Current welfare system ruining our economy

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by RadicalRevolutionary, Feb 18, 2016.

  1. RadicalRevolutionary

    RadicalRevolutionary New Member

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    Our welfare system is one of the biggest factors in our inability to solve such issues as our debt. the number one revenue for governments, obviously, is taxation. When you have large percentages of the population taking that revenue away through undeserved benefits for unemployment, you take a leg from under the already rickety table our economy rests on.

    The way to solve this issue is by inducing limits on said welfare systems. We have to start by removing most qualifications for child benefits. The fact that we pay unemployed women more money per child they have is one of the biggest scandals in our welfare system today. rather than attempting to be a real productive member of our society by contributing to it, we have single mothers trying to have more kids just to have an increase to their benefits, and the worst part is that a decent amount of that money given to them is not spent towards their kids at all. The way to put an end this is by removing child benefits after one child, because if you really are trying to change your life for you and your kid, you wouldn't have any more kids to ruin your goals; and for those who are welfare stealing scum, they won't be ale to live on their little scandal anymore.

    There are many other programs that need revamping, but Id rather not rant, so tell me what you think.
     
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  2. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    In conjunction with this, what would you propose for corporate welfare?
     
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  3. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    I'd probably not reduce child benefits but I might require unemployed women receiving child benefits to use some sort of birth control. My wife did when we'd had enough kids.
     
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  4. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    A better and faster way is to end all overseas tax shelters enjoyed by wealthy elites. This will bring in TRILLIONS in revenue and actually reduce taxation on everyone else.
     
  5. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    What percentage of our GDP goes to welfare ? Can we list out the programs that are we can all agree are welfare ? Then we can agree which ones to eliminate.
     
  6. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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  7. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    You spend in excess of $1+ TRILLION on Welfare Programs. 83 such Welfare Programs are listed below. These four programs --- Indian Human Services, Indian Housing Block Grants, Indian Education and Indian Health Service, may be under various treaties between the United States and the several Indian Tribal Nations (I don't know enough about them to make a judgment).

    That leaves the following 79 redundant overlapping programs, which cost more than $1.3 TRILLION annually:

    Healthcare:
    Family Planning
    Consolidated Health Centers
    Transitional Cash and Medical Services for Refugees
    State Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP)
    Voluntary Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit—Low-Income Subsidy
    Medicaid
    Ryan White HIV/AIDS Program
    Breast/Cervical Cancer Early Detection
    Maternal and Child Health Block Grant

    Income Redistribution Programs:
    Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) (cash aid)
    Supplemental Security Income
    Additional Child Tax Credit
    Earned Income Tax Credit (refundable component)

    "Nutrition" Programs:
    Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)
    School Breakfast Program (free/reduced price components)
    National School Lunch Program (free/reduced price components)
    Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC)
    Child and Adult Care Food Program (lower income components)
    Summer Food Service Program
    Commodity Supplemental
    Food Program Nutrition Assistance for Puerto Rico
    The Emergency Food Assistance Program (TEFAP)
    Nutrition Program for the Elderly

    "Education" Programs:
    Adult Basic Education Grants to States
    Federal Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grant
    Education for the Disadvantaged—Grants to Local Educational Agencies (Title I-A)
    Title I Migrant Education Program
    Higher Education—Institutional Aid and Developing Institutions
    Federal Work-Study
    Federal TRIO Programs
    Federal Pell Grants
    Education for Homeless Children and Youth
    21st Century Community Learning Centers
    Gaining Early Awareness and Readiness for Undergraduate Programs (GEAR-UP)
    Reading First and Early Reading First
    Rural Education Achievement Program
    Mathematics and Science Partnerships
    Child Care and Development Fund
    Head Start HHS
    Developmental Disabilities Support and Advocacy Grants
    Improving Teacher Quality State Grants
    Academic Competitiveness and Smart Grant Program

    "Housing" programs:
    Single-Family Rural Housing Loans
    Rural Rental Assistance Program
    Supportive Housing for the Elderly
    Supportive Housing for Persons with Disabilities
    Section 8 Project-Based Rental Assistance
    Community Development Block Grants
    Homeless Assistance Grants
    Home Investment Partnerships Program (HOME)
    Housing Opportunities for Persons with AIDS (HOPWA)
    Public Housing
    Section 8 Housing Choice Vouchers
    Neighborhood Stabilization Program-1
    Grants to States for Low-Income Housing in Lieu of Low-Income Housing Credit Allocations
    Tax Credit Assistance Program
    Emergency Food and Shelter Program

    Housing Related Programs:
    Water and Waste Disposal for Rural Communities
    Public Works and Economic Development
    Weatherization Assistance Program
    Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP)

    Social Welfare Programs:
    Older Americans Act Grants for Supportive Services and SeniorCenters
    Older Americans Act Family Caregiver Program
    Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) (social services)
    Child Support Enforcement
    Community Services Block Grant
    Foster Care
    Adoption Assistance
    Social Services Block Grant
    Chafee Foster Care Independence Program
    Legal Services Corporation
    Community Service Employment for Older Americans
    Social Services and Targeted Assistance for Refugees
    Foster Grandparents

    "Job Training" Programs:
    Job Corps
    Workforce Investment Act (WIA) Adult Activities
    Workforce Investment Act (WIA) Youth Activities
    Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) (employment and training)
    Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) (employment and training component)




    There you go. Have at it.
     
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  8. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

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    Redundant, overlapping programs is a government method of creating jobs. After all, politicians have to provide some rewards for those who help their campaigns and what is better than a government job with lucrative benefits?

    "A Republic, if you can keep it." - sadly, we didn't/couldn't.
     
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  9. LibChik

    LibChik Well-Known Member

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    Welfare is not the biggest risk to the debt...not even close.

    Its actually corporate deregulation and subsidies combined with the politicians refusing to take the punch of raising taxes which we should have done a long time ago to pay for the Iraq war.

    Instead we added the cost to the national debt knowing the GDP couldn't absorb it and have been borrowing to pay the interest on that crap ever since.

    Then because Obama had to get more loans to cover the economic disaster from the Bush administration and again, refused to raise taxes and couldn't get corporations to pay their fair share...the interest skyrocketed even more.

    The principle part of the debt was absolutely caused by republicon policies and Obama's inability to raise taxes to pay for it has simply resulting in compiling interest.

    I don't give a crap about welfare. I do care about tightening up regulation on corporations, ending all corporate subsidies and stopping unpaid military action though.
     
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  10. erayp

    erayp New Member

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    Why not both?
     
  11. Palmetto

    Palmetto New Member

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    How do you plan on doing that? Military invasions?
     
  12. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    And just about every cent of it is paid back in consumption by beneficiaries of safety net programs.


    By contrast those of you who applaud the military industrial complex cause the wastage of even more money every year and the profits are sent overseas into TAX FREE shelters.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Ask President Obama - he is the one who proposed ending it legally but your Republicans friends refused to help him do so.

    Thus, it is the right wingers who, again, are causing the problems we see in society. Yes, I know it is not fashionable and politically correct to say so but it is the TRUTH.
     
  13. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe but SSDI is the bigger problem.
     
  14. Palmetto

    Palmetto New Member

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    I'm not asking Obama; I'm asking you since you're the one here, in this forum, advocating for it. Now, if your plan really would bring in that much revenue and reduce overall taxation, then it is clearly worth considering. I'm just asking how it would be implemented--how you plan on "ending" foreign jurisdictions that have tax rates lower than ours. I'm not a Republican and Congress isn't my "friend". Tell me exactly what you want to do and we might end up agreeing if it's rational and feasible.

    This statement is entirely unsupported since you haven't yet given any details on how overseas "tax shelters" can be "ended". The US and Eritrea are the only countries in the world that tax the foreign income of their citizens while they are abroad (source), so that part is covered. US resident citizens earning income from foreign sources also have to pay US taxes, so that's covered too. If you're concerned about resident citizens earning foreign income and having it sent directly to a foreign account, and not reporting it on their taxes, don't fret, because that's already illegal.

    From the IRS website:

    Hiding Income Offshore
    Not reporting income from foreign sources may be a crime. The IRS and its international partners are pursuing those who hide income or assets offshore to evade taxes. Specially trained IRS examiners focus on aggressive international tax planning, including the abusive use of entities and structures established in foreign jurisdictions. The goal is to ensure U.S. citizens and residents are accurately reporting their income and paying the correct tax.

    Consequences for Evading Taxes on Foreign Source Income
    You will face serious consequences if the IRS finds you have unreported income or undisclosed foreign financial accounts. These consequences can include not only the additional taxes, but also substantial penalties, interest, fines and even imprisonment.

    Reporting Promoters of Off-Shore Tax Avoidance Schemes
    The IRS encourages you to report promoters of off-shore tax avoidance schemes. Whistleblowers who provide allegations of fraud to the IRS may be eligible for a reward by filing Form 211, Application for Award for Original Information, and following the procedures outlined in Notice 2008-4, Claims Submitted to the IRS Whistleblower Office under Section 7623.
     
  15. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    So critics want the significantly disabled, infirm, poor elderly, low income family children and veterans to be homeless and hungry with no health care OR make provisions for them so they have a basic level of support? It seems to me our nation can make some provisions like the help I get its more a matter of how disorganized the system is than the system.

    I can find lots of other places to cut like our bloated military budget before I'd cut social welfare programs.
     
  16. toddwv

    toddwv Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Has nothing to do with skyrocketing executive salaries, businesses that no longer pay their share, and the trillions in DEFICIT spending that we tossed towards Iraq and Afghanistan therefore creating interested reaching nearly 1/2 billion.
     
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  17. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    I worked for the IRS for many years and know that and FAR more since part of my time was in the tax shelter unit.

    All we need is the proper legislation to solve the Republican created problem.
     
  18. Palmetto

    Palmetto New Member

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    This doesn't answer any of my questions. I'm happy to hear that you worked for the IRS, as you of all people should be able to clearly explain what exactly that "proper legislation" would do. "Ending tax shelters" as a description isn't good enough--it's already illegal to have unreported income or accounts, and the IRS pursues people who use those accounts to evade taxes. I very well might agree with you, but I can't consider the potential merits of your/Obama's plan if you can't give me anything more than vague details. So please--tell me exactly how this legislation would work.
     
  19. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I continue to believe there is little to nothing we can do about welfare spending or any spending for that matter. Like it or not, the US has millions of Americans who need assistance and there are myriad reasons for this...this number will grow as the population increases. Whether people are in retirement, or unhealthy, or have physical/mental limitations, or lack education and skills and a job, fact is there are millions of them. I live in a county which is not poor, with a population slightly less than 500,000, but we have 80,000 citizens using free food pantries each month! I think if someone could add up the charitable giving across the USA to provide support to needy Americans the number would be astronomical...surely in the multiple billion$. 75 miles to my south in SF they have about 5000 homeless people on the streets. The government doesn't even come close to providing all that is needed for Americans so whatever levels of welfare can be quantified today you can probably multiply it by 2 or more for the real costs.

    So, if we can't reduce the cost of these programs, and we refuse to lower the cost of other government areas, and as more Americans refuse to pay taxes preferring that others pay their way, where does this leave us? I suspect the answer is complex and extremely wide in scope costing billion$/trillion$ and taking decades to effect positive change. If this is true, the next issue is Americans don't have the stomach to be proactive, to pay our way, to invest in the future...I would say this is self-serving and greedy but I'll also say there simply is not enough money laying around to do more. Sure, the so-called wealthy can pay more taxes but this is a political Bandaid solving nothing.

    For years now we have proven that we are not going to consume ourselves into economic prosperity. How can the USA greatly increase GDP, thereby increasing tax revenues, thereby creating millions more jobs...my answer is greatly increasing US exports. What, if anything, can we build in the US and sell into the global marketplace and derive perhaps $5 trillion more GDP? BTW; $5 trillion in GDP equals approximately 50 million US jobs!! Obviously we don't have 50 million Americans wanting to work so automation and robotics must play a huge role in our future.

    Or, more than likely, we continue down the same path, less people working, less people paying taxes, higher cost governments, more debt, exacerbating all the problems we have today...
     
  20. erayp

    erayp New Member

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    The main difference between Social Security Disability (SSD, or SSDI) and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is the fact that SSD is available to workers who have accumulated a sufficient number of work credits, while SSI disability benefits are available to low-income individuals who have either never worked.

    Yet "another" tax payer funded welfare program and people who work have to worry if SS is going to be there for them even though they contributed into it?

     
  21. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It won't be there for my generation in an appreciable form. They are already cashing out bonds and transferring money from SS to SSDI to keep it solvent while putting on more judges to accelerate the processing of appeals to get more people on the dole, which will accelerate the decline.
     
  22. erayp

    erayp New Member

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    And the people who paid their way in life and pay into SS for their future get screwed once again. Trump is right, politicians forget the middle class. Probably because they are too damn busy working to support everyone to have time to pay attention to what's going on and the politicians know it. hmm or could it be politicians know that the middle class believes in working to pay their way so it's harder to buy them.

     
  23. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unfortunately the people who work their adult lives and have health issues 5 years from retirement that keep them from being able to work have to stand in line behind drunks and drug addicts who have trashed their bodies staying messed up and people who are too sad to work. In reality the former aren't even really allowed in the line to begin with unless they have terminal cancer or something like that.
     
  24. erayp

    erayp New Member

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    Deckel, it get's worse. I know for a fact that Medicare won't take care of the middle class but Medicaid will take care of the poor but it's the poor who scream they want more. It's the middle class who is paying for it. In this country, it's better if you are poor or rich.



     
  25. erayp

    erayp New Member

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    The middle class is lead (by politicians) to believe that if they become old, ill and unable that the government will help them. It's a BIG LIE but people believe it and give their money away under the guise of "what about the poor", governments way of convincing the people to funnel other people's money to the government. To make it worse they are unable to and/or fail to save for their own future and they won't qualify for help.

    Gov base assistance on income (SS, pension) and assets and the income limits to qualify for help are very, very low. The income limits are so low that only the "cradle to grave poor" qualify. If you have an asset (house), you'll have to sign docs where it's basically a government loan due when you die while the poor don't have an asset (government paid rental assistance). Middle class make barely enough (struggle) but too much to get help. It's an income donut hole that a lot of middle class will fall into.

    The middle class is heading for a train wreck but still vote to give their money away. When they get old they're screwed while the poor will be taken care of.
     

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