CPR and CCW

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Maccabee, Jan 23, 2016.

  1. Maccabee

    Maccabee Well-Known Member

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    Having a CCW is JUST like having CPR. Both are taking it upon yourself to intervene where normally its supposed to be the first responders job.
     
  2. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    Defending myself or my family is not "intervening". It is my right.

    Of course, Texas and most other states allow for you to defend anybody under attack. You could call that "intervening", but the victim and society will both benefit from your actions. The criminal gives up his rights by violating the rights of others.
     
  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Except one ends a life while the other might give someone a second chance


    WHAT?? You thought CPR was "save a life" guarantee?

    Sorry buddy

    Even more telling professional versus amateur

    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6008a1.htm

    So if you are not an EMS personnel the patient has approximately one in ten chance of survival whereas if there is a responder the success rate goes up

    Professionals are professionals for a reason. The outcomes are better

    All the rest is just dreaming of being a "hero"

    And before anyone starts I am NOT saying we should not learn CPR because even a 11% chance is better than no chance - but I am one who has seen the good and the bad from this - the success rates and the ones who spent the rest of their lives with brain damage so I KNOW this comes with a price

    Everything does
     
  4. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    And taking a thug rat off the board may also save a life. Go figure.
     
  5. OrlandoChuck

    OrlandoChuck Well-Known Member

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    Still in denial that guns save lives too? Many times without even pulling the triggers.
     
  6. Maccabee

    Maccabee Well-Known Member

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    So you're against CPR? I'm not saying that CPR replaces the professionals, just that its better than nothing.
     
  7. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Of course it is better than nothing - been teaching it all my life. Even Vinnie teaches CPR

    [video]https://youtu.be/ILxjxfB4zNk[/video]

    But comparing something that is designed to take a life with something designed to (maybe) save a life is somehow..........

    I would suggest too that the rates of CCW "saving" lives would be much much lower than bystander CPR
     
  8. Maccabee

    Maccabee Well-Known Member

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    At least 200000 times per year guns have been used in self defense. We are talking about defending and saving the lives of the innocent. Why CPR is ok but not CCW from the logic behind it?
     
  9. OrlandoChuck

    OrlandoChuck Well-Known Member

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    Stating that guns were designed to take lives is suggesting that they were intended to be used as offensive weapons. If you understood the history of firearms, you would know that they were designed to be defensive weapons. In other words, to save innocent lives, often without pulling the trigger. Just because they are misused doesn't mean they were initially designed for this misuse.
    As far as defensive uses, the CDC reports they are way more common than you believe, I've posted the report as a response to your post before. I've also provided a link to over 600 pages of successful self defense shootings that can be verified. But you know all this but still insist your belief is more valid than fact.
     
  10. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Except doing CPR won't put you in harms way; pulling your CCW can put you in possible harms way. :)
     
  11. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    If you are pulling a gun to defend yourself or someone else lives are already in harms way by definition...
     
  12. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed. Definitely can put you in harms way.
     
  13. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    The point is you already are in harms way....there are only two reasons to pull a gun, defend yourself from death or great bodily harm or to defend someone else from the same...
     
  14. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Can you elaborate more on this?
     
  15. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    See my edit...
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily - when examined a good proportion of so called CCW were actually offensive uses of firearms

    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/

    http://www.thetrace.org/2015/07/defensive-gun-use-armed-with-reason-hemenway/

    - - - Updated - - -

    However that is not the usual use for guns
     
  17. OrlandoChuck

    OrlandoChuck Well-Known Member

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    Let's use data instead of Harvard survey polls.

    FBI reports that CCWs are rarely used for offensive purposes statistically. This is easily tracked by CCW revocations.

    From the library of congress committee report:

    "There is also little evidence that law-abiding permit holders are a threat to public safety. The state of Florida, which has issued over 2 million concealed carry permits since it adopted a `right-to-carry' law in 1987, has revoked just 6,400 permits (just 0.3 percent of the total issued permits) and just 168 concealed carry permits were revoked due to the use of a firearm in a crime (just 0.008 percent)."



    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&r_n=hr277.112&dbname=cp112&&sel=TOC_10311
     
  18. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When the first responders are 20 minutes away, you are the first responder.
     
  19. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Orlando Chuck's post is consistent with the Stats on CCW in my state. The vast majority of those with CCW are responsible gun owners that have permits for defensive purposes.

    When I teach any level of gun self defense on of the things I continually reiterate is there are only two reasons to pull a gun, defend yourself from death or great bodily harm or to defend someone else from the same. Any moment you use a gun in an offensive manner is the moment you have crossed the line into potential criminality.

    Depending on the source, guns are successfully used in defense by civilians somewhere between 300k to 2.5m times a year, including stopping or preventing mass shootings. It is rare police respond to any unfolding crime in time to prevent injury or death; in most cases they arrive to clean up the mess and make an arrest after the fact. So, civilian's with guns are indeed in the role of first or self response.
     
  20. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmmmm - and what does one have to do to have licence revoked - I mean depends on how high the bar is as to how accurate this is

    - - - Updated - - -

    Again it depends on how high the bar is. What are the basis for revocation and how well it is monitored
     
  21. CRUE CAB

    CRUE CAB New Member

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    Negative. I don't have to do a damn thing for anyone.
    I carry for me and my families protection. Period.
     
  22. CRUE CAB

    CRUE CAB New Member

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    Do it wrong and harm someone, you can be sued.
    I would do CPR on my family or a very very close friend. Period.
     
  23. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Highly unlikely since the "Good Samaritan Act" protects you against liability as long as you acted in good faith. Furthermore, if you have a CPR card issued by a legitimate agency (Red Cross, American Heart Association, etc) they will likewise defend you on your training and skills.

    Imagine you drop over in public of a massive heart attack and everyone has the same thought as you do. You're a goner then.
     
  24. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    In my state, there are a number of reasons for revocation,

    Failure to notify police of being armed when approached, I.e., traffic or any other stop
    Being convicted of any felony or drug crime
    Being found armed on any property with signage of no guns allowed
    Being found armed in any place were being armed is specifically prohibited, government property, schools, etc.
    Being armed while consuming alcohol
    Any change in eligibility status, no longer resident, convicted of drug crime, judged mentally incompetent or alcohol dependent

    The law requires sheriffs, whose offices issue the licenses, to suspend the license of anyone arrested or charged with certain crimes, including any felony, drug offense or domestic-violence offense. A court-issued protection order against the license-holder also results in suspension.

    In many cases, police can issue a complaint on any of the above but being charged or convicted of any disqualifying crime is automatically checked against the CCW registry.
     
  25. OrlandoChuck

    OrlandoChuck Well-Known Member

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    Revocations and suspensions occur when people are charged with a crime, but only about 5 percent or less of these cases result in conviction and thus people are eligible for having their licenses reinstated.
     

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