Islam and non-believers

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Ronstar, Nov 22, 2015.

  1. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, I just started fully reading the Koran today.

    and right off the bat, the Koran seems to REALLY hate non-believers and idolaters.

    it makes no qualms about stating that idolaters and non-believers are blind, arrogant, stupid, deaf, and will be punished very severely once they die.

    however, it doesn't simply state that they will face punishment from God upon death.

    it also states the following:

    "Fight for the aake of God those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. God does not love the trangressors.

    Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is more grevious than bloodshed..

    Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reign's supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil doers"



    This looks like a call for world domination, as most idolaters and non-believers are accused of evil-doing in the Koran.
     
  2. godisnotreal

    godisnotreal Well-Known Member

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    There's also plenty of stuff in the bible that hates nonbelievers. But Christians just generally ignore those parts. But if you go back to the 12th Century, they didn't. And you can bet your bottom dollar, that the Christians would have killed you back then for being a nonbeliever. ISIS is just practicing Islam the way Christians practiced Christianity back in the 12th Century. They're just a little behind the times.

    But just goes to show you - Islam, Christianity - a lot of these religions are essentially the same.
     
  3. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the tone against non-believers in the koran is a lot more extreme and angry, than in the bible and Torah.

    the koran says "there is no compulsion in religion", but then goes on to constantly rant about how evil and bad and sinful idolaters and non-believers are.
     
  4. godisnotreal

    godisnotreal Well-Known Member

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    I dunno, this sounds pretty extreme and angry to me:

    "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." Deuteronomy 13:6-10
     
  5. haribol

    haribol New Member

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    This is a primitive idea and i do not how modern Islam cope with it. I support Sufism and they are liberal and not dogmatic. They are nonviolent and they are devotional. Whereas I do not subscribe to any religious ideas but I support some of the things religions all over the world.
     
  6. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Lol, it clearly says "but do not attack them first."

    Next.
     
  7. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    well, according to the koran, since the Christians kicked the Muslims out of Spain, Portugal, Greece, Serbia, Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Austria, Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, the Muslims can fight ALL of the Christians in these nations.

    this is according to the koran.
     
  8. CJtheModerate

    CJtheModerate New Member

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    You reversed your position pretty quickly.

    When did he mention Christianity?
     
  9. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Dude, the Qur'an is a book of guidance. Why are you obsessed with 100 out of 6000 verses that relate to warfare that happened 1500 years ago?

    So Christians obsess over the amalekites? I don't think so.
     
  10. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I want to understand those who seek to destroy me.
     
  11. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Lol, you think those illiterate cavemen read the Qur'an?
     
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    For you to read the Qur'an is an outstanding way to come up with the Ronstar version of Islam.

    However, that version isn't nearly so interesting as, say, the mainline Sunni version of Islam.

    For that, you need to consult mainline Sunnis.
     
  13. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    cavemen haven't existed for tens of thousands of years
     
  14. aubreyjack24

    aubreyjack24 New Member

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    If you're trying to understand those who seek to destroy you, you first have to establish which people seek to destroy you. I'm assuming you're talking about ISIS (or... who are you talking about actually?), but you're ignoring the fact that ISIS members make up a tiny, tiny fraction of people who are Muslim, jumping straight to the Qur'an, and then assuming that, on a first reading, you're accurately interpreting a text which has sparked more debate as to its meaning and significance than almost any other text in history. Come on, man. You're not trying to understand people who seek to destroy you. You're skimming an ancient religious text for excuses to demonize people you have absolutely no interest in understanding, and now you're trying to convince yourself that your first impressions of the Qur'an are objective proof of previously held assumptions.
     
  15. godisnotreal

    godisnotreal Well-Known Member

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    He didn't. that's my point. If you're going to criticize the koran for crazy stuff that's in it, you have to criticize the bible as well, cause there's an equal amount of crazy stuff in the bible.
     
  16. haribol

    haribol New Member

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    True, to judge all Muslims, and their sacred Koran based on what a handful of terrorists did is disrespectful. Islam like the the rest of other religious thoughts Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism is faith and a large number of people are associated with this faith. Most Muslims like most Hindus, most Christians, most Buddhists are peace loving people. But when a faith is smeared with a political stuff it becomes corrupt. Sufism, a Muslim sect is full of wisdom I find it greatly illuminating. Do not quote anything from Islam and interpret unless you can fully understand it.

    I personally am a nonbeliever but I respect all religions equally though I was born into a Hindu family. To believe or not to believe a faith is a personal choice but I never relinquished attending religious or cultural rituals , functions and pleasingly attend them people of whichever cultures invite me
     
  17. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We do...but, the Christians just complain and whine about persecution and a war on Xmas. They refrain from blowing people up and killing because someone drew a cartoon of Moses. Christians may be silly adherents to a very old and confused God....but that God does not inspire them to brutal violence,
     
  18. CJtheModerate

    CJtheModerate New Member

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    Christianity is irrelevant to this discussion.
     
  19. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Prove it. Give me every verse that commands Christians to murder non-believers.
     
  20. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Cool. The next time someone talks about murderous communists from the 20th century we'll bring up atheists, too since communists are atheists.
     
  21. Sunspear

    Sunspear New Member

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    Ronstar, not all Muslims seek to destroy you. You'll find that the Koran is both peaceful and draconic at the same time, striking the middle ground between the Old and New Testaments.
     
  22. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    not recently. secularism has calmed them down in the past couple of hundred years :)

    - - - Updated - - -

    don't forget to include Norway and Denmark, when you bring up evil atheist regimes :)
     
  23. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Are Norway and Denmark run by mass murderers?
     
  24. godisnotreal

    godisnotreal Well-Known Member

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    except that atheism has just as much in common with communism as Christianity does. You can be an atheist communist just like you can be a christian communist. one has nothing to do with the other.
     
  25. godisnotreal

    godisnotreal Well-Known Member

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    Deuteronomy 17
    If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
     

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