Catalonian Parliament votes to move towards speedy independence

The Catalonian Parliament voted today to start the move towards independence.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ssion-plan-in-showdown-with-spains-government

The Catalonian people have the same right to self-determination as all other nations. I hope they succeed.

 

there is not a Catalonian People...there is the Spanish People... and the self-determination right doesn´t exist save for Colonial Dominions what not the case... Catalonia is part of Spain as Mecklemburg is part of Germany or Lincolshire is part of England...

 

So do I !



Visca Catalunya lliure!

 

[video=youtube;HRDFXOS6r7U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRDFXOS6r7U[/video]

 

Catalan people and culture are different than the Spanish people and culture, denying that is exactly one of the reasons why the Catalan independence movement has been growing a lot in the past years. The Spanish government should have given them a referendum on which they should have decided to be independent or not. The UK did it with Scotland, Canada did it with Quebec, what was the big deal of doing one in Catalonia?

Also, keeping Spain as a unitary country doesn't work anymore, they should have turned the country into a federal one a few years ago. Eventually they'll have to do that, I believe... Perhaps without Catalonia, which only happens because the Spanish government has been ignoring this situation for too long.

 

Except Mecklenbug and Lincolnshire dont have a seperate langauge

Cathalunya is more Akin to Wales where there is a mix of English and Welsh speakers and there is certainly a welsh people

 

The fact that there is a Catalonian nation is plain for everybody to see.

 

No, Catalonia is not like Wales... never it was a country, and about the language, not even was named Catalonian till long time later. No region have more autonomy than Catalonia... and "a language" means nothing. In fact, in Catalonia was in Banned is to study in Spanish Language.. what is banned is to labe in Spanish Language.
The Sovereignty is in the Spanish People..and a little 37% that means not more than 8% Spanish People can´t decided by the other 92% remains.
No Catalonian people because what is Catalonia always was joined with the Rest of Spain...no difference... language? Asturias, Galicia, Aragon, Navarre, León etc etc have their own languages (as Murcia etc ) and are not countries at all.
Catalonia today is the result of a social engineering process and totalitarism begun in 1980 and it was bolder from the nineties... it is the only place in the world where a Castilian family born in Catalonia think the "catalonian" is his own language. Spain lived a process (medieval repopulation and Ninettenth inner migrations) did not different people in Spain.
Is it Cornwall or Cornualles in Britain? Is it possible to study in English Language in Pezance or is banned as in Gerona?

 

No, Catalonia not is a nation only because a gang of victims of the social engineering and the pedagogy of Hate thinks that... the Soverignity belongs to the Spanish People and only the Spanish People will decide... not a gang of CUP´s fanatics and bribed Convergencia... for sure.

 

The right to self-determination is a legally defended right for all NATIONS anywhere in the world in the UN Charter. Catalonia is clearly a nation, already autonomous. They will be independent, and so they should.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_language

they have their own language

that is a strong basis for independence

 

Independence for Catalonia is inevitable, its only a matter of time and probably won't be very many years from now. The case is overwhelming, Scotland slightly less so but is also likely to be independent within about 15 years. Europe is changing once again, with the break-up of Yugoslavia, the Soviet Union and the reunification of Germany there were a lot of changes 25 years ago, but it has been relatively stable since then, it is about to undergo some more changes, there are lots of regions and autonomous areas and nations exploring independence in various countries.

 

Scotland doesn't have a seperate language spoken by 40% of the people.

Catalonia, does.

 

That's completely irrelevant, language doesn't come into it at all. Scotland has been a nation for a thousand years, has its own church, legal system, education system, shared culture, history, and does infact have a language too. The USA didn't have a language of its own and became independent, language really isn't any indicator here.

 

Most Scots can't speak Gaelic

 

True. In fact this was discussed and fully documented on an earlier thread.

 

Again, totally irrelevant as I said, language doesn't come into it. This is why when you are an outsider looking in you should really observe and learn and ask questions if you want to understand, instead of wading in with facile nonsense.

 

no, its relevent

 

In your uninformed opinion. And, even if it was, is merely one small factor. Why did the USA become independent? You have no language, surely you should still be controlled by London then, what a ridiculous state of affairs, a country that is independent without its own language, how do you even leave the house for the shame?

 

says.....you

 

Uh huh. You're going on block now.

 

unique language is one of the important elements of a "nation".

its not mandatory, but it helps a lot.

 

The right to self-determination is only for dominions and colonial territories. In fact, the legal text set forth that right it is in the Resolution 1514(XV)/December 14, 1960 and it is very very clear: First the right it is about people are in colonies or dominions:
Recognizing that the peoples of the world ardently desire the end of colonialsim in all its manifestations,

And in its item 6th declares: Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes aknd principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

Catalonia is a region in Spain from the begining of the history.. from the Roman Time... never it had a different history and it is a constituent and constitutive part of Spain.
The Spanish constitution (197 voted in Catalonia by the 92% people, declares:

Section 1.2. National Sovereignty belongs to the Spanish People, from who all State Powers emanate.
Section2. The Constitution is based on the indissoluble unity of the Spanish Nation, the common and indivisible homeland of all Spaniards; it recognizes and guarantees the right to selfgoverment of the nationalities and regions of which is composed and the solidarity among them all.


So it is clear that Region can not have any self-determination right and breaks the Constitution and the Spanish People sovereignty rights. So, I can´t imagine a Catalonia out of Spain... It never happened and it won´t happen, I think.

 

First, Catalonia lacked of "unique" language... Spanish widely spoke in Catalonia from XV-XV centuries... So, according with your "thought"... USA is not a country.. there you can hear English, Spanish y some areas Danish, Swedish, Italian, etc etc and of course, we can´t forget Lakota, Navajo etc etc.
A "language" is not a "nation".. so, a man from New Hampshire, Nigeria, Leshoto and Lancanshire are "the same nation"...if a "language" is a "nation".. .a man from Nuevo Mexico, La Mancha, Bolivia and Ecuatorial Guinea are "the same nation"... and however, a Belgian is not a belgian.. but or a Frenchman or a Dutchman... Swiss don´t exist.. they are German, Frenchmen or Italian... and the Austrian are German...

And about "one language" is a nation.. you say France is not a nation... because in France there are different languages: The langue d´Oc in the south, the langue d´Oil in the North, the Breton in Bretagne, the German and Alsacian in the East, the Flamish in the North-west, the Basque in the South-West, the Limousin or Catalonian in the South-east, the Italian in Savoie and Nize.. the Corsican in Corsica

And in Italy, they are different languages too: the German in Trento, Trentino and Adigio, the Sicilian in Sicily (Specially the Norman language spoke in Messina, Catania, Siracussa , Etna etc...the Alguer in Sardinia etc etc etc

About Catalonian in Catalonia was spoke but less than 20% population in 1900.. However today thanks to the Constitution and the ban to learn in Spanish language in School (and to label in Spanish) (Social Engineering), the Catalonian is spoke by the 50% population (however, the other 50% can´t learn in their mother language)...
If Scotland ban to lear in English and to write in English... for sure in 25 years, the "Gaelic" will be spoke by 100% population and English will dissapear... in Scotland or in Wales or in Cornwall etc etc Totalitarism and Social Engineering..

Really, Catalonia is not a country and never it will be. It is Spain as Majorca or Galicia or Bilbao or Toledo.

 

If Catalunya votes for indepence then the Catalunyan provincial government will declare a unilateral declaration of independence. Then what exactly will Spain do? Send in troops?