Despite Australian gun ban. Illegal market flourishes

http://m.thenewdaily.com.au/news/2015/11/10/australias-secret-gun-problem-exposed/


Large increases in illegal firearms trade in Australia. Gun control advocates now looking to add ammunition laws. Proof that gun control is a losing argument.

 

Australia:
3,050,000 guns, 40 gun -related murders (2012)
99.99869% of the guns in Australia are not involved in a murder.

US:
300,000,000 guns. 8142 gun-related murders (2014)
99.99729% of the guns in in the US are not involved in a murder.

Difference between the US and Australia:
0.0014%

 

I think you exaggerate the percentage for America, because you underestimate the number of guns.

 

Likely. I usually figure conservatively because there's absolutely no reason to exaggerate.

 

I think your missing the larger point buddy. Gun control has had little to no effect in Australia. So why would we try that here as our liberal counter parts would have us believe.

 

Gun control works in Australia. That's why there's a black market. Crooks have no hope of getting a firearm legally so they use the black market.

 

Really?
See post # 2.

 

As an australian and from my experience in the justice system.

Gun control laws are used as like a back up, when they can't prove a bloke is into drug trafficking or killed someone or whatever, they get them for something like illegal guns.

I would prefer that the gun control laws were more actively enforced and stricter. None of this licensed gun ownership stuff. I would like to see police actively trying to put people who own / purchase and sell guns in Australia put into jail with a higher priority then the war on drugs.

 

Which I believe has been our argument from the beginning....doing away with something just makes the black market version more viable....eh?

 

You are an island nation and you have this black market issue. Can you imagine the U.S. (With its porous borders) trying to implement your policy? Criminals killing criminals over black market drug wars is significant here. Just think of the killings if we had a thriving gun black market.

 

I agree that could be a potential shocking outcome.

Although kind of ironic, if you have criminals shooting criminals over the right to sell guns.

But my suggestions are never meant to be just read in isolation for city/state/country, but more as a way of thinking for humanity as a whole.

 

Which only illustrates your failure to understand human nature.

 

This thread is timely, because Klinton has said publicly that the Australian ban/buy back would be worth considering for the U.S. I think this would backfire on her in the biggest way. If conventional guns are to become illegal anyway, the black market here would include a whole lot more than the banners ever thought they could control.

 

yeah gun control works-it keeps honest people from getting guns-not criminals. that is-after all-the point of gun control. disarming good citizens

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they don't care because stopping criminals is not their real goal

 

If you are walking around in public with a gun in australia (and are not a policeman / armed forces) you are in a bad way.

The gun control argument is one to reduce deaths / injuries as a result of guns. Every life is precious, that life could be yours or one of your friends or families. The stopping of criminals, as a side issue, would only reduce the gun related crime as a side effect. I imagine non gun related crime would by and large remain on the same path. Because non gun related crime is absolutely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

 

that doesn't make any sense. in the USA the gun ban movement is about the desire of left-wingers to punish right wing groups for voting against left wingers

 

I am not in the USA, so I can't really comment, suffice to say.

If true, it is sad that your political discourse has reached such a point.

If not true, perhaps the tin foiled hat needs a rest.

 

You don't know the half of the political discourse in the US.
The left is moving further and further to the left and is moving toward socialism.
The right is moving more toward the middle.
Guns are but one pawn in the fight to control the votes.

 

And here, you're not.
Why? We don't have an irrational fear of law-abiding citizens with guns.

 

There's a direct relation between gun-control and high rates of violent crimes that is too evident to ignore. Gun-control only serves to do the opposite of what it is supposed to do, hence I call for a universal legalization of firearms. With proper background and psychological checks of course.

When you think about it, it is pretty obvious. One would be less likely to attack someone with their own gun if they knew that the planned target or someone in the surrouding might be carrying as well. Infact, horrible events such as the Aurora-shootings, any school.shooting or even frigging 9/11 could all have been prevented with relaxed gun control laws. "But, wait a minute! Is not all of those a result of civilians carrying guns?" True. It is the result of civilian psychopaths carrying guns, deciding to use them for the wrong purpose. However, these psychopaths could have been stopped if just- for Aurora- one of the visitors would've had a gun too, that way he/she could've shot the psycho before he got the chance to kill more people. With relaxed gun laws, maybe a teacher would've had a gun and that way school-shooters would not be able to kill as many as they do today. The same pattern goes for what Breivik did, this recen guy in Sweden who killed school-kids with a sword. As for 9/11, if pilots would've had a gun they could've killed the hijackers on the spot. Also, we'd probably see a decrease in the rape statstics. Maybe not necessarily in attempted rapes, but surely in performed ones. Afterall, statistic proves a Swedish woman runs higher risk of being raped than an AMerican woman.

The funny thing when discussing this in Europe is that the most usual argument is "Do you want it like in America where they have shoot-outs every week?!" Little do they know that most of these "shoot-outs" occur in states with restrained gun-cntrol. Swedish citizens are not even allowed to own destroyed, non-working guns. Not even if it is solely as a hobby of collecting. Yet our violent-crimes-figure is rather high.

Most people are mentally stable. They would not, out of the blue, pick up their gun and aimlessly start to shoot random civilians. Infact, if gun-control is motivated with the potentiality of a psycho going bezerk on the streets; kitchen knives, axes, screwdrivers etc should be outlawed too. If Psycho-Joe has decided to go and kill his neighbor he'll just go bring the axe and head for the neighbors house. Furthermore, criminals do not care a bit about gun-control laws. They have very easy acceess to arms anyways. Only one gun-control works on is the ordinary citizen. In addition gun-control laws makes it harder to identify weapons and to find the murderer. So it is only the criminals who benefit from gun-control. A very baroque situation.

It is true that gun-control is very contraproductive. It is true, especially for Europe, that fewer guns equal more violent crimes. I.e. Germany has a much larger population than Luxembourg. Germany has quite relaxed gun-laws where Luxembourg sees a total ban. Yet the violent crimes are 10 times higher in Luxembourg. Over the last few years UK have worked really hard to ban guns and the result has been a huge increase in violent crimes. The "Western" country with the lowest murder numbers is Austria, in Austria 1/10 citizens own a gun. The myth of "relaxed gun control= more murders" is thus completely debunked.

Source:
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

 

I know Canada has a problem because of the availability of firearms in the States. Your open market creates problems for them. But that's your business and theirs.

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The point of the legislation here is to control lawful firearms. It's got nothing to do with honest people and everything to do with suitability to own and use a firearm legally and to be a responsible owner and user.

 

Does your country have some violence-related issue with law abiding people and lawful guns?

 

Come now if you are going to use such strong language.
You have an irrational tolerance for items of death and destruction.

 

an interesting read.

What has been the effect on violent crime since the above countries like sweden enforced their bans on weapons??

 

You totally blew it here, I'm going to use this quote EVERY time you comment on US gun law.