So why single out Israel?

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by Sab, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    The anti Israelis single out Israel amongst all the Middle eastern nations for SPECIALattack. It is not in any way the worst offender in the middle East ,indeed it has amongst the best human rights and yet it is singled out over and over again.

    To me its obvious--they hate Jews and they have a special love for Muslims (the same people generally want more Muslim immigration to the west) otherwise why single out Israel?
    They wont answer why, they will just list things they claim Israel does yet they wont address the worst countries. None seem to have the basic honesty to say why.
     
  2. Yetzerhara

    Yetzerhara Banned

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    I can explain. The pretext of discussing Israel provides an opportunity for those who hate Jews to surface and spew their hatred of Jews and ultimately political forums make moderator decisions as to how far they let the thread stray.

    Here is a classic example. Take a look at the now closed thread:

    "Israel demolishes West Bank homes, displacing 36 Palestinians."

    You find few of any responses to the above actual topic.

    What you will find is a bunch of posters who use the above thread to:

    1-make statements questioning Israel's right to exist as a state
    2-question the right of Israelis to be Jews
    3-question the right of Jews to be Israeli
    4-depict all Jews in negative references
    5-depict all Israelis in negative references.

    Its a vehicle to express hatred. To insult Jews all anyone has to do is put the word Israel or Zionist in the sentence these days and here is a classic example, consider these
    comments from a poster on the above closed thread which have nothing to do with the thread but everything to do with expressing hated for Jews from a poster with the name "Ricky Disciple".

    Post 551
    LOL only the Jews can get away with this sort of thing. There would be riots in the streets here in the west if it were any other group doing it.

    Post 754
    Look, I don't have anything against Jews,
    …don't think for a second I'm as weak as these other people who will run at the slightest charge of antisemitism--the Jews need a hell of a lot more criticizing than they have received, and they need to deal with it.
    Jews are the only group in this country who are off-limits, and in Europe it is somehow illegal to deny the holocaust (I do not deny it, but think it is bull(*)(*)(*)(*) that Jews get such privileges).

    As I said ultimately its moderators on forums who have to decide when and why they allow comments like the above.

    Israel criticism threads seldom actually criticize an Israeli state policy. If they do its fair game. The problem is the kind of people who like to come on this forum and
    engage in criticism of Israel don't differentiate their comments between Jews and Israeli state policy or Israelis and Israeli state policy.

    They smear them all.

    In the above the poster accused me of not saying anything about anti Muslim posts as his justification in one response. Anyone who has read my challenges knows I have
    repeated until doomsday its wrong to negatively generalize anyone, Jew, Muslim, Christian, gay in any thread discussion but the kind of people who are going to
    negatively stereotype and will continue to do so if they can get away with it and will use two tactics to justify it:

    1-you are as hateful as me so two wrongs make a write
    2-Jews(or whoever the target is) are evil.

    I say take a look at the pith and substance of the comments made on Israel and you will see the vast majority of them question the right of a Jew to be an Israeli, i.e., a citizen of a Jewish state because the belief is Jews should know their place in the world, and that is stateless.

    The people who criticize Israel do not hold Muslim states to the same standard and say Muslims should not have Muslim states, only Jews should not. That double standard often I would argue comes from a particular kind of Muslim who hides their identity on the board because they don't want to have to explain their double standard and how it is they believe in Muslim states but don't think Jews can have a state. They hide their identity and true Muslim beliefs which are based on dhimmitude-the system they were brought up on that defines non Jews as not allowed to have the same legal rights as Muslims anywhere in the world. Jews in Muslim states to this day can't own land, and are considered incapable of telling the truth and therefore testifying in court.

    Jews in Muslim countries live with many laws that entrench their inferiority and require they live in an apartheid system. So do for that matter Bahaiis, Christians, Zoroastreans, Kurds, Druze, Bhuddists, Hindus. The discrimination is against all non Muslims but in the case of Jews this belief fuels Muslim extremism in terrorist groups and the major reason they single out Israel.

    Israel to many Muslims is a symbol of the uppity Jew, the Jew who liberated themselves from dhimmitude. This is why for example the Arab League of nations ethnically cleansed itself of 900,000 Jews, forcing 700,000 of them to flee to Israel after it was created far more than any alleged displaced Palestinian Muslim from Israel.

    This is why they will only talk in one sided references to Israel that ignores the above and instead present a script revising history to suggest all Jews came to Israel from Europe as coonialists.

    Interestingly they will also not discuss Israeli citizens who who are Muslim and chose to stay in Israel and not leave. Those Palestinians who are Israeli citizens have all the legal and democratic rights, medical and social services not one non Muslim or for that matter Muslim has in Muslim countries. That is not discussed .

    Neither is the fact Jordan was illegally created in direct violation of the League of Nations mandate and awarded 77% of an area of land to be divided into one Jewish and one Muslim state as a Jew free Palestinian state.

    Now the hidden Muslim extremist critics of Israel who are fueled by religious extremism are joined by an interesting mix of alleged progressive liberals and neo Nazi types. The neo Nazis are easy to spot because they use code references such as "Jews are privileged". Muslim extremist critics have formed certain alliances on forums with neo Nazis deluded into thinking neo Nazis respect them for hating Jews when the same neo Nazis in Europe lining up with them to engage in anti Jewish rallies will be soon coming for them.

    Muslim Jewish haters sometimes take comfort in neo Nazis thinking they are allies. Its common for minorities who feel they are not liked to seek acceptance by showing the people they feel do not like them that they are the "same" and "worthy of friendship" through sharing in anti semitic exercises.

    Take a look today at the anti semtism in Europe. It comes from mostly unemployed young and angry neo Nazis, a small fringe group of alienated white youth who can't find jobs so blame Jews.

    Then it comes from extremist Muslims living in self regulated ghettoes.

    Now the vast majority of Muslims or whites don't subscribe to this crap but loud hateful groups get all the attention.

    Muslim moderates who do not hate Jews, who do not agree with terrorism, and do believe Jews should have a state, are afraid to speak out. If they do in the Middle East it gets them killed.

    When you speak out against Muslim extremism as brave students have particularly in Iran, they get killed.

    I could get into a lengthy discussion of how today's anti Israel criticism is often recycled anti semitism that originates right back to the basic premises of Christianity and Islam and that is they both believe Jews are cursed people. For Christians certain Gospels of the Bible, i.e., Matthew , were used to suggest Jews collectively bare guilt for the death of Christ and that includes their descendants. That anti semitism believed until every Jew converted to Christianity they were going to hell and the Church fueled attacks on Jews in villages every Christmas and Easter.

    Then somewhere that anti semtiism mutated and no longer was it good enough to convert to Christianity to be forgiven, a Jew now was not just a religious reference it became a negative racial one as implemented by the Nazis who said, Jews by blood were vermin and so no conversion would cleanse them and this lead to the holocaust the final culmination of a collective hatred of all Jews forcing the survivors to flee to Israel although some were able to go to France and the US after WW2 while most sat in displacement camps with anti semites who once tried to ship them off to gas chambers.

    It was the single handed battle of Elenor Roosevelt after WW2 who convinced the world Jews had a right to go to Israel and liberate themselves from their inferiority imposed on them by Christian states. Because this woman was a strong Christian she championed this case. She like righteous Christians who died in WW2 rejected the vision of a cursed Jew, a hated Jew and some died saving and hiding Jews others were marched into the camps along side Jews or like Jehova's Witnesses 7th Day Adventists died in the camps rather than swear loyalty to Hitler.

    Today ironically Israel would not survive without the grassroots support of Christians and we have this wierd dhichotomy of very strong Christian supporters of Israel and still other Christians who continue to preach anti semtiic beliefs. Even though the Catholic Church issued an edict saying the blaming of all Jews for the death of Christ is a doctrine to be rejected.

    Today in practice there is very little if any difference between Judaism and Christianity except for one issue whether you believe the word "Messiah" refers only to Jesus, or is a symbolic word meant to apply to the potential in all humans to save the world through good deeds.

    Moderate Muslims are just emerging. Their religion is far younger and the majority of their population, 80% of it, remains illiterate and therefore unable to form critical thought that questions their religious leaders. They merely repeat what they are told and in the absence of any state institutions that safeguard tolerance of non Muslims or allow free discussion, the majority don't evolve.

    However cell phones, inter-net have like a virus pierced the Muslim world bringing the message of materialism and its slowly getting to the next generations making them restless against their own Muslim elder governments.

    No longer satisfied to be humble servants they are rebelling and so the Muslim world is trying in an internal war to crack down on this Western virus and we see this civil war against the West played out in uprisings of its citizens and students. Israel once symbolized the "corrupt Western" values Muslim traditionalists loathed and feared would contaminate their world only now most Muslims in the Middle East have realized Israel is not the virus and never was the virus-the virus they fear and try now crush is one that permeates all societies the same way.

    Now of course the above will zip over the head of anti Israelis who can't handle more than one sentence and one verb.

    I leave you with this article to also try answer your question:

    http://www.mefacts.com/cached.asp?x_id=11101

    In a nutshell it says:

    "Individual Jews are not today the ones who are being singled out for discrimination, but it is the Jewish people in its collective sense - where Israel has become the Jew among the nations in which this new anti-Jewishness finds its expression."

    When we were stateless, we were attacked as simply Jews.

    Now we are a state collective we still are attacked for being Jews, but now it can be passed off as an intellectual rejection of Jews expressiong themselves as collective state entity when in
    fact its only a criticism of Jews and no other people when they choose to identity as a state entity.

    None of the anti Israeli critics single out Anglicans for having a British state or the Vatican for being a Catholic state, or India for retaining its Hindu religion as an intrinsic feature in its state institutions. Not one of these critics singles out Muslim states for being Muslim. No one singles out an Irish person, an Italian or 170 other states for identifying themselves as having an ethnic identity the state institution recognizes and protects, just Israel.

    No one will criticize the law of return for over 170 nations, just Israel because Israel's applies to Jews.

    Bottom line, the notion that a Jew expresses himself or herself not as a follower of Judaism the religion, but as a collective no different than the Irish or Italians drives neo Nazis and Muslims nuts.

    How dare we call ourselves a people and defend ourselves from anti Jews using a state and empowering ourselves through collective unity. No no no, we can't have Jews doing that.
     
  3. SamSkwamch

    SamSkwamch Banned

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    I don't see it as Israel getting singled out and while anti-Semites do jump on the bandwagon, the vast majority of criticism seems to boil down to insane double standards.

    Just look at how much money is sent to Israel from American tax dollars as more American tax dollars are spent daily dropping bombs on all her enemies.

    Have you ever heard of the “Symington Amendment” that congress passed back in 1976? In a nutshell, Sections 101 and 102 of the US’s Arms Export Control Act of 1976 specifically make it ILLEGAL to support any nuclear armed nation that refuses to sign the treaty for the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons which Israel has obviously refused to sign.

    Every single one of our tax dollars that gets transferred to Israel is illegal! Just think about that for a sec and what power that must take as billions gets funneled to her routinely. And keep in mind that every president, congressman, senator, etc. all know this as well as those who run MSM.

    Then, take a look at Israel's history with false flag terrorism that has been used over and over to trick American kids into fighting and dying for her, and against her enemies. A few obvious examples of her using this technique to blame Arab Muslims for her crimes include, but are not limited to:
    The Lavon affair
    The bombing of the King David Hotel
    Her attack on the USS Liberty

    Look at the "settlements," the stolen land, her highly racist attitude to the indigenous people, the fact she is known throughout most of the world as an apartheid regime, let alone the terror she uses daily to further her control of over a million of the indigenous people who remain under her control in what the Nobel prize winning, reverend, Desmond Tutu of South Africa once referred to as the largest open air prison on earth.

    Think what would happen if Iran were guilty of all this.
     
    Jazz likes this.
  4. DrewBedson

    DrewBedson Active Member

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    Indeed, then you go on to apply them yourself by omitting that both India and Pakistan also receive aid in the face of the SA, then errantly list the insurgent attack on the King David and the mistaken attack on the Liberty as False flag even though many nations from Nazi as well as NATO Germany, Italy, the US, Britain, Russia, South Africa, Indonesia all the way to Greece, Algeria, Turkey, the Ukraine and more have all committed false flag attacks.

    The rest of your mistaken rant is just that, filled with the canards of 'stolen land' 'apartheid' and topped off with the perfect example of a guy who applies the double standards you are determined to continue with - Tutu, the guy where Israel, and only Israel, is the one country that drives him to bust a vein. Not Syria, not ISIS, not Sudan, not Nigeria, not Mali, where thousands of fellow Christians are slaughtered, not even Mauritania, where Arab Muslims apply ethnic cleansing, torture and even slavery against his fellow blacks. Nope, only Israel.

    :confusion:
     
  5. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    people have the moral and human right to criticize Israel's often criminal actions in regards to the Palestinians
     
  6. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I very much agree. The anti-Jew Israel haters are prime supporters of Islamic extremism.
     
  7. SamSkwamch

    SamSkwamch Banned

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    You are all over the place with misconceptions, flat out lies, and general irrelevancy. This seems to happen constantly with the plethora of folks who spend endless time on the internet mouth-piecing for Israel. As far as double standards, you could do the same for her enemies, but don't. So let's be clear:
    1) India and Pakistan should not get a dime either, but that does not change the fact.
    2) You flat out lied about the King David hotel and the attack on the USS Liberty. And of course did even mention Lavon.
    3) There was nothing mistaken, nor did I rant or use canards of 'stolen land'...
    palestine_map-1.gif
    or 'apartheid.' The world knows what is true regardless of how much you wish we did not.
    4) How much water does it hold when a pro-Israeli, internet, warrior attempts to discredit a Nobel prize winner who lived through apartheid?
    5) The irony of you claiming "...Arab Muslims apply ethnic cleansing..." is quite telling. Amazingly, you understand that ethnic cleansing is hateful and pitiful, yet Israel of course gets another pass from you. Double standard much?
    6) Many of our orthodox rabbis understand this and have done their best to make these simple truths known. It is just a shame that you will rarely if ever see our rabbis who speak these truths on your TV.
    wpid-1405646952.jpg
     
  8. DrewBedson

    DrewBedson Active Member

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    Yet you single out Israel. And before you say you don't show us one anti India or Pakistan post where you have taken this stance on those two nations as you have in this instance with Israel.

    Neither of which were false flag events. You said they were so prove it if you have a problem with me disagreeing.

    Don't have to as false flag attacks are quite common to many nations as I listed so why are you singling out Israel for this one attack.

    Then prove that Israel has stolen land by telling us all what Palestinian land they have annexed. In the first picture it shows only privately owned Jewish land but fails to show privately owned Palestinian land painting the non privately owned Jewish land green in total when in fact, that non private land is nobody's as it is administered by the British until they turned the matter over to the UN who then partitioned it as per the second panel which is also inaccurate as it shows Jerusalem to be Palestinian when in truth it is, at that point an international city.

    The third picture is wrong as well as Gaza at that time was Egyptian, not Palestinian and the West bank was annexed by Jordan so also was not Palestinian and the fourth picture is also inaccurate as the Nation Of Palestine did not exist until 2012 and, since it has not rescinded their declaration of war, made peace and begun negotiations to secure borders will not be accurate until that occurs.

    And the rant about apartheid, show us this system of racial segregation enforced through legislation please. If you can't provide the laws which bar a person of a different race from being in government office in Israel and separate races from mingling in public, schools, beaches and streets then it is a rant.

    More than the guy who applies double standards towards Israel does.

    No double standards, Mauritania is an Islamic state that ethnically cleansed black Christians through violence, death, rape, terrorism and other deadly means which is what ethnic cleansing is, and forced them out of the country but nothing is said about that event nor many other events including the million or so killed in Rwanda in the one of the biggest hate crimes of our era. Ethnic Cleansing is the use of illegal terrorism, force, rape, violent intimidation and purging to ensure all traces of an ethnic group vacated an area. Legal eviction through the court is not ethnic cleansing hence, Israel is not guilty of ethnic cleansing so no double standard at all.


    So your world is now a five thousand person strong sect called Neturei Karta? Is the picture of all the Rabbis in that sect or is one missing from the event?
     
  9. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so, as long as there is worse committed anywhere or in time, Israel should be allowed to commit whatever she wants in the Occident's and Jews' names. Did I resume this well?
     
  10. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Israel sets itself to be singled-out, by claiming to be America's greatest ally with shaired valuues, the only democracy in the ME, and a liberal western democracy.

    with claims like this, they will be called out when their behavior fails to live up to these promises.

    Israel has also received around $100 billion in aid over the last 60 years.

    Israel is the reason for the Arab Oil boycott of the 1970s which led to massive oil prices for Westerners.

    Israel and her right-wing supporters pushed hard for the Iraq War, which was a disaster for the region and the world and killed more than 5,000 Americans.

    and now Israel and her right-wing supporters are pushing for a similar war against Iran.
     
  11. DrewBedson

    DrewBedson Active Member

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    So in certain cases it is fine to lie, stretch the truth, hate to the extent that one says an entire nation has no right to exist an accept terrorism and deliberate attacks on civilians as justified actions. Incredible. So why only Israel I have to ask Ronstar?

    Actually about 20 as eighty percent goes back to the US when they buy from them as the aid is conditional.

    By existing. Terrible Israel, they should have just rolled over and died.

    ""August 23, 1973—In preparation for the Yom Kippur War, Saudi king Faisal and Egyptian president Anwar Sadat meet in Riyadh and secretly negotiate an accord whereby the Arabs will use the "oil weapon" as part of the military conflict.""

    So did other liberal western democracies but I don't see the UK, Bulgaria, Spain or Poland getting this type of treatment.

    I've yet to hear about plans for the invasion of Iran. Please put me in the loop.
     
  12. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    bull(*)(*)(*)(*).

    if we give you $1 billion and you use it to buy our weapons, we just gave you free weapons.
     
  13. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Possibly because they're armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons?
    There's a huge argument there but I'll leave it for now.

    Then how do you explain those like me, born Jewish but developing an absolute loathing for all semitic tribal religions and the immense human suffering all those so called holy books have unleashed on our species? (In case that confuses you I'm refering to Judaism, Christianity and Islam.) How do you explain all the Israelis I know who are horrified by their own nation's policy towards the Pallestinians?
    As an Israeli friend in Safed said to me last time I was there :- "The moral blank cheque of the holocost was overdrawn some time ago"
    [/QUOTE]
     
  14. DrewBedson

    DrewBedson Active Member

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    And you get a lot more than that one billion in return.

    ""First, there is a financial reciprocity in this “special relationship” quite unlike any other that the USA has. Much, and in many years most, of the money that the USA gives Israel has been used by Israel to purchase goods and services, both military and civilian, from the USA, so that American aid money is recycled back into the American economy. Nearly 90% of US aid to Israel is military, and Israel spends about 75% of that buying U.S. goods. This aid has been described as an indirect American subsidy to U.S. arms manufacturers.""

    ""In the field of military intelligence Israel is arguably the world's leading expert in collecting intelligence on terrorist groups and in counter-terrorism. It provides intelligence and know-how to the U.S. According to Maj. Gen. George J. Keegan Jr., former head of U.S. Air Force intelligence, America's military defense capability "owes more to the Israeli intelligence input than it does to any single source of intelligence," the worth of which input, he estimated, exceeds "five CIAs." He further stated that between 1974 and 1990, Israel received $18.3 billion in U.S. military grants. During the same period Israel provided the U.S. with $50-$80 billion in intelligen(*)ce, research and developmen(*)t savings, and Soviet weapons systems captured and transferre(*)d to the U.S.[5]

    Israeli and American intelligence agencies continuously exchange information, analyses, and operational experience in counterterrorism and counter-proliferation. The U.S. Department of Homeland Security and its Israeli counterpart share technical know-how in defending against terrorist attacks, countering unconventional weapons and cyber-threats, and combating the drug trade. On the battlefield, Israeli armaments protect Bradley and Stryker units from rocket-propelled grenades, while Israeli-made drones and reconnaissance devices allow for safe surveillance of hostile territory. U.S. fighter aircraft and helicopters incorporate Israeli concepts and components, as do modern-class U.S. warships. The IDF has furnished U.S. forces with its expertise in the detection and neutralization of improvised explosive devices (IEDs), the largest cause of American casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Former Supreme Commander of NATO and U.S. Secretary of State Gen. Alexander Haig (deceased) described Israel as "the largest US aircraft carrier, which does not require even one US soldier, cannot be sunk, is the most cost-effective and battle-tested, located in a region which is critical to vital US interests. If there would not be an Israel, the US would have to deploy real aircraft carriers, along with tens of thousands of US soldiers, which would cost tens of billions of dollars annually, dragging the US unnecessarily into local, regional and global conflicts."[6]

    In short, support for Israel has been a very profitable investment for the USA. Israel is an ideal ally for America in the Middle East. Haifa is one of the safest and most hospitable ports for the 6th Fleet, a dependable base for pre-positioning emergency military stores for deployment in neighboring countries, and a base for close-by sophisticated medical services.""

    Say Ronstar, how much of a kickback or security return does Palestine give back for the billions the US has provided them? That's right, nothing save kidnap a few Americans here and there.
     
  15. DrewBedson

    DrewBedson Active Member

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    Doubt it as that is rarely mentioned when denigrating Israel and really has no bearing on anything in the here and now.

    Good because there are some pretty bad offenders of human rights that have nuclear weapons that are never subjected to the scrutiny that Israel is.

    Simple. Left wingers who oppose any and everything a right leaning government does. Every nation has them so your pals who, like you hold the same views is no surprise. If you expanded your Israeli social circle you would find that you are the minority rather than the majority.

    Hardly. Twelve million dead of deliberately inflicted disease, starvation, execution because they were different is a debt that can never be repaid. To even hint that it can be is so wrong it's evil.
     
  16. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How comforting for you not to be concerned Israel will make a preemptive strike, which given the distinct possibility of groups such as Isis getting their hands on such weapons isn't an impossibility and from some perspectives wouldn't be unjustified.
    Nth Korea isn't subjected to scrutiny already?
    Your ideological preconceptions are blinding you. As to my social circle it includes officials of the Friends of the Israel Philharmonic in a number of countries, many members of the philharmonic itself, ( one of whom I confess is very left in his thinking) several academic scholars of Tanakh, Torah etc,a managing director of an Israeli electronics firm, chief psychiatrist for an Israeli army hospital, owner of a Tel Aviv brothel etc . How exactly do you suggest I widen my circle of Israeli friends? As to any assertion I myself may be a left winger my view of ideology of all kinds is none of them are sufficient to prevent the devastation human nature is about to unleash on this planet, more particularly the ancient blood soaked tribal animosities between the tribe of Israel and other semitic tribes.
    We differ but thank you for the detailed description of the nature of the holocaust in which more members of my family vanished than I care to think about. In short I know enough about your blindness to realise further discussion with you is pointless.You are as blind as the present Israeli government itself.
    If I may be so vulgar as to quote from The King James version Psalm 58:V:10. :- "The righteous shall rejoice when he seethe the vengeance: has shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked."
     
  17. DrewBedson

    DrewBedson Active Member

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    I take it you have found the flaws in Israel's nuclear security which makes it possible for ISIS to gain access to materail and weapons. Please let us all in on your findings.

    I haven't seen you on many anti NK threads lately. Come to think of it can't remember the last time I have seen you posting about human rights in India or Pakestan and their not being members of NPT either. Perhaps you can point us all to those posts you made which we have missed.

    You missed a few, the parents of these kids for sure anyhow.

    Poll: 59% of Israeli youth are right-wing

    ""A full 59% defined themselves as right-wing, while another 23% said they were centrist, and only 13% identified as leftist. Another 5% said they have no position.""

    And to allow the deliberate deaths of millions of innocents is evil. Thanks for not bothering to get back to me as I agree with you that me seeing your pathetic point of view where you can forget this sort of thing is pointless. Have fun with your left wing intelligentsia pals.
     
  18. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nth Korea is the flaw and Israeli security will not be able to stop it until too late.
    Putting aside for now your search has been anything but thorough, what the hell does my posting or not posting in this place have to do with the validity of any argument?
    So what?
    Did I say it wasn't?
    Your English expression here is so mangled I'm unsure what you're trying to say. Left wing intelligentsia pals? Can't you read?
    You're on my ignore list . I trust you will do me a similar favour and put me on yours.
    If I may quote from Yok scripture :- Thessalonians Ch:2.V:11. "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie"
     
  19. DrewBedson

    DrewBedson Active Member

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    North Korea, ISIS? You're all over the map.

    Lots. You omit to post about the poor human rights records of other nuclear armed nations and concentrate on Israel and then excuse your unwarranted attention by saying it is ""because they're armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons""

    You asked "" How do you explain all the Israelis I know who are horrified by their own nation's policy towards the Pallestinians?""

    I merely showed that you were in the minority as Most Israelis are right wing. It's nice that you hang with the minority left though.

    No but, you believe that we can now forget about it as you said "The moral blank cheque of the holocost was overdrawn some time ago""

    I explained this in proper English when I said;

    ""And to allow the deliberate deaths of millions of innocents is evil. Thanks for not bothering to get back to me as I agree with you that me seeing your pathetic point of view where you can forget this sort of thing is pointless""

    Incidentally, the event is spelled 'Holocaust.' While I'm hardly a stickler for spelling I thought that since so many of your relatives died in this horrible event I felt you might someday want to spell it correctly when you tell people about it and why they need not remember as "The moral blank cheque of the holocost was overdrawn some time ago"

    When you said ""further discussion with you is pointless"" I thought I already was so this time I truly hope so as I don't enjoy exchanging words with you as I don't appreciate those who can wash things like the Holocaust away for political points. As I said;

    "Twelve million dead of deliberately inflicted disease, starvation, execution because they were different is a debt that can never be repaid. To even hint that it can be is so wrong it's evil."

    I will miss your scripture recitings though. They are so, so ..... rambling and pretentious.
     
  20. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    you seem to be unable to address the theme of this thread which is why SINGLE OUT Israel when there are worse countries right next door.I presume you have no answer.
     
  21. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    The answer is very simple really... There are 22 x Arab countries
    There are 24 x Muslim countries
    Total 46 countries against one Israel.

    They always vote in <block> and they can pass anything in the UN...
     
  22. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    You see things in a simplistic fashion... let me elaborate a little on the subject matter.

    AID PACKAGE TO ISRAEL

    A Super Power i.e. the US does not shower Countries with its largesse’s because of the liking or disliking of an individual State...

    It does what it does with the distinctly premeditated intent of taking advantage of a situation to its own benefit.
    In the case of Israel... this Country has been an asset to the US in the Middle East the past 68 years..., it is, has been and will be the ONLY SAFE non floating Aircraft Carrier at the disposal of the US... It has the ONLY SAFE PORTS and the ONLY SAFE ARMAMENTS and ORDINANCE Storage Facilities for the US in the Middle East... Israel has been the ears and the eyes... and the frequent tester of Russian and US Armament/Ordinance for the benefit of the US.... All kind of new innovations and Israeli inventions were surreptitiously extended to the U.S… And, who knows what else...?

    The US extends its ‘Aid Package’ to no less than 56 States in the World!

    Before the discovery of gas in the Mediterranean sea… Israel had a

    GNP of approx. 250 Billion Dollars and can surely do without the measly 3,1 Billion Dollars in Aid Package and all the pressures and pressure tactics that this entails... Provided naturally that the 2,6 Billions are ALSO taken away from Egypt and umpteen Millions away from Jordan and the PA Terrorists.

    Israel GDP
    Israel attained the highest Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth rate among Western (OECD) economies during 1995, averaging 6 percent during these years. Its per capita GDP (today some $16,800), places it 21st among 200 countries in the world. Although a small country (populations 8 million now), Israel's international position in some areas of industrial and agricultural production capacity and exports is remarkable. Free trade agreements with Europe (the European Union and European Free Trade Association) and the United States facilitate Israel's $31.3 billion of exports (goods and services, 1996) and its participation in international business enterprises, contributing to the country's accelerated growth since 1990.

    'An Economic Miracle'
    For the first 25 years, the economy reached a striking average growth rate in the GDP of about 10 percent annually, while at the same time absorbing several mass immigration, building a modern economy, fighting four wars and maintaining security. This 'economic miracle' is ascribed largely to the use made of economic aid received over the years, enabling mass capital investment in means of production, and to the country's success in rapidly absorbing immigrants and involving them in productive settings. Between 1973 and 1979 the growth rate decreased (as in most industrialized countries, partly due to the oil crises of 1973/4 and 1979/80) to a yearly average of 3.8 percent and, in the 1980s, it dwindled to 3.1 percent. Since 1990 it has averaged 6 percent. In 1996 the total GDP was $92.3 billion ($16,785 per capita), a 25-fold real increase since 1950.

    1998 Statistic
    Elscint is based in Israel, a dynamic world center of high technology and science-based industries, with one of the fastest growing economies in the world. Israel's Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is increasing at an average annual rate of 6.4%, compared to 0.5% for the U.S., 2.2% for Germany, and 2.8% for Japan. Gross Domestic Product per capita ranks with that of Hong Kong. Israel invests almost a fifth of its national output on education, just ahead of Singapore, Japan, France, Germany and the United States.
    The country's seven universities enjoy top ranking and Israelis with higher education account for approximately 25% of the population. Major firms like National Semiconductor, IBM, Intel, DEC, Motorola and Microsoft, have set up research here.


    High-Tech in the Promised Land
    Elscint started at the Technion, the first university established in modern Israel. Technion's more than 36,000 graduates provide the highly trained engineers and scientists for high-tech industry in Israel. Elscint regularly draws from this valuable resource.

    The <Aid Package>extended to Israel, Egypt, Jordan and the PA amounts to less than a Fraction of 1% of the GLOBAL AID PACKAGE.

    Please take the time to educate yourselves on the subject matter.
     
  23. Yetzerhara

    Yetzerhara Banned

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    With due respect, trying to rationalize hatred and discrimination against Israel as suggesting its because they have nuclear weapons, is bordering on absurd.

    Here's an article directly on point repudiating your suggestion:

    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/artic...ael-and-the-nuclear-threat-in-the-middle-east

    " Pertinent questions arise. With its implicit ("deliberately ambiguous") nuclear capacities, why should Israel need a conventional deterrent at all? After all, even after Palestinian statehood, wouldn’t all rational enemy states desist from launching any conventional or biological attacks upon Israel out of an entirely sensible fear of Israeli nuclear retaliation?

    Not necessarily. Aware that Israel would cross the nuclear threshold only in very extraordinary circumstances, these enemy states could be convinced – rightly or wrongly – that as long as their attacks remained recognizably non-nuclear, Israel would always respond in kind.

    The only credible way for Israel to deter large-scale conventional attacks after the creation of Palestine would be by maintaining visible and large-scale conventional capabilities. Of course, enemy states contemplating any first-strike attacks using chemical or biological weapons are apt to take more seriously Israel's nuclear deterrent, whether newly-disclosed, or still "in the basement." A strong conventional capability is needed by Israel essentially to deter or to preempt conventional attacks, attacks that could, if they were undertaken, lead quickly via escalation to various forms of unconventional war. "
     
  24. DrewBedson

    DrewBedson Active Member

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    Yep.

    So much for the 'Mad Dog' argument.
     
  25. Yetzerhara

    Yetzerhara Banned

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    The same way I would explain why Muslims reject terrorism or hatred of Israelis or are horrified by what fellow Muslims do to Jews or anyone else.

    With due respect its a trite question.

    Its as trite as saying how do you explain Jews like me who believe Jews have the same right to be nationals as Muslims anre are horrified by people like you who makesweeping negative generalizations about religions-then use those sweeping negative generalizations to play good Jew v. bad Jew and present someone's alleged quote.

    How do you explain people like me who volunteered in Israel, dug latrines, tended and picked trees, unclogged toilets, peeled potatoes (after I washed my hands thank you), and carried a medic bag and not a gun and cleaned Muslim and Jewish feet that had fungus infections?

    How do you explain why Jews like me support the Jews of Israel because they were born there and as sabras have no reason to apologize for where they were born anymore than the descendants and survivors of the holocaust or Arab League ethnic cleansing?

    Hmmmm?

    How do you explain why you think your being an anti Israeli, atheist born a Jew is even relevant to the issue?

    Does your being someone who rejects Judaism as a religion mean you also suggest since you are not practicing the religion, magic and poof, you are no longer a Jew?

    Where have you been. Here let me break it to you gently. Muslim terrorists, like the Nazis they emulate, they could care less if you practice Judaism, deny you are a Jew, claim since you don't practice Judaism. they won't string you alive.

    You need to get real. Your being a Jew doesn't change because you don't practice Judaism or change your name.

    Hide it, deny it, knock yourself out being a non Jew. Whoopy doo dah on that. Problem is people who hate you for being a Jew won't stop hating you. It won't make you invisible.

    How do I explain your positions? Well you asked:

    The Roots of Self-Hatred

    Today, accusations of Jewish self-hatred are most commonly levied in discussions of Israel and Zionism. Interestingly, the modern concept of Jewish self-hatred actually has its roots in early debates about political Zionism, where the groundwork for its use was laid by Theodor Herzl, founder of modern Zionism. ....

    ...The term “self-hatred” was popularized in the United States in the 1940s, when it first appeared in an essay written by psychologist Kurt Lewin “Self-Hatred among Jews” in Contemporary Jewish Record, in 1941. The essay was more widely distributed when it was published with a collection of Lewin’s other essays in his book, Resolving Social Conflicts, in 1948. Lewin, a German Jew who immigrated to the US in 1932, explained Jewish self-hatred as a phenomenon in which Jews, regarded as a minority or “other” by the host societies they lived in, resented and distanced themselves from all things Jewish. In other words, Lewin claimed, Jewish self-hatred occurs when society marginalizes Jews, who then internalize the sense of marginalization."
     

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