Palestinians are not (mainly) indigenous to Palestine - Really?

[This thread has been created to avoid the hi-jacking of a pre-existing thread from which the initial quote is copied:.

Both the Palestinians and the Jews have a long history of hybridisation of the ancestral bloodline of the Holy Land. But they both dominantly originated from the same local Palestinian stock during the late Iron age. HBendor recently again disputed this. He claims that Palestinians are Arabs who mainly originated beyond the borders of Eretz Yisrael (the Holy Land), as follows:

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To repeat what I posted, I would welcome showing you just how much verifiable historical documentation I have read, in full contrast to your claim that I "come up with nonsense".

As a result ....

.... I expect you to prove your "rubber band" accusation and provide proof of your claim that the Palestinians are not indigenous to Palestine, just as the Jews are (mainly).

 

Allow me to kick off:

In the late 19th C Palestine consisted of some 450 000 Muslim Palestinians, who had absorbed the Arab language and faith over past centuries. It only contained about 25 000 Jews in the 1880's.

In contrast, the book "From Time Immemorial: The Origins of the Arab-Jewish Conflict over Palestine" (1984) by Joan Peters, claims that at the time Palestine was practically unpopulated, so that subsequent Jewish immigrants simply filled a void.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Time_Immemorial

As we can see from the above-quoted verifiable data for the 19th C, Ms Peters' claims are pure nonsense --- in fact they are an oft-repeated Zionist Myth as we shall see from future analysis of HBendor's claim above.

 

Hebrew was pretty much a dead language after the Babylonian exile.. Everyone spoke Aramaic and Greek.

The Palestinians are descended from Jews, gentiles, Greeks, Romans, Syrians. crusaders, Turks and everybody else who ruled Palestine.

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Joan Peters is a joke.. She should go back to writing cook books.

 

Bendor is an right wing ultra zionist.

The Israeli national narrative no longer includes such idiotic "misinterpretations" and bumperstickers. Census figures et.al. are pretty definitive evidence that such claims are nonsense.

I categorize Ms Peters in the same looney bin as that birther whacko Orly Taitz.

OTOH, there has for all intents and purposes always been a jewish tribe living in Palestine. Just like there has always been a bunch of arab tribes living there.

Each sides lament of "ma claims bigger'n yur'un" is like arguing about whether certs is a breath mint or a candy.
Doesn't make a damn bit of difference when the actual "facts on the ground" are considered.

 

Jewish history is very special.. Look at the old testament..

 

I am happy to oblige... clean your glasses and watch my retort in a Video where people of importance stated it the way it should be understood.

Voila...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbf2LjF8OPw

 

Joan Peters is a liar.

Palestine in 1920

But the Syrian province of Palestine, about one hundred and fifty miles long and fifty miles broad, largely mountainous and sterile, contains at present a population of more than 650,000, divided as follows: Mohammedan Arabs, 515,000; Jews, 63,000; Christian Arabs, 62,000; nomadic Bedouins, 50,000; unclassified, 5000.

Of these the Mohammedans and Christians are to a man bitterly opposed to any Zionist claims, whether made by would-be rulers or by settlers. It may not be generally known, but a goodly number of the Jewish dwellers in the land are not anxious to see a large immigration into the country.

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/bookauth/zionism/mackay.htm

 

You have had the facts given many times, you do not refute them you simply ignore them and then reappear again with the same falsehood.

Moslems................. Jews...................... Christians............ Others................ Total ............. Year
486,177 ................ 83,790 .......................71,464 ............ 7,617 ..............649,048 ............ 1922
493,147................ 174,606..................... .88,907 .............10,101 ............966,761 ..............1931
906,551 ................ 474,102................... 125,413 .............. 12,881 ............1,518,947 ...........1941
1,076,783.............. 608,225................... 145,063 .............. 15,488 ............1,845,559 ...........1946

These are the UN figures, whether you want to call the majority of people in the mandate Palestinians is irrelevant, they existed, they lived there and their rights were trampled on.

And before you claim that they were there to build railways or other rubbish, here yet again is how the UN confirms who were born there, and who were immigrants.

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths. Indeed, the natural rate of increase of Moslem Arabs in Palestine is the highest in recorded statistics,1 a phenomenon explained by very high fertility rates coupled with a marked decline in death rates as a result of improved conditions of life and public health, The natural rate of increase of Jews is also relatively high, but is conditioned by a favorable age distribution of the population due to the high rate of immigration.

https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/07175DE9FA2DE563852568D3006E10F3

The Jews had no reason to claim Palestine for themselves.

 

There was no UN until October 1945......

Muslims have been the majority in Palestine for 1300 years.

 

The Jewish people have claimed what was their <ancestral home>.... the Arabs were given self determination on land that was NEVER theirs.

 

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However these were the figures used by the UN in 1947 to show the population in Palestine.

And yes they clearly show a Muslim majority as it had been for 1300 years.

 

Yes for some reason you think what belonged to you 2000 years ago was relevant to last century and this, a strange belief!

The people who lived there for 1300 years and remained there had a right to self determination, only Zionists think that somehow what happened 2000 years ago is more relevant.

 

You cannot live in someone's home and claim ownership!
As long as a people is alive and as long as their language, literature. archaeology and history is alive you cannot like the Egyptians claim the pharaohs as your ancestors...

 

That is exactly what the majority of Jews in Israel do, live in someone else's home but claim ownership!

 

The European Jews were not native to Palestine.. They didn't stick around and tend all those ancient olive trees in Palestine..

In 1920 the population of Palestine was more than 650,000, divided as follows: Mohammedan Arabs, 515,000; Jews, 63,000; Christian Arabs, 62,000; nomadic Bedouins, 50,000; unclassified, 5000.

 

Oh, YOU made this video, or at least features in it. In that case I will watch it. Otherwise the lame posting of videos without significant commentary is against explicit forum guidelines.
I will report back on your production and your videoed retort..

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Jonsa, I have always had, and continue to have, the utmost respect for you as a person, and as a very worthy adversary from whom I have learned much.

 

Yes, she was not one to let the truth get in the way of her Zionist zeal. But, since you know full well, according to the official Israeli statistician, R. Bacchi, that in 1882 there were 450 000 Palestinian Arabs and only 25000 Jews in all of Palestine, she was lying. So why do you refer me to her as what “people of importance stated it the way it should be understood”. Don’t tell me this is yet another of those videos made by a fraud.

What a silly man. Almost as silly as Golda, because she was referring to the people, while he only referred to the label given to that land. As you so kindly pointed out to me, already in the very early 1900s Jews acknowledged the existence of Palestine.

In fact, as you also pointed out, the Greeks already knew of Palestine in the Hellenic times.

I hope this improves HB, and that it is not just another one of the many trashy “no-comment” videos to waste my time.
So far the score is Known Myths - 2 : CBS Video - 0

 

EXACTLY!! And they also own the garage, the barn, and the store rooms, but pretend that they don't.
Excellent analogy by HBendor.

 

Israel is a modern state well built with futuristic aims at keeping the land producing.
We have finished with the mud houses, shacks and bidonville the Arab squatters have erected! One day in the near future the whole place will be swept clean of these savages... and all of us will have more respect for the last of the Mohicans...

 

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Arabs have been in Palestine since Abraham..... since before Islam. The Zionists screwed up when they returned to Palestine and mistreated them.... They were socialist ghetto trash in Europe and that's how they behaved when they got to Palestine. .... and no amount of historical rewrite can fix that. You did what you did.. The abused became the abusers.. Own it.. fix it or continue your slow theft and genocide while in the pockets of American taxpayers.

 

Agreed, so have Jews.

You of course mean those of the ethnoreligous group known as Jews who believed they used to own a good portion of the Levant and believed in the right of return to a land without a nation. How on earth can one screw up going back to where their true roots are I wonder.

I don't recall Jews going into German neighborhoods and setting off suicide bombs to kill as many women and children as possible so maybe for pure entertainment you can call Palestinian terrorists who do this or those who have,m as their official policy to destroy a globally recognized nation such as Israel ".

Population of Palestine increases faster than pretty much every western nation on earth so this is quite the canard. Heck, as long as you are spewing out lies may as well say they have been obliterated to the last woman and child or that the Holocaust of billions and trillions of Palestinians has been achieved by the dirty Jews from Europe. After that you can blame them for defending themselves like they live in a world where nobody has ever declared war on them even though pretty much all; of them were born there.

 

I watched the rest of the video. In its entirety it consists of three parts.

1) The Right of Ancestry
2) The Right of Religion
3) The Right of Return

In terms of "proving" the central thesis of the video, that the Palestinian people were not the descendants of the Canaanites, 2) and 3) are Strawman irrelevancies which have nothing to do with ancestry. Rejected.
The video's claim that this Canaanite link cannot exist because there never was a country or a people called Palestine, is a favourite mantra of the ultra-Zionist (thanks Gilos) apologists. It is pathetic. Why? For various reasons:

1) Land surface labels and DNA have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. This on its own refutes the main "proof" provided in the video for the non-existence of a genetic link between the Canaanites and the Palestinian people. Pathetic, from the start. Such a schoolboy howler.

2) A people can exist without them having had a previous kingdom/state/country. Botswana is a perfect example. Should it be erased? The Maronites held onto their religion in the face of multiple Muslim invasions. But there never was a country/kingdom called Lebanon. Are the Lebanese therefore not linked to their land? Should Lebanon be denied? Should we likewise erase Italy. Or Germany? Or Namibia? Or Northern Ireland? Zionist apologists unveil this empty reasoning time and again, offered as some kind of gilded turd. It is one of their great MYTHS. And it is utterly groundless. It is in fact perfectly illustrative of just how hollow the Zionist denial of the right to the existence of Palestine is.

3) But there WAS a Palestine. The Romans knew it. The Jews even named a commercial Bank after it in 1902.

4) The People - the DNA: The British found the people who occupied Palestine to be so different from the Hashemite Arab nomads of the deserts in the south, south-east and east, and so different from the Christians in the north, that they decided to make it into a separate Middle East mandate territory. And all of the members of the League of Nations agreed and approved this Palestinian uniqueness. But the Zionist apologists cherry-pick this legal acknowledgement of the uniqueness of the Palestinian people out of all of their discourses. I am here to counter that racism of the biased Zionist element.

In conclusion, of the entire video, there remains only one core thesis that is at all relevant:

And that incorrect conclusion will be addressed in my next post.

---- to be Continued ---

 

Well we can send horses to water but, we cannot force them to drink!!!

 

OK, so obviously no ammunition left.
And you have not taken any credible step to proving that the bulk of the Palestinian bloodline originates outside Palestine. Zero. Nada.
You just "Say so".
Sorry ... utterly underwhelming.