Should we ban the indoctrination and brainwashing of children by religions? Is it chi

Should we ban the indoctrination and brainwashing of children by religions? Is it child abuse?

Islam begins their indoctrination and brainwashing of their children by early memorizing of the Qur’an, even before their children know the meaning of what they are reading. Recently, in the U.K., some Muslim schools have been closed for preaching anti-Semitism.

Christianity also indoctrinates and brainwashes their children from a young age into their belief systems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7-I9Qp3d4Y&feature=player_embedded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBv8tv62yGM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTqesLu8fu8

I see all of this indoctrination and proselytizing to children as going against the free will choice of children, when they are older, to choose religion or not, as well as their choice of a religion for it’s moral and ethical views as compared to their indoctrinated and possibly brainwashed choice based on what the father and mother believe in.

Be they political or religious views, parents do have some right to try to have their children follow in their footsteps. I do wonder though if indoctrination and or brainwashing of our children should be allowed to the degree that we allow it.

This thread was born of my viewing the first link and listening to a woman complain about non-Muslims praying in a mosque. Perhaps a valid point since that action was not stated in the agenda. I admit to not knowing if she was Christian or not but her, --- oh my God, --- exclamation made me wonder what Christians thought of this issue of indoctrination and or brainwashing of children since they do it to their own.

Some apologists, like Christopher Hitchens, have termed such teachings as abuse of children.

Which religion, Islam or Christianity, is hurting their children the most?
And.
Should we ban the indoctrination and brainwashing of all children by religions?

Regards
DL

 

Religious ideas are no different from any other. Parents have been working hard to indoctrinate their values and beliefs since the written word was born, and undoubtedly before. And yet each generation sees a slow change in beliefs and values as either political, religious or philosophical systems have grown popular or dissipated in popularity. Considering that church attendance has been decreasing each generation since the 1960's and the percentage of those who stipulate to a belief in a religion has been going down, its a peculiar time to worry that this 'brainwashing' is especially effective. Adult children have been defying parental religious values or at least refining them to work with their choices and desires since that same written word has been born. That's why you have so little concern with interfaith marriage now . Heck if a protestant marries a Jew or a Catholic marries an atheist, it barely warrents a tsk tsk from family members.

In short, you can't define this thing you want to ban. I can't see how you pass a statute about this thing that meets constitutional muster, and no one is remotely interested as a political reality. Forget it.

 

While we still have jihadists being created in Islam and gay bashers and misogynous people in both Islam and Christianity, I will not forget it.

You forget how large both Islam and the Christian right wing are.

Regards
DL

 

No, but we should definitely ban children from being forced into cults.

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

 

We've had a radical wing of every broad ideological, political, or religious movement in history. This country does not run and hide under the blankets, because ideas lead to some extreme ideas. Make no mistake, when we decide that the founders got it all wrong. When we decide there are ideas too scary to allow to be disseminated from one generation to the next without government deciding how strenuously they should be permitted and advocated, we are hiding under the blankets. I am far less frightened by Muslims or Christians or homophobes or Misogynists teaching their kids what they believe, than I am of you trying to get government to stop them. That's not government's job. Its your job to sell your ideas so persuasively to those kids that their minds are changed. That's how this problem has been solved for centuries in this country.

 

Only if the state is going to raise all the children.... parents have a right to raise kids they are responsible for.

I'm really getting sick of all these "Should we ban _________" threads.

 

It sold be illigal and against human right. Indoctrination from early age strip the mind of logic and over ride it with faith. That is believing in something despite the absence of evidence. This goes against logic and in many cases it sniffs logic out.

 

. Plenty of universities seem to think they can teach logic to 19-30 year olds and you have no evidence that students who are beleivers, flunk those classes more than non-beleivers. but let's assume that in fact faith is corrosive to a capacity to think logically. Let's further assume that strips a mind of a capacity to learn to think to logically later on.

'Logic' is a value. How important that value is, to teach to children as opposed to other values like compassion, love, faith, trustworthiness, industriousness, the cleanliness etc, is not the states call, its the parents. they get to decide whether 'logic' is something they want to prioritize at home. Some good decent people think that logic and reason are oversold as values, they may think those 'values' just rob people of some joy that a more romantic and spiritual approach to life will offer. Those good decent people are entitled to teach that to their kids.

 

I think that Christianity and Islam are all cults regardless of which denomination one belongs to.

Regards
DL

 

Once indoctrinated or brainwashed, most kids are lost to critical thinking. That is why 70 odd % od Americans stupidly believe in hell.

Regards
DL

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Even to the point of abuse?

Or do you not see abuse in teaching children lies about the supernatural and eternal torture?

Regards
DL

 

+1

Martin Luther.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

Regards
DL

 

Please read the post just above on logic and reason and what Christians think of them.

Also.

http://imgur.com/IBroXK9


Have you looked at the abortion stats that these good and decent people are responsible for?

Regards
DL

 

Perhaps, but we are all indoctrinated in one ideology or another.

 

There, do you see a problem?

 

They may well be but they are not an extremist cult like capitalism. Capitalism is the most horrific and dangerous cult ever known. Fortunately this has given rise to a new religious vigour in opposition to this satanic practice

 

Parenting is indoctrination. It is fixed on how the parent feels their child should act and they use what has been lessons in their lives to teach their children.

What is the difference between teaching your kid your personal religion, or keeping a kid away from religion because you do not like it? Nothing, both are forms of indoctrination.

 

Not my problem if you have a poor conversion rate with religious people who believe in hell. Whenever someone is unsuccessful at changing someone's mind, they like to throw out words like 'brainwashed or 'indoctrinated.' I don't know how many people have told me I was 'brainwashed' by my parents and indoctrinated by a left-wing media. You need to learn better skills at dealing with this. Its not government's job to take this problem off your hands because you are failing. Do a better job of selling your ideas.

 

So let me get this right. You are advocating for more critical thinking and reason in the same thread that you want me to determine what 'Christians' think of reason and logic using exactly two quotes by two Christians written centuries apart? Isn't the sample size a little slim here? I know I am not that dumb, and I am pretty sure you aren't either.

I haven't got a clue where you are heading with your abortion comment, but I am pretty sure its not someplace where reason and logic are heading either.

 

All beliefs are not the same, beliefs centered on Faith are not based on any real evidence and are dangerous in that it leads to not thinking critically its always founded on claims and dubious evidence. A belief in a scientific theory is always subject to change and must survive testing and falsification. Political beliefs can also change one can critically decide which system you want to follow.

I personally think Faith should be treated as any other idea but that means challenging any faith claim asking why one follows it and what evidence is used and not consider its a matter of faith to hold weight in universities and in any case where one would end the argument with that claim.

 

Its not 'dangerous'. Its inconvenient for you if you want them to accept an atheist system. That's not the same thing. Newsflash. People change their religious beliefs all the time. Some of them even head away from faith based religious beliefs entirely and they have done so for centuries. Matter of fact that is how things are trending increasingly. So stop whining and learn how to talk to people about your ideas in such a way that you don't need to have government declare your opponents ideas persona non grata.

 

We are all conditioned beings. Man was once conditioned to believe logical scientific things, that are laughed at today. Science today is heavily conditioned to believe reality is reflected in truth, by philosophical materialism, which is an assumption. So we are conditioned upon an assumption. Hardly any different in principle than being conditioned to think in philosophical idealism. Both are logical.

So it comes down to preference. You think your preference should be conditioned into people, and not the other preference. Sorta like a child who throws a tantrum, because he wants what he wants, and not what the other person wants. And if it's not your preference, then you call it child abuse.

For me, I am against all conditioning, and think that in school we should be taught what conditioning is, and how to free ourselves from it. For the conditioned mind is an ignorant mind, closed, stupid. For then it is always limited by its programing, its conditioning. A robot in flesh and blood. And forever a slave to its conditioning. There is no freedom there, only slavery.

 

I agree.

The less we shackle the minds of our young, the more free thoughts will come from them and the more and faster progression is likely to come from mankind.

We likely slow our advancement by blocking free thought.

Just look at Islam and you have a near perfect example of a people stuck in ancient days.

Regards
DL

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Yes but let me add to the post just above and say that the least indoctrination we can do, the better off our children will be.

Regards
DL

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Yes. You put my name to your words.

I am surprised the mods do not chastise you for lying.

Quite ill mannered that.

Regards
DL

 

I would call it more of an ideology that has served us well so far.

What would you replace it with?

Regards
DL

 

They are both indoctrination. I agree. One is a lot better than the other.

[video=youtube;WvBxFXQy7-M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvBxFXQy7-M[/video]

Regards
DL

 

So now it is not the governments job to insure that kids do not learn lies and harmful theological concepts, like creationism.

I guess you did not like it when the lies of I. D. were banned from schools.

You show how little social conscience you have by not caring of the harm done to our young by belief in lies, like there is a hell.

Regards
DL