The Ultimate Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by usfan, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    In a fictional novel of the last century, pan-dimensional mice created a supercomputer, called Deep Thought. They asked it The Question: 'What is the ultimate answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything?' The computer said it would think about it (for 7 1/2 Million years!), then finally returned The Answer: 42.

    This is the absurdist's view of philosophy. It is funny as a bit of self deprecating humor directed at philosophers who take themselves too seriously. It implies there is NO answer, really, & that life has no meaning or purpose. But other philosophers throughout the millennia have approached the subject with more reverence. They have boiled down the Fundamental Questions of Life into 4 basic queries:

    Origins
    Meaning
    Morality
    Destiny


    These are The Big Ones. How, Why, What, & When. They are questions of matter, purpose, law, & time.
    HOW did i (and everybody else) get here?
    WHY are we here? Is there a purpose to our existence?
    WHAT do we do? Are there rules for our existence?
    WHEN we die, what happens? Is there a soul?

    Some philosophers have felt it necessary to prove we exist, first, before the other questions can be tackled. Descartes was one of those with his 'cogito ergo sum' conclusion. 'I think, therefore i am'. So now that the matter of our existence is settled, we can now get on to the more basic task of answering the fundamental questions. Personally, while i think '42' is a fine answer, it does a bit of a disservice to the philosophical community. It is ridiculing the question as irrelevant, which it certainly is not. Every human being that thinks has pondered these questions, or variations of them at some point in their life, even if they avoid them most of the time.

    I see 2 basic options for Origins:
    1. All matter & life was created by an unknown being or beings: Supernatural Design.
    2. All matter & life happened by accident, via unknown natural processes: Natural Accident.

    We try to use science & logic to decide which of these is the more likely, or what the evidence suggests, but nothing really works. Science cannot answer this. We cannot see or define any natural process that could have done it, so we are left ONLY with belief in either theory. Neither are subject to the scientific method.. they can't be repeated or observed. Oh, i know that there are many people who believe very strongly in a particular theory. They dogmatically assert that a divine Being created everything from nothing, or they dogmatically assert that everything arranged itself by accident, through unknown processes. But neither has any provable evidence. Both theories are logically impossible. LIFE is impossible. The universe is impossible, yet here we are.

    The naturalists like to ridicule the supernaturalists for believing in a 'sky fairy' or other unseen beings as the source of all things. But the naturalist's theory is equally absurd. Someone once summarized their hypothesis like this:
    'The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.'

    Of the fundamental questions listed, Origins is the MOST BASIC of the questions, & the answer to this one affects all the others.

    IF we are here by an accident of nature:
    1. There is no purpose to our existence. 'Why' is meaningless.
    2. There are no rules. Morality & law are inventions of our own minds.
    3. There is no destiny. You die & cease to exist. As you did for eternity past, so you will not exist for eternity future.

    IF we are here by Supernatural Design:
    1. There might be a purpose. Why would such a Being do this?
    2. There might be rules, from the Creator's view. Perhaps there are consequences to our words & deeds.
    3. There might be life after death. We may have souls, & live beyond what we see here.

    As you can see, there are completely different answers to the other fundamental questions, depending on the answer to the very first one: How. That is why a person's view of Origins is the foundation upon which their entire world view is built upon. Most people are content to have a disjointed, hodge podge of irrational thought, faulty assumptions, and wrong answers to base their philosophy of life upon. But that is because the MOST BASIC QUESTION, our origins, is unknown by any of our natural senses. We have to start with a belief, & go from there.

    There is no empirical answer to our origins. There are no natural laws, or scientific explanations that can even make a decent guess as to HOW we came about. We are here. Descartes settled that for us. But HOW we came about remains a mystery, unanswerable by human reason & senses. If there is an answer to this question, reason & science cannot answer it.

    Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.
    ~Albert Einstein
     
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  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Personally.... I am of the belief that intelligence did not occur first in four dimensional space time but instead arose in fundamental or nearly fundamental energy.

    That life form / forms / Form / Forms.........… have been extremely busy since then....... and are not primarily theologians but are mostly inventors, scientists, philosophers....... who seem to have an extremely high degree of respect for freedom of choice........... and the ability for angels, aliens, humans, animals and all other sentient life forms, to learn a great deal from our errors.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/scien...ionary-theory-divine-feminine-god-mother.html

    Theistic Evolutionary Theory and The Divine Feminine/God The Mother??!!



    The masculine and feminine thought and behaviour patterns may have a basis in theoretical physics.

    http://www.grandunifiedtheory.org.il/gender/g1.htm





    http://www.grandunifiedtheory.org.il/book/life1.htm

     
  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If we begin to look at the possible or probable higher intelligence as an inventor and scientist.........… and take a look at the Stanley Milgram Ph. D. experiment to explain the existence of evil as a test for all of us......… then the seeming injustice in the universe - multiverse......… begins to make a lot more sense.

    http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/experiences/mellen-thomas-benedict.html#a05

     
  4. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I think many need an answer to life's big questions as a basis to build their lives upon, while others are OK with contemplating the unknown.
     
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "The naturalists like to ridicule the supernaturalists for believing in a 'sky fairy' or other unseen beings as the source of all things. But the naturalist's theory is equally absurd. Someone once summarized their hypothesis like this:
    'The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.' "

    actually it's more like this

    Energy always existed and evolved into what we see today

    a God always existed and created everything we saw today

    energy is less complex then a all knowing God, so Energy is more likely to have been the first thing

    now maybe

    Energy always existed and evolved into a God (Aliens), that then created what we have today :)

    Mormons believe humans will become Gods, and create universes of their own

    .
     
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  6. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    well, energy does not really 'evolve'.. it 'devolves'. It is always moving to a simpler state. Randomness rules in the universe.

    Lots of people believe lots of weird stuff.. which was my point here. :D

    You don't KNOW that 'energy always existed'.. you might assume that, or believe it, but you have no way of knowing this empirically.

    IF you assume the naturalistic view of the universe, it seems to me that there are NO organizing processes to bring matter together. What is matter, anyway? How does it exist? Billions of eons ago the universe would have scattered all matter to such distances our minds can't even grasp it. DISSIPATION is the main rule of the universe. Organizing requires intelligence. HOW could it come together for a 'big bang?' How is there matter, anyway? And then you have life. A tiny planet in a tiny solar system has the very delicate balance of conditions that can even support life as we know it. This started by accident? Impossible! Life is impossible. The universe is impossible. God is impossible. Our abstract conversations about these bizarre events is impossible, yet we do it anyway.

    The universe is much too amazing & complex to try to limit it with dogmatic assertions of how it has to operate. Who is man, to claim such omnipotence?
     
  7. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    Actually, i think MOST people have a basis that they build upon. It might not be well thought out, or even be rational, but it is theirs, & they will defend it to the death! But a lot of people prefer NOT to think about matters of eternity, infinity, life, & death. it is too troubling, & upsets their happy thoughts. :)
     
  8. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    How? Of course, asking 'how' is easy. How is there a god? How is the universe here? How can there NOT be a god?

    But what is the philosophical basis for this belief? Why would intelligence be preceded by energy or matter or anything?
     
  9. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Life is hard....Then you Die.

    Think about it.
     
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  10. Chronocide Fiend

    Chronocide Fiend Active Member

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    Life is hard, but don't worry; The time passes quickly, and when it's over, I bet you'll forget the whole thing.
     
  11. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Morality is a human created construct and it is variable.

    AboveAlpha
     
  12. Grugore

    Grugore Active Member

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    One thing is perfectly clear. Information rules the universe. It controls every aspect of creation. From the universal physical constants, our universe assumed the physical characteristics it possesses. If even one of those constants was off by a small fraction, we would not exist.

    So, one is faced with a question. Where did this information come from? The only conclusion one can reach is that it is the result of a intelligent mind. From nothing, comes nothing. So something caused the physical universe to exist.. or Someone.
     
  13. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I am not trying to be mean but what you are posting has no line of logic to it.

    You state...."Information rules the universe."...end quote Grugore.

    What information?
    How is this information stored or existing?
    How does information rule?

    And our Universe did not come from nothing as the Big Bang is a White Hole which is always connected to a Black Hole and in this case the Black Hole existed in another Divergent Universal State of Reality.

    AboveAlpha
     
  14. Grugore

    Grugore Active Member

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    Information exists apart from matter and energy. It has its own existence. Even though it has no physical existence, matter and energy are subservient to it. So I ask again. Where did information come from? The only explanation is that it is the result of an intelligent mind.
     
  15. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Humans have the unique ability to pass on highly detailed historical information to their progeny via a highly developed vocal and and graphic ability. Whether the information relayed is true or not makes little difference because, for humans, there is no inherent perception of reality....Only what our senses are able to convey to our brains and only what has been successful in the preservation and progression of our species.
     
  16. Grugore

    Grugore Active Member

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    Information is not restricted to language. Information is intangible, yet it affects reality.
     
  17. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    It seems that Quanta itself can store information.

    This would be consistent with aspects of Quantum Mechanics.

    AboveAlpha
     
  18. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Information is communication and humans excel at that.
     
  19. Grugore

    Grugore Active Member

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    Information is not communication. Language is something that was created. It is used to convey information. Information exists independent of language. It exists WITHOUT language.
     
  20. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I didn't mention language.
     
  21. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yup....and:

    Life is hard~ Once you accept this, you can be prepared for difficulties and appreciate fully those times that are not....allowing time to smell the roses.

    Then you Die~ Knowing life is not a permanent condition leads to one knowing and loving that which we have, while we have it.
     
  22. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The initial energy of the big bang was converted via E/C^2 = M. Plasma, subatomic particles coalesced into atoms and molecules. Matter is a dense field of energy (Einstein). Massive clouds of hydrogen triggered fusion to produce helium. Helium fused to form carbon, and so on, by which stars produced the elements of the atomic table, a process of increasing complexity.

    Atomic behavior depends largely on the number of protons and electrons in the atom, but also on whether or not the outer electron shell is complete or incomplete. This is not a random process.

    Production of complexity reduces entropy. Life reduces entropy.


    Recently the astronauts discovered that small, loose particles of inert matter tend to aggregate. There is a basic law of attraction.
     
  23. haribol

    haribol New Member

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    It is a luxury to contemplate life and to talk about God, His creation and man’s origin. Was there intelligence originally? First we must think what intelligence is. Intelligence is nothing other than what we opined about the world we live in or have experienced and we cannot go beyond rise above the usual or go beyond what we have experienced. If God exists has He gone through any experiences to arrive at ideas? This is a stupid question and millenniums upon millenniums have passed and we have no answer to this question. However the luxury of asking questions never left man. I think we are not programmed to find out the truth we are seeking for. The question again arises as to who programmed us? This is again a baseless philosophical proposition, not a scientific or empirical reasoning of things. We are programmed not by any superintelligent being. We are programmed evolutionarily by going through a series of environmental mutations that comprise social, cultural, climatic, geological factors, all clubbed, and that is how we are evolved, programmed, conditioned to behave particularly. Man has evolved rapidly and the rest of animals could not keep pace with man and that why they could not is a question.
    And that is why notwithstanding all that scientists have claimed or against all their theories, there are multiple like Quantum Mechanics, theory of relativity, theoretical physics and the like, could or cannot answer the basic question man has been asking for millennia. They claim through quantum mechanics or the God particle or (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) particle whatsoever they name they have been able to arrive at certain facts about the universe. If they have arrived why they could not translate their theories or their findings into the understanding of the common man. Truth is simple and comprehensible and if one has really discovered it he could vent it in the language of everyone else.
     
  24. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    Yes, IF you ASSUME the naturalistic view. That was my point in the OP.

    But YOUR belief in this assumption is not empirical Truth. It is only YOUR belief. It seems rational that there is an objective reality that is indifferent to our beliefs. Beliefs do not make reality, but reality can influence beliefs, if there is enough information to extrapolate a conclusion. Unfortunately, regarding origins, the supernatural, & most of the mysteries in the universe, there is not enough empirical evidence to make any such conclusion. So we are left with conflicting beliefs.. all of them convinced of their own Truth, but with no way to prove it.
     
  25. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    We are born wet, naked, and hungry. Then things get worse.

    :D
    but if i dig deeper into the ASSUMPTIONS for these cute sayings, i see it is based on the presumption of naturalism. But how can you make such an assumption, with the vast amount of knowledge yet unknown? How can we assume we are at the pinnacle of knowledge, & there are not things yet unknown to us? Is that not arrogance of the highest order? Here is finite man, with a pathetic limited ability of universal observation & analysis, claiming to KNOW all these things. It is absurd.
     

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