So many lies and schemes to promoted the victim propaganda. Check out the link. HAPTER 5 Let Us Create A Maronite State in Lebanon The February 27, 1954 meeting among Ben Gurion, Sharett, Lavon and Dayan has already been mentioned in connection with Israel's invasion plans of Egypt and Syria. In that same meeting a concrete proposal was outlined to disrupt Israel's most peaceful neighbor at that time, Lebanon. In this case, Israel's hegemonic ambitions did not even pretend to wear the phony fig leaf of security or defense. Then he [Ben Gurion] passed on to another issue. This is the time, he said, to push Lebanon, that is, the Maronites in that country, to proclaim a Christian State. I said that this was nonsense. The Maronites are divided. The partisans of Christian separatism are weak and will dare do nothing. A Christian Lebanon would mean their giving up Tyre, Tripoli, the Beka'a. There is no force that could bring Lebanon back to its pre-World War I dimensions, and all the more so because in that case it would lose its economic raison-d'etre. Ben Gurion reacted furiously. He began to enumerate the historical justification for a restricted Christian Lebanon. If such a development were to take place, the Christian Powers would not dare oppose it. I claimed that there was no factor ready to create such a situation, and that if we were to push and encourage it on our own we would get ourselves into an adventure that will place shame on us. Here came a wave of insults regarding my lack of daring and my narrow-mindedness. We ought to send envoys and spend money. I said there was no money. The answer was that there is no such thing. The money must be found, if not in the Treasury then at the Jewish Agency! For such a project it is worthwhile throwing away one hundred thousand, half a million, a million dollars. When this happens a decisive change will take place in the Middle East, a new era will start. I got tired of struggling against a whirlwind. (27 February 1954, 377) The next day Ben Gurion sent Sharett the following letter: To Moshe Sharett The Prime Minister Sdeh Boker February 27, 1954 Upon my withdrawal from the government I decided in my heart to desist from intervening and expressing my opinion on current political affairs so as not to make things difficult for the government in any way. And if you hadn't called on me, the three of you, yourself, Lavon and Dayan, I would not have, of my own accord, expressed an opinion on what is being done or what ought to be done. But as you called me, I deem it my duty to comply with your wishes, and especially with your own wish as Prime Minister. Therefore, I permit myself to go back to one issue which you did not approve of and discuss it again, and this is the issue of Lebanon. .........It is clear that Lebanon is the weakest link in the Arab League. The other minorities in the Arab States are all Muslim, except for the Copts. But Egypt is the most compact and solid of the Arab States and the majority there consists of one solid block, of one race, religion and language, and the Christian minority does not seriously affect their political and national unity. Not so the Christians in Lebanon. They are a majority in the historical Lebanon and this majority has a tradition and a culture different from those of the other components of the League. Also within the wider borders (this was the worst mistake made by France when it extended the borders of Lebanon), the Muslims are not free to do as they wish, even if they are a majority there (and I don't know if they are, indeed, a majority) for fear of the Christians, The creation of a Christian State is therefore a natural act; it has historical roots and it will find support in wide circles in the Christian world, both Catholic and Protestant. In normal times this would be almost impossible. First and foremost because of the lack of initiative and courage of the Christians. But at times of confusion, or revolution or civil war, things take on another aspect, and even the weak declares himself to be a hero. Perhaps (there is never any certainty in politics) now is the time to bring about the creation of a Christian State in our neighborhood. Without our initiative and our vigorous aid this will not be done. It seems to me that this is the central duty - for at least one of the central duties, of our foreign policy. This means that time, energy and means ought to be invested in it and that we must act in all possible ways to bring about a radical change in Lebanon. Sasson ... and our other Arabists must be mobilized. If money is necessary, no amount of dollars should be spared, although the money may be spent in vain. We must concentrate all our efforts on this issue ........ This is a historical opportunity. Missing it will be unpardonable. There is no challenge against the World Powers in this ........Everything should be done, in my opinion, rapidly and at full steam. continued https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/essays/rokach.html#CHAPTER 1: Moshe Sharett and His Personal Diary
1.Moshe Sharett and His Personal Diary 2.Ben Gurion Goes to Sdeh Boker: Spiritual Retreat as a Tactic 3.Retaliation for War 4."A Historical Opportunity" to Occupy Southern Syria 5.Let Us Create a Maronite State in Lebanon 6.Sacred Terrorism 7.The Lavon Affair: Terrorism to Coerce the West 8.Nasser: Coexistence with Israel is Possible. Ben Gurion's Reply: Operation Gaza 9.Disperse the Palestinian Refugees 1.... and Topple Nasser's Regime Appendices 1.Operation Kibya 2.And Then There was Kafr Qasim 3."Soon the Singing Will Turn Into a Death Moan" 4.The Lavon Affair 5.Israeli Newspaper Reveals Government's Attempt to Stop Publication of Israel's Sacred Terrorism 1.Notes https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/essays/rokach.html#CHAPTER 1: Moshe Sharett and His Personal Diary
OMG! The entire Arab League was out to demolish Israel and this is all you got? Return to IHR for some more idiocy.
The Israelis wanted a chunk of Lebanon.. Up until they invaded Lebanon was prosperous, peaceful and the Paris of the Med.
They could have taken it and turned Syria into a parking lot but they didn't. Why, it's obvious, same reason they didn't take the rest of the Levant and nuked anybody that looked at them wrong, - they want peace but not if they're going to be the eternal victim.
Lebanon had a Christian majority until they were flooded with refugees from Palestine in 1948 and 1967.
Margot2, et al, Yes, I've heard this before; but I'm not sure that it is totally a consequence Arab-Palestinian Refugee migration. "When the Agency (UNRWA) began operations in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees." (Source: UNRWA-Palestine Refugees) The number of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon registered with the UNRWA in June 2006 was 406,342 (about 10% of the population of Lebanon). They are Palestinians who had fled Palestine in 1948 (UNRWA). ∆ It is estimated that there may be around 100,000 Palestinian refugees from Lebanon who, since the 1980s, have emigrated to Arab Gulf countries and northern Europe, mainly to Germany, Denmark and Sweden (Dorai, Palestinian Emigration from Lebanon to Northern Europe: Refugees, Networks and Transnational Practices). About 15,000 Palestinian refugees from Lebanon live in Sweden and 2,000 in Denmark. ∆ About 47% of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon live outside the camps and thus were in the same situation as the Lebanese people. Some Palestinian refugees fled to Syria. UNRWA estimates that 16,000 Palestinian refugees were displaced as a result of the hostilities between Hezbollah and Israel (UNWRWA Report, August 2006). Muslim 54% (27% Sunni, 27% Shia), Christian 40.5% (includes 21% Maronite Catholic, 8% Greek Orthodox, 5% Greek Catholic, 6.5% other Christian), Druze 5.6%, very small numbers of Jews, Baha'is, Buddhists, Hindus, and Mormons (SOURCE: CIA FactBook) The Palestinians, after half Century (+) of what they perceive as dispossession, base their identity on a continued relationship to a place, Palestine (As in the HAMAS Policy), and it was in the environment of the UNRWA Refugee Camps that the resistance organizations emerged. (COMMENT) I would like to get your thoughts on a couple points. Within Lebanon, on the average those that are 65 years and over --- constitute ≈ 6.58% (male 179,983/female 226,995) (2015 est.). It has been 68 years since Lebanon invaded Israel in the 1948 War of Independence. ∆ Of the over 400K Arab-Palestinian Refugees, how many do you actually believe ever lived in Israel, or were truly displaced? ∆ And of the remainder, how many of the UNRWA Registered Arab Palestinian were actually displaced by the 1967 War rather than the 1970 Conflict in Jordan? Most Respectfully, R
In May of 1948 the ongoing civil conflict transformed into an inter-state conflict between Israel and the Arab states, following the Israeli Declaration of Independence. A combined invasion by Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq, entered Palestine. The 10 months of fighting, interrupted by several truce periods, took place mostly on the former territory of the British Mandate and for a short time also in the Sinai Peninsula and southern Lebanon. At the Jericho Conference on 1 December 1948, 2,000 Palestinian delegates called for unification of Palestine & Transjordan as a step toward full Arab unity." No state was created for the Palestinian Arabs. Israel kept the area allotted to it by Partition Plan and captured 50% of area allotted to Arab state. Jordanian occupied the West Bank, Egypt occupied of the Gaza Strip . The conflict triggered significant demographic change throughout the Middle East. Around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from the area that became Israel and they became Palestinian refugees. In the three years following the war, about 700,000 Jews immigrated to Israel with many of them having been expelled from their previous countries of residence in the Middle East. Jews were still leaving the Arab world in 1956, 1967 and 1973. Israel looted and leveled some 300 Arab villages between 1947 and 1949.. and yes families fled the conflict.. When they tried to return to their homes and farms, they were shot. Benny Morris had access to the Israeli archives by the mid 1980s (I think) and whether you agree with his conclusions or not, his research is strong and he's honest. You might want to read his books. Are you thinking that all those refugees weren't really Palestinians?
Margot2, et al, First, let me say that there is very little in your posting I disagreed with at all. We don't differ much on the facts; except for our emphasis. I would ask, one question and make one comment. I will apologize in advance for the RANT. But I can't stand it when these anti-establishment academics, go through the archives and dredge up skeletons from the closet. (COMMENT) Benny Morris is one of those people that wants to make a splash, but doesn't want to get wet. He one of those people that enjoys sitting on the veranda of his home with a cool drink in his hand, afforded to him by a nation that he revels in trying to embarrass and ridicule --- and passes it off as the truth. As if the Arab League forces did not commit one single error in the war, and that the opinions that he promoted in his books of the many interpretations viewpoints available, were the only possible interpretation. I think I have a half-dozen or so of the 10 or 12 books he has written. For him, what sells his next book deal is how many terrible revelations can he make against Israel. I don't question many (if any) of his facts, but I find it rather odd that each book paints the Israelis blacker than the one before, yet the Arab Palestinians (as they usually portray themselves) as fair clean (with just a few flaws) as the driven snow. Remember, that NONE of the adjacent Arab countries (parties to the 1948, 1967, 1973 conflicts) around Israel is ranked higher on the UN Human Development Index (HDI). Of the 188 entities that were evaluated and ranked, Israel rated 18th (well inside the top 25 nations of the world); while Qatar (Ranked 32), Saudi Arabia (Ranked 39), The UAE (Ranked 41), and Kuwait (4, did make it into the top 50. Of the Immediately adjacent nations to Israel, --- Lebanon Ranked 67, Jordan ranked 80th, Egypt Ranked 108th, the 1988 State of Palestine Ranked 113th, and Syria Ranked 134th. It is probably a safe bet that Benny Morris would not be lounging on the veranda, overlooking rolling hills of cypresses and pine trees had the Arab League succeeded in overrunning the newly declared Israel in 1948. It probably would not be much different in the freedoms of the other Arab League states and might even be suffering the after effects of the Arab Spring (like two of its adjacent neighbors) with DAESH breathing down its neck. With the exception of Egypt - with several Nobel laureates, and Yassar Arafat (who was born in Egypt) with the Nobel Peace Prize for the Oslo Accords, the immediately adjacent parties to the conflict contributed little to Humanity; except for Elias James Corey (born in United States, Chemistry, 1990) jihadist, terrorists, insurgents, and other asymmetric forces. Whereas Israel in the science category alone, produced more Nobel recognized scholars all the Arab League parties to the conflict - combined. Yes, Israel, like damn near all the major powers of the world, has made its fair share of mistakes. But as far as a nation with a developed culture, Benny Morris (as truthful as he is) can safely cherry pick the facts and present Israel in the most favorable light as possible. But there is no country in the Region that has been as productive in moving towards democracy, creating a favorable economic and commercial atmosphere for its people, been more successful in establishing a peaceful and prosperous nation in the Middle East Region. (QUESTION) Are you thinking that all those refugees weren't really Palestinians? I'm saying that of all the refugees --- only a small percentage have actually experienced displacement. I'm saying that the UNRWA definition of "eligible for services" see CERI, is much different from the UN definition of a "refugee" used all around the world for all other refugees. Are you saying the the millions of refugee the UNRWA created actually came from territory now called Israel? Most Respectfully, R
Margot2, et al, Yes, I did understand. (COMMENT) The UNRWA definition of "persons eligible for registration and/or UNRWA services" under the UNRWA Consolidated Eligibility Registration Instructions (CERI) started out with about 750,000 persons in 1950; and now count some 5 million Palestine refugees today on the rolls. The growth of Palestinian Refugees is largely because the UNRWA definition is so radically different that used by the UNHCR Refugee Agency (the 1950 Convention and Protocol related to the Status of Refugees) that defines all the other refugees in the world. That is because the UNRWA is one of the biggest scams in the world for one of the biggest parasites in the world; the Palestinians. It grows the refugee population. Remember, the last person to have been considered displaced in the 1948-49 War of Independence, if born on the day of the Armistice, would be 67 years old. Life expectancy at birth (CIA Factbook West Bank): • total population: 75.91 years • male: 73.79 years • female: 78.17 years (2015 est.) Age structure: • 65 years and over: 3.85% (male 45,303/female 62,007) (2015 est.) There should only be ≈ 30,000 to 50,000 Arab Palestinians (NOT the 5 Million Reported) that actually lived in the land now sovereign Israel. How can this be? Because the UNRWA count descendants; which is not done for any other refugee population in the world. Most Respectfully, R
That was pathetic. Go on Margot explain how these assassinations were caused by Israel, please, lol: Kamal Jumblatt Assassination- March 16, 1977 -- Jumblatt was the leader of Lebanon's Druze minority. His murder is one of the sparks that set off the long Lebanese Civil War. Tony Frangieh Assassination -June 13, 1978-- A leader of the Christian Maronite faction, Tony Frangieh was the son of former Lebanese President Suleiman Frangieh. This assassination was part of the ongoing battle between the Marada Brigade of the Frangieh clan, and the Phalangist militia of the Gemayal family. Bashir Gemayal Assassination-Sept. 14, 1982--Gemayal, the President-elect of Lebanon, was killed by a bomb that destroyed the headquarters of his Phalangist Party. Gemayal was the leader of the pro-Israel and pro-Western Phalangist Party and a foe of Syria and the Palestinians. Prime Minister Rashid Karami Assassination-June 1, 1987--Karami was a Sunni Muslim and a veteran political leader. He was killed in a bombing that destroyed the helicopter he was flying in as he was returning to Beirut. Karami was an ally and supporter of Syria. Grand Mufti Hasan Khaled Assassination -May 16, 1989--Khaled was the chief legal cleric of Lebanon's Sunni Muslims. His death by car bomb is attributed to his moderate politics. Nazem el Qadri Assassination-September 22, 1989--El Qadri, a Sunni Muslim parliamentarian, was an opponent of Syria's occupation of Lebanon. His shooting death was seen as a not-too-subtle Syrian warning to other Lebanese politicians not to oppose Syria. Peace negotiations were underway in Taif, Saudi Arabia, and one of the items on the table was a deadline for a Syrian military withdrawal. Lebanese President René Moawad Assassination -November 22, 1989--Moawad, a Maronite Christian who had been President for only 17 days, died as his car was destroyed by a bomb in Beirut. Moawad had been attempting to form a unity government in order to end the civil war. Dany Chamoun Assassination -October 21, 1990-Chamoun was a Maronite Christian leader and the son of former Lebanese President Camille Chamoun. The younger Chamoun was an ally of General Michel Aoun, who opposed the pro-Syrian Government of President Elias Hrawi. Another Chamoun rival was Samir Geagea. When your done that do tell how the following were caused by Israel: Palestinian-Lebanese Hostility 1969 Christian-Shia Violence: Beirut 1969-70 Lebanese-Palestinian Clashes 1970 Lebanese-Palestinian Violence 1971 Lebanese Civil War 1958 Arab-Israeli War 1948-1949 the 1925-27 rebellion by the Druze minority against French rule. Here, you really need to get out: http://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/publications/lebanon-the-persistence-of-sectarian-conflict Margot you are well aware there was no peace and prosperity in Lebanon before you magically blame it on Israel. Beirut yes was a beautiful city but to pretend it was harmonious until Zionists made it conflicted is a crock. As I stated Lebanon is still in a declared state of war against Israel. It has have never signed a peace accord with Israel. The two countries were bound by a defacto armistice signed in 1949, which regulated the presence of military forces in southern Lebanon. Lebanon has always been unstable because of the split in 3 between Sunnis, Christians and Shiites who live in 3 segregated divisions. That has nothing to do with Israel. The fact that Lebanon up until the 1967 war did not attack Israel and there were very few border incidents did not mean Lebanon was utopia. It had a civil war in 1958 and since that war and prior to it the three communities, Sunni, Shiite and Christian did not get along and to pretend they lived in harmony as Margo suggests is a crock. Here is the other version of Lebanese history Margo ignores: 1-Palestinian guerrillas became active using Lebanon to attack Israel. So in1968, Israeli commandos landed at Beirut airport and blew up 13 Lebanese airliners in retaliation for Arab militants firing on an Israeli airliner in Athens, Greece; 2-in 1969, Lebanon chose to sign an agreement that gave Palestinian guerrillas the South of Lebanon to attack Israel; 3-attacks went on for years before and after 1968 from Lebanon's south into Israel proper; 4- in April 1974 Palestinian terrorists attacked the Israeli town of Kiryat Shmona, Israeland in this incident Palestinian terrorists from Lebanon killed 16 civilians, mostly women and children; 5-then less than a month after 4, Palestinian terrorists from Lebanon attacked a school in Maalot, Israel, killing 20 teenager; 6-Palestinian terrorists since the inception of Israel use Lebanon as a base to attack Israel and the firing on Israelis in northern Israel, forced Israel to invade southern Lebanon in 1978; 7- a U.N. peacekeeping force was deployed in South Lebanon and the Israelis pulled out after installing a local Lebanese militia in a border buffer zone, but the attacks still continued; 8-because the attacks kept coming, Israel invaded Lebanon again in 1982 to defend against attacks from Yasser Arafat's terrorists, who moved in as a force during the country's civil war that began in 1975, a civil war that was not created by Israel; 9- Iran then funded and created Hezbollah, the Shiite terrorist group that now operates in its enclaves in Lebanon including all of its South, as an autonomous Republic and is in a declared state of war with Israel; 10-Hezbollah lied to the UN, the Lebanese government and Israel and said it would disarm the moment Israel left southern Lebanon-Israel did withdraw and on the very day the final withdrawal was made by Israel, Hezbollah attacked into Israel proper and showed to the Lebanese government, the UN and Israel it had lied. Hey now imagine that. Shiite Muslim terrorists lying. I mean gosh. Right let's hear how Hezbollah or before them Arafat's terrorists are not the reason Israel has had battles in Lebanon. The Zionists just attacked for no reason. The 3 civil wars in Lebanon, oh hell blame Israel for them. In Margot's world we revise, we sanitize, we omit anything that would suggest Israel has had to defend itself from terrorists in Lebanon and suggest the conflicts between Sunni, Shiite and Christian and the attacks on Israel by Hezbollah, are Israel's fault. In Margot's world the 17-day "Grapes of Wrath" military campaign in 1996 that left about 150 Lebanese civilians dead happened simply because Israel is evil. It couldn't possibly have been defending against attacks by Hezbollah against Israeli soldiers inside the occupied zone and against Katyusha rockets being fired by Hezbollah into Israel proper. Bottom line and Margot just needs to make it clear, if Jews weren't Israelis and did not insist on a state, hey now she'd be happy. If Lebanon has been used to attack Israel for years, well hell we just skip over that part right Margot?
I was in Lebanon a dozen times from 1950 to 1972.. I saw the refugee camps outside Beirut in the early 1950s several times.. Israel is all to willing to create a failed state on their borders.. Dumbest strategy I've ever heard, but they are still at it.. They want their neighbors broken and impoverished.
You forgot a few civil wars in 1958, 1975, 1982....., Lebanon destroyed Lebanon, luckly the world records these events, but as always there is some mysterious stranger that's behind you killing your own isnt there......, no matter how many times Arabs did it there is always someone to blame , lol, Jews waited 2000 years just so they can come and kill Arabs right Margot ? that's our goal in life
Can we go anywhere in the planet and do that ? find natives willing to kill their own that is ? no ofc not, you lie when you drop facts, the Christians were our allies because of Muslim violence, now go ahaed and tell how peacful and tolerant Muslims are and its just some western white guy probebly Jewish that makes Muslims so angery they just have to go on killing.
