Australian shipping???

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by garry17, Nov 27, 2015.

  1. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, let us see if we can have a discussion about a topic without the meanderings of the superficial lobotomised drones.

    This week amendments have been introduced into parliament by the Coalition in an attempt to repair the Australian shipping industry. Now ALP/Greens are blocking them stating that they wish to protect jobs. Xenophon (the ALP bastard child) is stating he opposes the policy changes due to Governments white paper on the subject stating that Australian shipping companies are better off reflagging off shore and hiring cheaper crew from other nations to be competitive.

    All in all, many in the cross bench along with the ALP/Greens are against the changes labelling JOBS as the main reason. BUT one must ask, since ALP/Greens changes to the policy requiring shipping companies to register and gain permits to load and unload domestically, prices have risen 60% and the Australian fleet have declined by 50%. Before anybody complains these are accepted numbers by all…

    So one could argue that the ALP/Greens policy is a complete failure cutting 50% of jobs already and a steady decline is continuing. It could also be said that the Coalition changes are to fix the problem while Australia has a shipping industry.
    http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary...fairs_and_Transport/Shipping_Bill_2015/Report From report.PDF
    One could also argue that by opposing such is killing industry in Tasmania, indirectly cutting more jobs.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-...g-bill-puts-port-development-in-doubt/6977868


    Now don’t get me wrong, I am not blaming Labour costs for this but the impost of government charges and regulations which could be attributed to the ALP/Greens appeasement of the MUA.

    Now this is extremely damming for the ALP and their pretence of job protections considering that 50% of Australian shipping is already gone, IF that was the single focus of this issue. HOWEVER, early in 2014 ALP/Greens moved a motion for international shipping supplying Australian transportation in Australian waters to pay Australian equivalent wages… This could account for the reduction of Australian shipping.

    The problem as I see it now is that no matter what is done, Australian shipping is beyond repair. That is to say, under current conditions Australian shipping cannot compete with international shipping and with the added costs to use Australian shipping over importing the product is far too prohibitive. What can be done to address the situation??? From what I see the Australian government has given up on the industry and are trying to save the enterprises remaining in a hope to rebuild something from the ashes…

    Any thoughts???
     
  2. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    I never really understand this mob.........

    Are you saying that it is the Greens/Labor fault that we do have high wages, which we don't need? That everything at Coles and Woolies is so exorbitant expensive because of those left wing bastards? So its all down to the Unions?
    Wouldn't it be great not to lose the shipbuilding industry? Haven't we lost enough, e.g. car-manufacturing?
    It is easy to blame the lefties, but it is them which guarantee John Normal his living. Never thought of that one, do you?
    It is a very complex situation, and I don't know the outcome or what to do to make it better.
    The last thing we should do however is it to leave to the Libs/Nationals, as their only effort will be to leave it to the markets to get sorted out by capitalistic mechanisms.
    Then we are really busted..................
    Regards
     
  3. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Oh and I thought we might avoid the meanderings of the lobotomised drones. This classic response just re-enforces the qualities of the poster...

    Perhaps, if you could actually comprehend what is being attempted to discussed here we could move on from the drone aspect and actually discuss the problem... BUT hey if your too involved in partisan politics to actually understand what a policy is, then perhaps you would be better off going to face book and joining your self-gratifying like-minded drones...

    Well considering that under ALP/Greens changes in 2012 to the Australian shipping act that (now get this, I wrote about it in the OP) Prices have risen 60% and reduced vessels numbers of 50% In 12 months... If you consider that ALP/Greens policy was to rejuvenate the Australian industry just on those figures alone, a complete failure... AND those figures are not contested by anybody...
    Now it is easy to blame everybody, if that is all you have. I was hoping for more, but this post just guaranteed me you have nothing more than your own hatred to espouse.

    Just to your jobs of Joe Normal, if you lose 50% of your domestic shipping, don't you think you have HALVED the jobs in shipping??? I see you could not join the dots on the most simple of points that you have to show your own ignorance while trying to persecute me for your failure...
    That it is, obviously you do not. Which makes me ask you one question "why did you respond if you have nothing to offer in discussion???"
    OH,I see you just wanted your hatred to be out there. As per usual nothing of substance just venom and vitriol.

    If you hate me so much that you have to respond in attempt to demonstrate your overpowering superiority over me, perhaps you should just put me on ignore. It is extremely weird (in your words) that you continue to oppose everything I say, just because I say them. As pointed out previously, you will even oppose your own stance if I agree with them and frankly that is obsessive. Perhaps you should rethink your thoughts on this forum…
     
  4. Adultmale

    Adultmale Active Member Past Donor

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    We should remember it was Labor who sold the Government owned shipping line, ANL, back in the late 80's or early 90's. I think it was Keating who flogged it off.
     
  5. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it was, BUT much water has passed under the bridge (so to speak and no pun intended). The shipping industry had much regulation to protect it in the past but as it comes to pass really the serious nature of downfall only commenced since 2012. In fact I don’t think any ALP/Greens member would be stupid enough to actually praise the policies of 2012.

    Shipping in Australia has grown steadily in privatisation over the years. Largely by protectionism but even under Howard with removal of many protects continued to grow. The Keating regulations worked well but was biased against Union interference and Howard kept most of those regulations only remove many of the protections. The industry went into decline due to areas such as the Tasmanian industry compensation for transportation (I cannot remember the name of the policy at present). NOT because of government intervention or anything else but pure and simply the industry sat on their butts and decided the government would continue to give them the edge.

    Since the industry demand continued to grow and the Australian shipping industry remained stagnant an opening for foreign vessels came about and the need to be filled to meet Tasmanian shipping requirements. Government had to find a way that was both constructive and sustainable. This was not achieved I believe, as industry was in extremely slow decline due to inefficiencies which were not addressed by the shipping industry itself.

    Opening to Australia the movement of intrastate freight in Australia was one way to address the short comings of the industry but I feel that the Australian industry expected the market to assist them in this area. The fact that foreign shipping did not have this problem and could simply sail in and out of Australian waters to address its own problems, left the industry flaying in its own inactions.

    SO along come the ALP/Greens to increase the speed of the demise of the industry by pandering to the MUA demands and trying to grant them overpowering oversight of ALL shipping in Australia, Among other things. True, the industry was always in decline due to the inability to compete on a global market, but that should never create policy to look after a parties or groups interests RATHER than the shipping industry.

    It would appear to me that the Coalition has decided to let the industry die( As in the OP) and attempt to build another from the ashes. However, I do not see ANY future policy arrangements that suggest such. While I agree that Australia should hang onto its industry (As I am loath to agree with CAT) I just don’t see HOW. If the government was to implement changes to actually save the industry how much would it cost??? Where would the money come from??? And probably the most important point, should we be supporting INCREADIBLY bad management of this industry just in attempt to keep it???
     
  6. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Ha,
    I know no one else does, but I do love you. Even if you never understand......
    As I tried to point out, its not done by Labor and/or Libs, we face a fundamental problem in our country, and it is not only due to high wages.
    Other western countries pay high wages as well, but they build cars and ships.
    Two of the three car manufactures announced closing down under the watch of the Liberals, why is that if it's the Greens and Labor to blame?
    So what is wrong here? The whole system needs a shake up, we are running out of puff.
    And I know you don't like it, but our capitalist view of the world is one part of the drama.
    Regards
     
  7. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    You really are having trouble comprehending what is said, aren't you??? I will try again,

    Now what you do not seem to comprehend is that the major manufacturers have told you already that they are leaving a non-sustainable situation before it costs them far too much. IF you wish to examine your claim of who is to blame for such loss in the car manufacturing think about this, TWO car manufacturers announced during ALP governance as well. WHO IS TO BLAME???

    We could count the number of industries who announced their departure from Australian shores and point to the governance they announced under but if you do not take into account their reasons and not the your partisan political reasons then you will continue to make the same mistakes until something pushes your ideology into oblivion… THAT is why talking about policy rather than playing the blame game is more worthwhile.

    Now that you have decided that Australia is reaching its limit economically and needs to change, just what does have to change??? Are you suggesting that government interventions and corruptions of the capitalist system need to stop??? What area needs to change???

    In you previous point you suggest that because the Coalition refuse to keep paying to keep industry in Australia they are to blame for the loss of that industry. However, the fact the industry needed government support to continue to exist in the market IS clear demonstration of failure of the system.

    Now if you would like to read the post above to AM you might actually get some insight on what is attempted. A discussion on policy NOT blaming who is screwing it up. Just because ALP/Greens policy failed does not mean they are to blame for the shipping industry decay as it has been overseen by several governments. So if you have something to add and not simply partisan politics present it, if all you want is to point to this and that insulting everything you seem to hate then keep it to yourself.

    Politics to you might be trying to lay blame and insulting everybody who does not agree with you (which is why Shorten is on the way out) but to some it is really about doing the best for the population. Discussion is important to find out what the people want, not just a reason to insult anybody who does not praise your opinions. Government is there to represent the wishes of the majority which seems lost on many at the moment. Government is NOT a business and should never be treated as such. Something I noted Howard did was change the majority of the population to consider that public assets that cost government money should be sold off. The fact is ALL government assets cost government money and government money is pure and simply the people’s money. That is to say, the government has no money so when they promise ANY money it is tax payers money they are giving away so if they cannot budget it with what they get in, they have to get more of it… Just to be on point here if the government make unfunded promises of increases to ANYTHING, the truth is they have made a promise of NOTHING. To then say if they cut that promise, they are cut the funding, they are telling lies. So to increase the funding of a programme to increase the compensation to Tasmanian industry for the shipping cost of their product BACK to mainland Australia without actually providing the funds then industry who situate their business to such an increase will make large losses thanks to the government who made the promise. Considering the ALP/Greens actually CUT that benefit to bolster other more public programs I don’t think you have a leg to stand on attempting to lay blame…
     
  8. Independant thinker

    Independant thinker Banned

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    I haven't the foggiest what you boys are on about, but it sounds simply fascinating. Btw I can build boats. Haha!
     
  9. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Yes we can build boats too, BIG fancy ones... :roflol: but can you run a freight industry on water??? Apparently the Australian shipping industry cannot, the Australian government cannot. BUT everybody wants to block others from trying... LOL
     
  10. Independant thinker

    Independant thinker Banned

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    You arent Aussie?
     
  11. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    What I AM and where I am FROM are irrelevant. Why do people need some predisposition to determine how they interact with people???
     
  12. Independant thinker

    Independant thinker Banned

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    Don't get me wrong, but the immense diatribes displayed on this thread are freaking me out. It's obviously an importantant. Why do we care about shipping? Its a real question.
     
  13. Independant thinker

    Independant thinker Banned

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    Well, my Nana respected Americans (though shed approve of me saying so, for I should stand my OWN ground) but I need t know why I should be beholden when I should be building ships?
     
  14. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Well if you have not noticed, many here are completely unable to understand how to talk about a policy (I know I am stating the obvious). Even on this thread one poster would like to take some stupid stance which actually has nothing to do with the topic at hand, so one must put the points in long diatribe in the hope to cut off stupid responses and argument on things that are irrelevant.

    Shipping is important to every nation so they can trade in areas they are incapable to satisfy themselves. One of the major issues of the GAZA is that it is Palestinian port access, every nation needs port access so shipping becomes extremely important to a nations growth and wealth…

    Australia being a consumer nation and completely surrounded by water MUST rely on shipping for products. BUT Tasmania is surrounded by water as well so trading domestically and export has added costs. Shipping on economies has always been important but in a global economy, well you can imagine…
     
  15. Independant thinker

    Independant thinker Banned

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    I realy like how passionate you are. Im upset that my nation refuses to manufacture. I need your help.
     
  16. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    I have no qualms on anybody’s nationality. I do have problems with people who would simply remain ignorant just to oppose somebody else. There are good, bad, ignorant, smart, those who want to think they are smart and those who do not know what smart is. This world is made up of all sorts of people from every nationality but the most important thing is that they deserve respect simply for existing until they do or say something to lose that respect.

    Nations also deserve respect but you do not shun an American, because you hate Obama’s guts. You don't kill a Cuban because Castro was a despot... People stand for what they believe in and discard what they do not. Never should anybody oppose something pure and simply because a person they don't like agrees with it...
     
  17. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure you would want my help, but needless to say, if your nation does not manufacture and it has the capacity, the people need to examine the reasons.

    For example, manufacturing could be cheaper in other nations which does behold to that nation. That is a cost issue that needs to be addressed before anybody can actually begin to manufacture. It could be lack of resources and so on.

    I believe the point is that here on this part of the forum you see people discussing one point and are incapable of understanding the impact of such a policy.

    For example. ALP and the Greens in Australia want to introduce a carbon tax... This in itself will impact the poor much greater than the rich. So people on these pages pretend they care for the poor while forcing them further into the poor house, taking away their opportunity. Blanket taxes should be opposed at every point if all the government is doing is making people more reliant on government to exist. That is paying compensation (welfare) to people to cover the cost of some tax.

    The government change from ALP to Coalition in Australia, during the introduction of the carbon tax. Fuel was to be hit by a 6 to 8 cent carbon tax on 1st July 2014 according to ALP/Greens own figures. The Coalition got rid of the tax and the fuel hike did not hit. BUT when the Coalition decide to re-index fuel prices meaning a .5 cent increase the ALP/Greens supporters all cried the ceiling down because it would hit the poor. Hypocrisy in the most blatant…

    BUT the point really is, that an increase to fuel prices does hit the poor directly and indirectly. Sure they pay more at the bowser, but they also pay more at the supermarket and corner store. Because fuel costs are ALWAYS passed on to the consumer and in Australia, shipping costs are large. Rural areas cost even more than cities because of the added shipping costs to get it to the customer… this increase cost to people on welfare putting greater pressure on the welfare budget, reducing the amount of money government has to assist in start-up of manufacturing in Australia. It is a never ending spiral that social welfare creates…

    In other words, it is sufficient to say, that anything anybody does on an economy wide scale affects everything else. The balance is to get it right and not make people reliant on government to survive and create the opportunity for manufacturing to exist not buy it to stay… That is in a capitalist system…
     
  18. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is it a bird? No is it a plane, NO WAIT......oh it's just Gazza.

    Shhhhh, I say this very quietly so I can let you into this little secret that's between you and I. Come a bit closer so I can whisper in your ear......"we discuss policy on here all the time. It maybe indirectly on occasions but it is discussed". You know what I'm saying?
     
  19. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    In come the ignorant, is there any point to the discussion of shipping at all??? NO, just the usual attempt at insult.

    And I really thought we could avoid the lobotomised, but hey, when the adults want to talk the children always have to stick their beaks in...
     
  20. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    Ignorant, patronising and arrogant.
     
  21. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Well as irrelevant as that is, do you think you could rise above yourself and contribute or is your only ability is attempts at insults??? I am guessing not, but hey surprise me...
     
  22. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All the things he accuses others of. Gotta love it but no use saying anything anymore. He's attempting to use the lines we used on him for years. We used them because they were true. He tries to use them for retributions sake. When he is able to fluently string a sentence together that doesn't sound awkward because his use of words, I think I'll be able to take him seriously. I'm starting to wonder if he is actually Pauline Hanson?
     
  23. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    :roflol: :roflol: seriously, You think I worry about what you think??? Your bigotry and racism disgusts me and your propensity to use the lives and deaths of others to score political points...

    No, sorry you’re a poor excuse for decent person. I would rather discuss things with people who can actually understand what a policy is. THIS being classic example, you have not even attempted to address the topic just sling your mud about in the hope it creates some sort of credibility. So please don't bother trying to take me seriously, I definitely don't care if you’re here or not... :roflol: :roflol:
     
  24. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    Hey I haven't accused anyone of anything, I just posted 3 words, but hey, if anyone wants to go trying on shoes.
     
  25. Independant thinker

    Independant thinker Banned

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    Everyone keeps yapping.
     

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