth and real for a change, instead of the daily degrading threats and projections by many Arabs waiting for the Jews to disappear i.e. fantasy land... Israel is here to stay and accommodations by the Arab world is forthcoming if all of us want to live in peace. HB ~by Mudar Zahran Brilliant article by a Muslim Arab We Arabs have wasted seven decades of our existence awaiting Israel's demise. It is time to think of the future, and whether Israel's "disappearance" should be our ‎ultimate wish.‎ Since 1948, we Arabs have been taught that all we need to do is get rid of the Jewish state, and ‎everything else will go well after that. Our dictators took full advantage of this idea. Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser locked up and executed his opposition members ‎using his famous excuse: "No voices are to be allowed except for those for the war with ‎Israel." Iraqi President Saddam Hussein adopted the Palestinian flag and had it ‎printed, distributed and flown alongside his own flag, and even said, "Palestine and Iraq share the same ‎identical cause." In short, we Arabs have put 70 years of our existence on hold while awaiting that ‎‎"glorious day" when we defeat Israel and "feed the Jews to the fish." But that day did not come, nor does ‎it seem to be coming, as Jordanian opposition figure Emad Tarifi once told me: "It seems the fish in ‎the sea are not betting on us feeding them Jews." ‎ In addition, we Arabs have given our dictators carte blanche to impoverish, terrorize, oppress and ‎destroy us all in the name of "the great Arab struggle to end the Zionist entity." The outcome of this has ‎been clear: While Israel made 10 new breakthroughs in cancer and cardiac treatments in the last two years ‎alone, we Arabs developed new execution methods. The latest is death by drowning in a cage, as ‎shown in an Islamic State group video two weeks ago.‎ We Arabs have wasted seven decades of our existence awaiting Israel's demise. It is time to think of the future, and whether Israel's "disappearance" should be our ‎ultimate wish.‎ Being the son of two Palestinian-Jordanian refugees, I find myself inclined to fear for the future. Regardless of my stance toward Israel, I have to think: What would happen if, one day, Israel were to disappear? While it does not seem feasible, it is the day around which entire Arab political, social and economic systems revolve. ‎ It is not only Arabs who want Israel gone. There are others who seek the same, for ‎example anti-Semites in the West. Just last week, neo-Nazis marched in London with swastikas and the Palestinian flag. The organizer of the march claimed it was a protest "by all of those ‎who have suffered because of Israel." There are groups calling for a boycott of Israel "for ‎the sake of the Palestinian people." There are countries whose entire foreign policy seems to revolve around opposition to Israel. We ‎Palestinians might have believed that these groups and countries actually care about us, but they take no interest in the fate of the ‎‎150,000 Palestinians being starved to death in Syria's Yarmouk refugee camp, nor in an estimated ‎‎5.8 million Palestinians in Jordan (as indicated by a U.S. Embassy cable) who live as second-‎class citizens and are banned from government jobs and any form of state benefits while paying full taxes.‎ If these Israel-haters got their wish to see Israel disappear, what would ‎happen?‎ First, Israel is the only reason Iran does not yet have nuclear weapons. Iran could buy the ‎technology to produce them, or could learn it quickly the way Pakistan did. Why has Iran been slow in ‎doing so? Because it learned a lesson from the experience of Saddam's Osirak reactor, which Israeli jets reduced to rubble in 1981.‎ Then, almost everyone, including George H. W. Bush who was vice president of the United States at that time, were furious ‎with Israel's move. But 10 years later, when the U.S. fought to liberate Kuwait, ‎the situation would have been totally different if Saddam had kept his nuclear program -- and the only reason ‎he did not was Israel.‎ Further, Iran already controls at least a third of Iraq and its resources through a pro-Iranian ‎regime. If Israel were to disappear, Iran would extend its influence into Jordan, Kuwait and Bahrain ‎the next day, as it would not have to fear an Israeli reaction. Iran could then bring the world to its knees by reducing oil ‎production. Iran is not the only evil power in the Middle East: We also have Islamic State, which has now spread across ‎Iraq, Syria, Sinai and Libya, with clear ambitions to enter Jordan. Islamic State has not entered Jordan yet, and this is not ‎because of any fear of the Jordanian army. After all, the Global Firepower website ranks Jordan's army at ‎the same level as the Iraqi army, which Islamic State has defeated many times. Islamic State does not dare enter Jordan for one reason only -- its fear that Israeli jets would catch up with it 15 minutes later.‎ If Israel were to disappear and be replaced by a Palestinian state, the Palestinians would most likely end up ‎with another Arab dictatorship that oppresses them and reduces them to poverty. We have partially ‎seen that with the Palestinian Authority and the "liberated" areas it rules. I regularly visit the West ‎Bank and have interviewed scores of Palestinians there. I can confirm that, as much as they hate ‎Israel, they still openly yearn for the days when it administered the West Bank. As one Palestinian told me, ‎‎"We prayed to God to give us mercy and rid us of Israel; later, we found out that God had ‎given us mercy when Israel was here."‎ To those Arabs, Muslims, Westerners and others insisting that Israel must be erased from face of the ‎planet, I say: Don't bet on it, as Israel is becoming stronger every day through its democracy and ‎innovation, while Arab countries are getting weaker through dictatorship and chaos. And be careful ‎what you wish for, because if you were to get it, you too would most likely disappear, unless you ‎yearn to be ruled by Iran or Islamic State.‎ In short, if the day were to come when Israel falls, Jordan, Egypt and many others would fall, too, and ‎Westerners would be begging Iran for oil.‎ We can hate Israel as much as we like, but we must realize that without it, we too would be ‎gone.‎ Mudar Zahran is a Jordanian-Palestinian who resides in the U.K. Source: http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_opinion.php?id=13113
If Israel were to disappear, Iran would extend its influence into Jordan, Kuwait and Bahrain ‎the next day, as it would not have to fear an Israeli reaction. Iran could then bring the world to its knees by reducing oil ‎production. Absolute BS... Who is this moron? Iran's oil production is the lowest its been in decades.
Name dropping again? It will not help you this time... Go Google Mudar Zahran and learn something new. Besides the extravagant copy and paste of some articles on Archaeology...
Iran isn't going to take over the Middle East which has a Sunni majority.. I don't really care who he is.
As much as I dislike the source(it's israelhayom Bibi's freenewspaper that loses money that is funded by multi billionaire Shelson Anderson) I do like the article. Like the article points out Israel is here to stay and any one that says otherwise is mistaken. However, most people aren't calling for Israel to disappear(some here seem to think calling for Israel to withdraw from most of West Bank to mean the same thing when Israel has survived without West Bank and against 5 Arab armies in 48 and 3 in 1967, in contrast holding onto West Bank means Israel can't be a Jewish and democratic state, Israel's security experts like former Shin Bet head and many high ranking IDF generals like Ehud Barak all say this). For example Abbas in the past has negotiated with Israel and under Olmert and were months away from a deal but ran out of time to solve differences with Bibi refusing to go back to point of 2008 talks. There is also Arab peace initiative which all 57 countries of Organization of Islamic Cooperation support which includes normalizing relations with Israel in return from withdrawal from territories(this has been amended to include land swaps). Hamas which while has desire to destroy Israel; however due to realities of running de facto state in Gaza since ceasefire ending Operation Pillar of defense in November 2012 for the most part have ended attacks against Israel with most of the rockets(which has substantially declined since November 2012 ceasefire except during July-August 2014 period) launched from ISIS aligned groups opposed to Hamas(exception to Hamas launching rockets was after crackdown on Hamas in West Bank in July-August 2014 during operation brother keepers in response to Hebron Hamas cell acting independently kidnapped and killed three Jewish teenagers).
Well yeah, why kidnap a living being and kill it. Obviously the perpetrators are (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s.
You are not pragmatic a) there is no such a thing as <West Bank>... West Bank has never been a State before sooooooooo you speak nonsense!
You are not pragmatic a) there is no such a thing as <West Bank>... I'm not pragmatic when you are the one that refuses to give up any part of West Bank(or as you prefer Judea and Samaria whatever someone calls it the facts that I cited still stands) even though it condemns Israel into a an apartheid or bi-national state? Do you know the definition of pragmatic? "West Bank has never been a State before sooooooooo you speak nonsense!" I never said West Bank has been a state before(the reasons why Palestine has never been a state since historically empires have ruled the area, also countries have been formed when before they never were a state, for example most people on this form are from United States which wasn't a state when it became a country ) nor does it change or address the facts like international law, Israel not being a Jewish and democratic state if occupation continues etc, I cited.
Hey there... Why is it according to you and those that follow your trend...The duty of Israel to <create> yet another <revanchiste> Arab state in addition to the 22 already in existence most of them created this past century for their Self determination? You are nudging the <only> democracy in the Middle East because you could not demand this from the KSA... you would lose your writing arm and your tongue. From Syria and Iraq you would lose your life...
The Palestinians have paid for the Holocaust in Europe with their land and blood.. Now you want the Saudis to clean up your mess??? And , you want holocaust reparations for the third generation because Mt Sinai hospital claims their DNA is imprinted with PTSD..
"You are nudging the <only> democracy in the Middle East because you could not demand this from the KSA... you would lose your writing arm and your tongue. From Syria and Iraq you would lose your life..." How am I calling to nudge the life of the only democracy? The occupation makes it impossible for Israel to be a true democracy as it means there are two different Israeli societies one is Israel within green lines where Jews and Arabs are equal under the law(though not in practice although Israeli-Arabs live in only free society in middle east and have higher living standards than most other Arabs) and Israel controlling 2.7 million Palestinians under military law in the West Bank while Jews living in nearby settlements are under civil law. The one state which far left and right both support annexing all of West Bank which would give them all Israeli citizenship is making a binational state of two communities that have fought each other bitterly since 1920's and overnight would give Joint List(coalition of Islamist, Arab nationalists, and communists that nearly left Meretz to die in last election by refusing to sign a vote surplus agreement with them) a plurality up 48 seats(since roughly 40% of Israel's citizens would be Arab, meaning that would also eventually turn Israel into an Arab state so the only way for it to not be is to withdraw from most of West Bank unless you approve of apartheid?) in the knesset and growing. This is likely not to work as history of binational states like Yugoslavia, Lebanon, Iraq, and Syria is not promising. We are not talking about Syria, Iraq, or Saudi Arabia(to be fair military aide to Saudi Arabia and other Arab states should be cut off given there human rights records but not much else could be done considering there is no good alternative since there is no secular democratic organized opposition in these countries). I also view Israel as part of Western democratic world(at least within green lines part) which the occupation contradicts. To summarize the differences between the two Israeli societies Israel within green lines and Israel in West Bank here is excerpt from previous post describing it "When settlers attack Palestinians generally with impunity(399 cases of settler attacks 93 of them in which Palestinians were injured and 306 property damaged roughly for each year from 2009 to 2013, in a Yesh Din study 90% of hundred of cases examined did not led to indictments, 96% of investigations involving trespassing did not lead to an indictment, 100% of cases examined involving property offenses were closed without indictments, and 79% of assault cases examined were closed without indictment, ), when settler leaders of Itamar, Yitzhar, and Kiryat Arba(chief rabbi for yeshiva there in a rabbical ruling said Baruch Goldstein who massacred 29 Palestinians in 1994 is holier than victims of the holocaust) all are authors of or have endorsed King's Torah which allows non Jews to be killed including children, when Palestinians are restricted in building with 70% of area C completely barred from Palestinians to build in due to classifying it as state, survey, nature reserve etc. lands, when Palestinians are rarely permitted to build due to low approval rating(5.6% approval for permits between 2000-2012 and 1 permit approved in 2014) and low master plans approved(to date 90% of villages in area C have not had master plans approved by Israel, few plans approved cover one half of one percent of total land area of area C), when Palestinian buildings are often destroyed as a result of these restrictions(509 in West Bank including East Jerusalem displacing 1,177 people, in January of this year Israel destroyed 77 building displacing 110 people roughly half of them children), when Palestinians are under control of military court system that most agree is unjust where Palestinians have a 99.7% conviction rate, when Israeli soldiers are sometimes killing unarmed Palestinians where they didn't pose a threat and aren't punished like in the case of Saleh and Muhammad Qawarik; here is excerpt from the case "The chain of events, leading to the moment in which an anxious soldier fired 29 bullets into the bodies of the two cousins, Saleh and Muhammad Qawarik, farmers who woke up early that morning to work their land, shows the null cost of Palestinian lives in the occupied territories. This involves the dubious initiative of a settler with a vast criminal record, one hyperactive shooter and three soldiers who do not remember anything, having managed to miss all 29 shots.", and when you have a Jerusalem marked by inequality and building restrictions(areas that could grow Palestinian neighborhoods are expropriated for Israeli neighborhood and public infrastructure and undeveloped areas are classified as open landscapes or parks which also restrict Palestinian neighborhoods) along with several Arab neighborhoods attached to Jerusalem denied basic services like trash, education and health care due to being to outside fence and part of area C, as long as all the above is still happening, then there will be violence between Israelis and Palestinians with ending occupation the only way to stop the violence long term." http://www.globalresearch.ca/settle...ign-of-terror-on-unarmed-palestinians/5366169 http://imeu.org/article/state-sanctioned-incitement-israels-extremist-rabbis http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/palestinians-west-bank-demolition_55af1787e4b0a9b94852fa25 http://www.btselem.org/topic/planning_and_building http://www.yesh-din.org/userfiles/file/Reports-English/SemblanceofLawfullreportEng.pdf http://972mag.com/conviction-rate-for-palestinians-in-israels-military-courts-99-74-percent/28579/ http://972mag.com/license-to-kill-why-did-the-idf-shoot-the-qawarik-cousins-29-times/106767/ http://972mag.com/special/license-to-kill/ http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...-palestinian-areas-municipality-services.html http://972mag.com/an-education-in-inequality-for-east-jerusalems-children/78337/ http://www.ir-amim.org.il/en/issue/urban-planning "Hey there... Why is it according to you and those that follow your trend...The duty of Israel to <create> yet another <revanchiste> Arab state in addition to the 22 already in existence most of them created this past century for their Self determination?" The Arabs aren't the only people with one ethnicity having multiple countries as United States, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada all have origins as English countries. All of Latin American countries are mestizo(most population of these countries are European-native American descent due to Spanish conquests couple hundreds years ago). The most important reason is there no other way for Israel to be a Jewish and democratic state than to withdraw from most of West Bank. Unless you don't believe in democracy and having a Jewish home?; there is no other way.
Iran controlled syria for years, with an 85% sunni population. Iran runs gaza, with hamas as its pet, with a majority sunni population. Facts much, dear?
Remind us again why, amongst the entire planet, the fakestinians are "special" and "different" than all of the other so-called refugees? Why do they need 75 years of welfare? Why do they get a UN agency dedicated to only them?
. Hey if you persist and think the <Fakestinians> deserve a country of their own out of the perimeters of the Jewish State ask them then to come and take it for everything is on a silver platter... only these fantasy dreams might turn against them and destroy their dream in a moment. The moment Abu Mazen (the man who orchestrated the Munich massacre) abrogates Oslo I and Oslo II this will define the end of these Fakestinians...
False statement and fake historical facts... The land was bought and paid for in full by Jews! The Arabians called Saudis today will need Israel's help before anyone could utter <Jack Robinson> otherwise they will be forced to speak <Farsi> very soon.
"The moment Abu Mazen (the man who orchestrated the Munich massacre) abrogates Oslo I and Oslo II this will define the end of these Fakestinians..." You are correct that Abu Mazen financed Munich massacre. However both sides aren't innocent with Israel having elected prime ministers before that committed atrocities. Mainly Ariel Sharon who as pointed out on this forum before committed Qibya and Bureij massacre in 1953 and recently revealed in 1972 while head of Southern command ordered explusion of 3,000 Bedouins during middle of freezing night for military exercise causing 40 to die mostly elderly, children, and babies, and Menachem Begin who was became head of Irgun(during Arab revolt 1936-1939 bombed Arab market places and buses) in 1944 an organization that committed terrorist attacks like Haifa oil refinery and Damascus gate attacks. How will Abbas abrogating Oslo end the Palestinians? Oslo accords has become irrelevant due to settlements increasing and actions like house demolition increasing while Bibi not committed to genuine negotiations. What rather would you want the Palestinians to do, try to end occupation through violence or through another intifada? You never addressed anything I said including "the most important reason is there no other way for Israel to be a Jewish and democratic state than to withdraw from most of West Bank. Unless you don't believe in democracy and having a Jewish home?; there is no other way" So by your silence you either don't believe in a Jewish home if so why don't you want a Jewish home? or you either believe in and support apartheid? If so why do you support apartheid?
