I am a 14 year old living in VA, and I believe that it is unconstitutional to play the Pledge of Alliegence over the loudspeaker every morning and tell everyone to stand, face the flag, and recite the pledge. It goes against the first amendment (speech) to not inform people that they are not required by law to stand and say the pledge, and instead patriotism is forced upon us. In addition, the two words in the pledge of alliegence "under God" should not be a part of the pledge as it goes against the freedom of religion. I would like to change both of these things in my school and county. Any ideas on how to go about that? (Sorry if this is in the wrong forum)
It seems everyone is going to have likes and dislikes. There is plenty of controversy about the Pledge of Allegiance especially with the establishment of religion clause. I think the best thing to do, in my opinion, is to just go with the flow. In other words, stand up and recite the Pledge of Allegiance with your classmates. I know when I go to a baseball game, I don't like to get up out of my seat especially when I have a meal on my lap when "The Star-Spangled Banner" is playing, but I do it out of courtesy and respect. Also, I don't want to get nasty looks from people if I am the only one seated
Thank you for your opinion (sorry if that came off sarcastic), but I am past the point of going with the flow. I believe that it is wrong and that it is my right to stand up for it, so I will.
Perhaps informing the school that the phrase "Under God" is politically incorrect and should be changed to "Under Gods" because we all know there are hundreds of gods.
How about stop being a spoiled brat, respect your country and stop thinking you know everything. You are a child... you should only change your diapers, not your school.
All that you can do is go to the powers that be and make your case known. The pledge predates me and I am 50 so it is entrenched in the fabric of our system and will be extremely hard to change if it is even possible in the current political climate. Pick your fights... like the old song goes "you got to know when to hold then, know when to fold them, know when to walk away and know when to run."
Isn't questioning authority normal 14 year old behavior? Better that than just sitting back nodding and blindly accepting everything you are told is the absolute truth.
Politely, peacefully and respectfully. In other words, better than many adult protestors. I’d first establish what kind of support you have for the idea among other students, teachers and parents. As a lone voice you won’t have much chance but with strength of some numbers you’ll be much better off. Talk to your parents about it if you haven’t already. It’s not really about getting permission (though if they strongly object I’d listen to them) and it’s not about getting their help, but if there is anything that comes back on you and reported to them (fairly or not), it’s much better if they’re already aware of the situation in the first place. Then you need to work out exactly what you want. Is it about the right of individuals not to take the pledge or are you trying to have it removed entirely. Even if you’d like the latter would the former be an acceptable compromise? Request a meeting with the relevant authorities – principal, administrators, school board or whatever. Go with your information, evidence and requests clearly laid out and make your case. Be prepared to listen to compromise solutions and be prepared to be simply turned down. If they do refuse, there is likely to be higher levels to appeal to, though there may be more formal procedures to follow at that level.
As an atheist, the best advice I could give you is to calm down. Sticking it to the religious people doesn't actually get you anything. Getting rid of the "under god" in the pledge accomplishes nothing tangible. It's symbolic, much like the "under god" part itself is. After you challenge it, all you're really left with is a bunch of people mad at ya, either for challenging something they care about or because they just see it as kind of a dick move in general, which is how I see it. And that's from experience because if the internet had been this way 18 years ago when I was your age, I would have been posting something exactly like you just did. I actually did stop standing for the pledge in my school when I was a teenager. I wouldn't try to be obnoxious or call attention, I would just read or put my head down and let the people who did want to do it be able to without disruption. I wasn't mad at the pledge or my school, not really. I was mad at authority in general, I was mad at control. At the risk of sounding like what 14 year old me would probably have thought of as an obnoxious know-it-all here, this is a bit of a stage. It's not really the pledge or having to stand that you're mad at, but you're too young know that yet. You're too young to even know how young you are. I sure as hell didn't. So my advice is simply, don't be hasty. Don't push back at something just to have something to be pushing back at. Think about what you're doing, what it will accomplish, what will be gained and what will be traded. The problem with following your heart is that sometimes the heart has no idea where's it's going or whether it should go there, it just knows it needs to. Brain must step in to temper the passion of the heart, as well as aim it so it can be used efficiently and effectively. Now, if we were talking about love, that's another matter entirely...
When I was 14 I was bitterly opposed to the pledge also. The very idea that reciting by rote some pledge would make me a 'better American' offended me- still does really but I rather have calmed down about it now. It makes some people feel more secure. Now I either go along with it- because I know me saying means nothing- or stand silently and let others feel better about reciting it.
They still do that? I'm amazed. If I were adverse to reciting the pledge, I would quietly abstain. Only when I was challenged by authority would I raise a stink about it. But, pick your battles, young warrior. Reciting the pledge is the very least of your worries, especially in the "public indoctrination system" to which you have been forcibly committed. Question authority, be skeptical of their teachings, think for yourself, use the internet to cross-check everything, read opposing views, and learn to play the game into which you were born (in particular, study the magical properties of "compound interest").
You have a mean streak. Even after all these years I still bear the mental scars from that sadistic torture
Did I really just read that?? Wow! Is this how most young teenagers feel about our country now a days? If so, then our nation is past being in the toilet, its already made it to the septic tank.
I agree with that. If one doesn't like something, and can quietly handle it in a manner such as that; that should be the way to go about it. If there are others that enjoy doing something that one does not... the one that does not should not try to destroy it for others.
It is not unconstitutional to my knowledge for them to say 'Please rise and say the pledge...." You are seeing it as an order, when it can also be seen as an invitation. If you want students to know that they are not obliged, then you can educate them qnd you can cite court cases that support that position. I am 100% in agreement with your right not to say a pledge, but it is not the school's responsibility to present your case for you. You do the work. When I was your age, ( I am agnostic/atheist) I chose to stand out of respect because a lot of the message in that pledge that I could respect , but did not cite it, myself. I think you should reread that pledge and ask yourself, not just about what you disagree with on principle, but ask yourself about what you can agree with, and then make your decision.
Many 14 year olds want to be a rebel. Yes, you can refuse. Probably they'll be a hassle with the school personnel but they'll likely yield to it and not make you say it. Whether you get harassed by other students is another matter. Your objection certainly isn't anything new or unique and most schools don't do that anymore. If it is a private school or organization you are out of luck. They can require virtually anything as a condition of attendance or participation. What do you hope to accomplish? If its something you HAVE to do, then do it. But no matter what you decided to do and decide not to do in life the consequences are yours. This will likely define you to other kids - and no one is required to like you. But some other kids probably would agree with you. If you are hoping that life is fair or there is some inherent force to protects truth and justice, rethink that opinion. Nor overrate the importance of high school much. Once you graduate all but your grades and what you learned becomes irrelevant. It is hard for most high school kids to understand that when high school ends other than the knowledge you gained and the grades you made the rest is all but irrelevant to your future. Probably you would better serve yourself by spending that time on studying, learning more and making better grades. You would NOT be pioneering new ground by any means.
The phrase "under God" was not added until after WWII and to set the USA apart from the heathen communists. Setting aside the "God" part, I hope most Americans are still glad and proud to even be able to be an American and entitled to say the pledge of allegiance as an American. I am.
What Hotdogr said.... I too was opposed to the pledge at your age, still am. "Pledge allegiance to the flag" it's dumb, I love my country, always have, but a pledge of allegiance to a flag is to me anti-freedom and thus anti-American. Allegiance is blind faith, freedom is not. The under god portion bothered me as well, but not as much. Now if it could be reworded to something more along the lines of "swear to protect and defended the constitution....." or a singing of the Anthem that would be much more acceptable. As for what to do, I stood, put my hand over my heart but stayed silent, it didn't strike me as something worth getting in a battle over. You have bigger battles to fight in todays institutions of liberal indoctrination we call schools. IF you fear it will become an issue do your research and prepared with the facts. For example my understanding of the history of the pledge in school is that it originated with a flag salesmen who saw it as a way to sell enough flags to have one in each classroom.
Welcome to the adult world. Notice how many of the 'grown ups' on this forum have said things to the effect "You are only 14, you know nothing, don't rock the boat just sit over there and be quiet, we know best" They and I are leaving this world soon, as we all will lose to the greatest force in the universe, the calender. Look around at the world that we will be leaving you, and you will see that we have made a complete balls up of it. Sorry that this is what you will inherit and I hope you can do a far better job than we did. You can learn a few thing from adults though, by reading the observations from men of history who made a difference. [video=youtube;uCQIMtmJzqs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCQIMtmJzqs[/video]
I'm gonna let you in on a little secret: I think the pledge is a load of BS too. Always have. So don't recite it. In fact, don't even stand if you don't want to. But I would highly suggest showing respect for those who do choose to stand and recite it. There are alot of strong, arguably irrational, feelings surrounding the flag and you could find yourself getting hurt if you rock the boat too much. I speak from experience. I was a kid once too, and a very rebellious and angry one. My 'statements' regarding the pledge and the flag were far from appreciated. People take their fabric seriously that's all I will say lol.
it's disrespectful to the children to tell them there is or is not a God, not the schools place if this was a one time thing in history class, would be one thing, but daily religious propaganda over the loud speaker is nonsense .
You have a Constitutional Right to refuse to recite the Pledge of Allegiance so here is an idea - refuse to do it. I don't care it its a public or private school your rights don't disappear at the doorway.
You could ask if the "Pledge" could be reverted to his original version until 1941,when it was changed because it had been copied from Harvard Cheerleaders by Ernest Sedgwick Hanfstengel, the PR advisor of Adolf Hitler and introduced as "Hitler salute" in Germany. Then it quickly will be abandoned. https://sites.google.com/site/danie...was-nazi-salute-of-german-national-socialists
I just hold my breath during the 'under god' portion of the pledge. I personally believe that people who aren't yet adults shouldn't be pledging allegiance to anything, but I see this as being too small to make a big deal over, so I usually just ignore it. This sounds like a sarcastic "Ha ha! you're so politically correct!" statement. Do you have an actual argument? If people aren't taught to use their rights while growing up, then they won't use them when they're adults. Why do you think so many college students want to revoke free speech? You sound like the kind of person who would say "My country, right or wrong." which I believe is one of the most blind statements a person can make. If a citizen of the United States sees their country do something wrong, then it's their responsibility as a member of a free society to change that. That is what this teenager is trying to do, and you need to stop trying to shame them with nationalism. As for the "You're too young to have rights!" argument, read the response to my previous quote.
