The Muslim Claim to Jerusalem

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by HBendor, Nov 27, 2015.

  1. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    The Muslim Claim to Jerusalem
    ~by Daniel Pipes
    Middle East Quarterly

    The Camp David II summit and the "Aqsa intifada" that followed have confirmed what everyone had long known: Jerusalem is the knottiest issue facing Arab and Israeli negotiators.

    In part, the problem is practical: the Palestinians insist that the capital of Israel serve as the capital of their future state too, something Israelis are loathe to accept. But mostly, the problem is religious: the ancient city has sacred associations for Jews and Muslims alike (and Christians too, of course; but Christians today no longer make an independent political claim to Jerusalem), and both insist on sovereignty over their overlapping sacred areas.

    In Jerusalem, theological and historical claims matter; they are the functional equivalent to the deed to the city and have direct operational consequences. Jewish and Muslim connections to the city therefore require evaluation.

    Comparing Religious Claims (Read the rest of the Article)

    http://www.meforum.org/490/the-muslim-claim-to-jerusalem
     
  2. Challenger

    Challenger Member Past Donor

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    Well the city is held sacred to all three monotheistic religions, all of whom emphasise the concept of "sharing" so I personally don't see a problem Zionists can have a "capital" city there and so can the Palestinians, neither side has a greater "right" to the place as far as I can see.
     
  3. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Tell that to the Arabs!!!
     
  4. Challenger

    Challenger Member Past Donor

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    The Palestinians, are currently OK with their half of the city being their capital, Israel was the one who illegally annexed all of it.
     
  5. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    There are no Palestinians period!!!!! This nomenclature was invented in 1964 by Arafat at the behest of Abdel Nasser... All were Palestinians during the Mandate like all were Ottoman during the 400 years of Ottoman rule... Jews, Arabs, Christians, Copts, Maronites, Bahais etc., were Palestinians under the British Mandate, all of a sudden the Arabs are the Palestinian ones and the hell with the others... hmmmmm
     
  6. Challenger

    Challenger Member Past Donor

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    Well at the moment 136 nations recognise the state of Palestine out of the 193 UN member states, roughly 70% of the world's nations, so claiming, "There are no Palestinians period!!!" is rather childish, don't you think? There was no state of Israel before 1948 but who cares about nomenclature, Palestinians exist, so do Israelis and both have a claim on Jerusalem. If I had my way, I'd evacuate the population, then nuke the place until all that was left was a large glass crater. That would solve this issue equitably, once and for all. Israelis would have their capital in Tel Aviv, Palestinians in Ramallah, job done.
     
  7. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    At last you understand, only some Zionists practice racial superiority anymore! Imagine a country where everyone was just Palestinian regardless of race or religion, shocking!:cheerleader:
     
  8. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Daniel Pipes is a notorious bigot and liar.

    his claims are shotty and ignorant
     
  9. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Apparently none of you know the History of Jerusalem (Urusalim) I am reproducing a paper on Jerusalem to give all a basic knowledge of history.


    JERUSALEM in History

    The site of Jerusalem was occupied during the Stone Age, but the aboriginal inhabitants were driven out in the period from 5000 BC to 4000 BC by a people who had advanced into the Bronze Age. The invaders, called Canaanites in the Old Testament, were a mixed people among whom Jebusites were dominant. The Canaanites came under Egyptian rule in the 15th century BC, during the conquests of King Thutmose III. Among the early records referring to Jerusalem are Egyptian tablets dating from about 1400 BC that name the city Urusalim. In about 1250 BC Hebrews from Egypt began their conquest of Canaan, the region to the west of the Jordan River. So powerfully fortified was Jerusalem, however, that it did not fall until more than 200 years later. In 1000 BC, some years after being anointed King of Israel, David finally captured the city.

    Jerusalem was and IS the Holy City of the Jews..
    .
    According to the Old Testament; David brought the sacred Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem from Kiryat Ye'arim (a holy place of the time, west of Jerusalem) and installed it in a new tabernacle, built a royal palace and other buildings, and strengthened the city's fortifications. Although David greatly expanded the Kingdom of Israel and made Jerusalem its capital, the city and the temple he built were quite modest. Solomon, his son and successor, improved the temple and enlarged the city. He built a city wall and many buildings on a scale of magnificence previously unknown in Israel.
    Solomon's Temple was destroyed and the Jews exiled by the Babylonians in the year 586 BC. In 539 BC, Babylonia was conquered by the Persians (see Persia), who allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem the following year. The construction of a new temple, or Second Temple, was then undertaken on the ruins of the old. Jerusalem was captured by Alexander the Great in 333 BC, and after his death it came under the rule first of Egyptians and later of Syrians. The Syrian ruler Antiochus IV attempted to wipe out the Jewish religion by destroying a large part of Jerusalem in 168 BC. This caused a Jewish revolt under the leadership of Judas Maccabees, a member of a priestly ruling family, the Hashmoneans (see Maccabees). He liberated Jerusalem from the Syrians in 165 BC and later extended Hashmoneans rule over a large part of Judea. Jerusalem became the destination of annual Jewish pilgrimage from the outlying area, since certain religious obligations could only be fulfilled in the temple. All Jewish sacred and secular law and power came to be concentrated in the city.

    Jerusalem during the Roman Period...


    This power was eclipsed with the conquest of Jerusalem in 63 BC by the Roman general Pompeii. Herod the Great became king of Judea in 37 BC. During his administration, which lasted until 4 BC, Herod rebuilt the temple, constructed a fortress, and enhanced other elements of the city. The retaining wall built by Herod for the Temple Mount stands today as the Western Wall. After Herod's reign, a series of Roman governors were installed. From AD 26 to 36 the governor was Pontius Pilate, who sentenced Jesus to be crucified for treason. The Jews revolted against increasingly oppressive Roman rule in AD 66, and they managed to hold on to Jerusalem in the face of siege until AD 70. In that year, the city was captured by Titus, son of the Roman emperor Vespasian, who destroyed the Temple, except for the Western Wall. The city suffered almost complete destruction during the rebellion (132-135) led by Simon Bar Kochba, following which the Jews were banished from the city. Under the Roman emperor Hadrian, the city was rebuilt as a pagan city, and its name was changed to Aelia Capitolina. Although the city effectively retained Jerusalem as its name, it did not serve again as a capital until Israeli independence in 1948.
    In the intervening years, Jerusalem gained stature in religious terms; in administrative and political terms, however, it remained relatively inconsequential. Under Roman rule, the city became a destination for Christian pilgrimage, and the Church of the Holy Sepulcher was built during the reign of Emperor Constantine (303-337). Roman support for churches and religious figures gave the city an increasingly Christian aspect.

    Jerusalem under Muslim Rule (NOT ARAB RULE) & the Crusaders...


    In 637, the city came under Muslim control following conquest by Caliph Umar I. The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque were soon constructed on the Temple Mount, with the Dome of the Rock standing on the site of the First and Second Temples. The *Seljuks, a Turkish dynasty, ruled Jerusalem harshly in the 11th century and continued to expand, especially toward Europe. In response to this expansion and Turkish control of places sacred to Christianity, Pope Urban II called the first of the Crusades, asking Christians to travel to the Middle East and fight to reclaim the Holy Land, especially Jerusalem. Jerusalem fell to the Crusaders under Godfrey of Bouillon in 1099. The Crusaders slaughtered many of the Muslim and Jewish residents and ruled with great cruelty until Saladin (a DRUZE) captured the city again for the Muslims (NOT the Arabs) in 1187. In 1517, Jerusalem was taken by the *Ottomans (were TURKS)*, who ruled it until the 20th century (see Ottoman Empire).

    During the period of Muslim control, the city was always part of a broader territory, ruled from distant imperial capitals i.e. Damascus, Cairo, Baghdad. Its economic fortunes fluctuated, but, in keeping with its marginal political status, the city was often poor and neglected. Its population grew slowly; estimates for the beginning of the 19th century are of fewer than 10,000 people. *Much of the growth came from Jewish pilgrims who settled in the city, and by the mid-19th century Jews were once again the majority. As the population grew, there was increased pressure on the housing capacity of the Old City. Jews began to build neighborhoods outside the Old City's walls, and nearby Arab villages expanded.

    Modern Period during World War I (1914-1918), the British swept the Ottomans out of Jerusalem and took control of the city in 1917. They captured a city that had spread well beyond the Old City walls but was still poor and underdeveloped. The British became the legal administrators of Jerusalem under the terms of a League of Nations mandate in 1922. In order to preserve the historical character of the area, the British immediately developed plans for its growth, which they tried to direct away from the area adjacent to the Old City walls. As the neighborhoods outside the Old City grew, a pattern of separation pervaded, with Jews and Palestinian Arabs exhibiting a preference for self-segregation.

    Modern Period during World War I (1914-1918),
    the British swept the Ottomans out of Jerusalem and took control of the city in 1917. They captured a city that had spread well beyond the Old City walls but was still poor and underdeveloped. The British became the legal administrators of Jerusalem under the terms of a League of Nations mandate in 1922. In order to preserve the historical character of the area, the British immediately developed plans for its growth, which they tried to direct away from the area adjacent to the Old City walls. As the neighborhoods outside the Old City grew, a pattern of separation pervaded, with Jews and Palestinian Arabs exhibiting a preference for self-segregation when possible, as they had in the Old City. The Jewish-Arab struggle for control of Palestine grew in intensity, and the friction among residents of Jerusalem increased as well. Jews and Arabs both sought to gain control in Jerusalem based on feelings of historical, political, and religious rights.
    In 1947 the UN recommended that the British mandate of Palestine be divided into a Jewish state and a Palestinian state, and that Jerusalem be made an international city. Violence erupted between Jews and Arabs in Jerusalem, and the UN plan was rejected. During the first Arab-Israeli war (1947-1949), called the War of Independence by Israel, forces from the Kingdom of Jordan pushed into the area to fight against Israel. Jordanian forces succeeded in occupying the eastern side of Jerusalem, including all of the Old City. The Jewish residents and forces were compelled to withdraw, and at the conclusion of the fighting, Jerusalem was divided; the new state of Israel had control of West Jerusalem, and Jordan controlled East Jerusalem.
    The dividing line was subsequently fortified, fenced, and set with land mines, and the city remained divided in this manner until 1967. During this period, the Jewish side of the city grew as Israel developed its national government and built up the institutional life of the city. In 1950 Israel proclaimed Jerusalem its capital. The area of the city controlled by Jordan languished, however, since Jordan directed its resources to the growth of its capital, Amman. Jewish and Christian property in the Old City was heavily damaged by a combination of looting, neglect, and destruction.

    Early in the Six-Day War of 1967,
    Jordanian forces in Jerusalem began to bomb the Jewish side of the city. In the ensuing warfare, Israel gained control of all of Jerusalem and the adjacent West Bank territory. The boundaries of the city were redrawn to expand its size by more than 200 percent, and in 1980 the Knesset passed a law declaring reunited Jerusalem to be Israel's eternal capital. The new municipal boundary added a number of Palestinian villages and the Kalandia airport (also called Atarot). Palestinian residents of the city were offered Israeli citizenship, but the offer was largely declined. Since many Palestinians retained Jordanian citizenship, the city took on a new political reality, with Palestinians and Israelis voting in the same municipal elections, but in different national elections (Jordanian and Israeli, respectively). Functionally, the city operated as a unit, with shared infrastructure, services, and taxation. Nevertheless, deep social divisions remained.

    After the Six-Day War,
    the urban development of Jerusalem was designed to promote homogeneous ethnic neighborhoods, with buffers separating Arabs and Jews. The pattern grew more complicated as new neighborhoods for Israeli Jews were constructed in the area that prior to 1967 had been dominated by Arabs. By 1990, West Jerusalem was exclusively Jewish, and East Jerusalem had nearly equal populations of Arabs and Jews. The Old City continued to have a non-Israeli majority, but the Jewish Quarter was restored and repopulated, and it quickly became a focal point of tourist and cultural activity. Since the Israeli residential and business sectors outside the Old City have been the target of development support from the government, many new neighborhoods, modern structures, and services have been created.

    Urusalim (Jerusalem) is definitely the Capital of Israel!!!
     
  10. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    As soon as one claimant takes Jerusalem to the exclusion of every other they will hold Jerusalem.

    It is the way of the world.and there is no Tooth Fairy - alas.
     
  11. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    there are many Muslim sites in Jerusalem.

    they have a claim
     
  12. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Yes Muslims are entitled to manage their sites O N L Y!!!! But they have no right to declare that half of Jerusalem is their capital... Over my dead body!!!
     
  13. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Well-Known Member

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    One side has Merkava's, the other slings, I think we know who is right.
     
  14. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL....such silly nonsense.
     
  15. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Of course it is exactly as you declared nonsense to you and many others whiles Jews are dying from stab wounds.

    Here is what happened today.

    Two Dead, One Wounded After Palestinian Stabbing Attack in Jerusalem’s Old City
    ~by TheTower.org Staff | 12.23.15 10:25 am
    Two Israelis were killed and one more seriously wounded after a Palestinian stabbing attack at the Jaffa Gate outside the Old City of Jerusalem today.

    Ofer Ben Ari, a 46-year-old Jerusalemite with two daughters, was wounded by police gunfire in the process of subduing two Palestinian terrorists who had begun stabbing passersby. Shaare Zedek Medical Center announced his death moments before news broke that a second victim, 45-year-old Reuven Birmacher, also died of his injuries. Birmacher was a resident of Kiryat Ye’arim and a father of seven. A third victim is in serious condition.

    Palestinian media identified the attackers as Issa Asaf and Anan Abu Habseh, two 21-year-olds from the Qalandia refugee camp in the West Bank. The pair, who had previously been arrested for disturbing the peace, had reportedly left their cellphones and IDs at home before leaving for Jerusalem. They were shot and killed by policewomen after carrying out the attack.

    The Times of Israel reported more:

    Witnesses said one of the victims struggled with his stabber on the ground and was stabbed multiple times.

    “Two people were struggling and at first I thought it was a game,” Yael, an eyewitness, told Israel Radio. “I saw [the attacker] trying to stab [his victim] with all his might.

    “I saw the victim try to get away from him, but he couldn't,” she added.

    More than 20 Israelis have been killed in Palestinian stabbing attacks since the current wave of violence began in September. Jerusalem has been one of the focal points of the violence, with multiple attacks taking place inside or near the Old City.

    A recent public opinion poll revealed that two-thirds of Palestinians support knife attacks against Israelis, while 54% oppose a two-state solution. Various Israeli security experts and Palestinian activists have attributed the ongoing wave of terror to incitement from Palestinian leaders, including government officials.

    Last month, the United States House of Representatives unanimously passed a resolution condemning incitement by the Palestinian Authority. At the time, the measure’s co-sponsor Ted Deutch (D – Fla.) said, “It is well past time for President Abbas to stand up and condemn all acts of violence, rather than encouraging violence by glorifying terrorists and teaching children to view Israelis as animals.”

    Also...
    Israel Breaks Up Hamas Terror Cell, Uncovers Explosives Lab Near Jerusalem
    by TheTower.org Staff | 12.23.15 2:05 pm
    The Shin Bet, Israel’s internal security agency, announced that it broke up a large Hamas terror cell that operated an explosives laboratory and planned to carry out suicide bombings, The Times of Israel reported Wednesday.

    The majority of the cell’s members were students at Al-Quds University in Abu Dis, near Jerusalem, and two of them were Israeli citizens. Their makeshift laboratory, also in Abu Dis, contained stores of chemicals necessary for making explosives, including the kind most often used in suicide vests.

    According to the Shin Bet, the cell was controlled by Hamas operatives in the Gaza Strip. “This case reveals and highlights again the involvement of the military arm of Hamas from the Gaza Strip, which operates continuously with the intent of carrying out mass-casualty attacks within Israel and the West Bank,” the agency said.

    The leader of the cell was Ahmad Jamal Mousa Azzam, who was recruited by Hamas and trained by the Iran-backed terror organization to assemble explosive belts, vests, and devices.

    Azzam, a student at Al-Quds University, enlisted some of his peers to assist the operation. One, Jerusalem resident Hazem Ziad Amran Sandouqa, helped purchase chemicals to create the explosives and provided intelligence on possible targets. The other, Fahdi Daoud Muhammad Abu Qaian, a Bedouin from the Negev, confessed that he had agreed to carry out a suicide attack.
     
  16. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    which has nothing to do with the Muslim claim to Jerusalem
     
  17. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Yes it does... Probably from the confine of your flat in queens, everything seem hanky dory... here things are different.
     
  18. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Muslims have lived in Jerusalem for more than 1,000 years.

    the land is filled with their holy buildings and sites.

    they of course, have a legitimate claim.

    just as the Jews do
     
  19. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    BALONEY!!!!!!!!!
    The Muslims/Arabs have 21 countries CREATED this past century to call their own.
    The Jews have ONLY ONE substantiated by history and archaeology!!!
    Only a dishonest person would demand that Israel justify cutting part of its realm to accommodate yet another 'vociferous group of Arabs mostly terrorists' and render Israel defenseless... this is their aim and goal... It will never happen!

    The only solution is an exchange of population, identical to many cases in the world i.e. Greece and Turkey, Poland and many other countries. Think before answering.
     
  20. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    like I said, Arabs and Muslims have lived in Palestine for centuries.

    they have a right to be there.
     
  21. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! They Squatted!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  22. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    how do you define "squatting"?
     
  23. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Merriam Webster dictionary defines it very well...

    Simple Definition of squat
    Popularity: Bottom 40% of words
    : to bend your knees and lower your body so that you are close to your heels or sitting on your heels

    : to live in a building or on land without the owner's permission and without paying
     
  24. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the land was conquered by the Muslims.

    according to the customary rules of war before the signing of the 1907 Hague Regulations or 4th Geneva Conventions, all conquered land becomes the property of the conquerer, to do what they wish with it.



    just as Israelis justify Israel using Arab private land in Israel, for whatever purpose they like, as they won the land in a war.
     
  25. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Exactly we regained our land in a war called the 'Independence War 1948'
    Same thing happened in Spain [Andalous] That the Muslim Arabs conquered in 710 CE - 718 CE
    Muslims were expelled from Spain 1609 CE...

    They are still maintaining that Andalous is still Arab.
     

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