How Many Aircraft Do You Need Airborne For An Effective CAP?

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Dayton3, Apr 19, 2016.

  1. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    I've been reading about carriers and other surface ships for years and I've wondered just how many aircraft you need to provide an effective combat air patrol for a carrier (or other task forces). By "effective" I'm referring to how many aircraft carrying how many air to air missiles do you need to prevent a massed launch of air to surface missiles against your ships?

    Think a TU-22M Backfire type of attack with each Backfire carrying two air to surface missiles.

    I assume you also have some kind of long range Airborne Early Warning (AEW) aircraft airborne along with your CAP as well.
     
  2. Shelly Ann

    Shelly Ann Active Member

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    Aircraft Carrier battle groups require multi layered airborne defense not just to protect the carrier but the battle group as a whole, plus underwater assets. The missions given to these groups are complicated and intense, sometime the carriers compliment of planes are not enough. The exact amount of various aircraft and armament is confidential but the Carriers usually carry roughly 90 different combat aircraft including variants depending on the mission..

    Shelly Ann - Lieutenant U.S Navy
     
  3. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Current American carrier air wings have little more than 40 fixed wing aircraft assigned.
     
  4. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Depends on the carrier. They are all different. They only have 85-90 max aircraft on board. Aircraft are not the only defenses a boat has. It has other boats, usually a sub very close by, and various on-board close-in weapons systems to counter incoming missiles. Obviously the system can be overwhelmed theoretically, but I am not sure anybody has the capability to do that if the boat's systems are intact and operational. The sea whiz is glitchy enough though that I would not want to depend on it for life or death though.
     
  5. Shelly Ann

    Shelly Ann Active Member

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    I'm talking about the entire ships compliment. Fixed wing, helicopter and other assets.
     
  6. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    You're a Naval officer?

    Thanks for your service ma'am.

    Are you a graduate from Annapolis?
     
  7. Shelly Ann

    Shelly Ann Active Member

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    Yes I am!! Thanks herkdriver

    I graduated from Annapolis in 2008!
     
  8. Shelly Ann

    Shelly Ann Active Member

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  9. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    USMA '91. I got out before all the (*)(*)(*)(*) started.
     
  10. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Antimissile defense and anti-aircraft defense is also ship borne so we do not rely just on air cover.
     
  11. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    Only the best and brightest attend our nation's service academies. I wish you fair winds and following seas in your Navy career and again, my sincerest appreciation.
     
  12. Shelly Ann

    Shelly Ann Active Member

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    Aww. You're so nice.. :) I work in Research and Development. I graduated from Annapolis in advanced mathematics and work with the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense Program.

    Kisses herkdriver on the cheek. :)
     
  13. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Nice answer LT.

    PS if you really are active duty you should not use any part of you real name as a screen name. That;s free advice from . Partizan - USAF -Ret
     
  14. Shelly Ann

    Shelly Ann Active Member

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    Hi!! It's not my real name. it's a name I used in high school when approached by guys I didn't want to give my real name and phone number to.. LOL

    Thanks for your concern. I love air force guys!!
     
  15. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    You should be up for an oak leaf or two LT....
     
  16. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think it was real after all you are not an 0-1 ....
     
  17. Shelly Ann

    Shelly Ann Active Member

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    What did you fly??
     
  18. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    DOPMA guidelines suggest promotions to LCDR after attaining nine to eleven years of cumulative commissioned service.
     
  19. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't fly, I did Avionics with C_130's stateside and in Vietnam I was with a C-7 Caribou squadron. It was a twin engine cargo all purpose hauler for short landing / take off drops. " We " hauled everything from food and ammo to Greenie Beanies, ARVN paratroopers and ammo and water bufollos or chickens to remote Vietnamese villages. Also did avionics with the twin engine C123 Provider, "we" dropped Agent Orange.
     
  20. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But the U.S. Navy no longer deploys Carrier Battle Groups (CBG) but the smaller Carrier Strike Group. (CSG)

    I suppose the U.S. Navy could form three CBG at the most today, the Navy is so small today they don't have enough ships to form CBG's unlike when G.W. Bush was CnC and was able to put 8 CBG to sea all at one time, two of those CBG's were in the 5th Fleet AOR conducting combat operations over Iraq and Afghanistan. Today you have Obama's PC Navy where the navy's primary mission is no longer war fighting but social engineering.

    Carrier Battle Group: -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_battle_group#/media/File:Abraham-Lincoln-battlegroup.jpg

    Carrier Strike Group: -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carri...le:George_Washington_Carrier_Strike_Group.jpg
     
  21. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From what I have read, the former Soviet Union and I suppose today's Russia would send out an "naval attack air regiments" to attack a U.S. Navy CBG or CSG.

    How many Backfire and badgers are in a Russian naval air regiment ? I notice below they mention air regiments and backfire air groups and badger air groups.

    Excerpt:
     
  22. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    IIRC an "air regiment" consists of 21 bombers.
     
  23. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    This question really can not be answered. Might as well ask "how many police need to be on-duty", "what play should a quarterback use", and "how many pins can dance on the head of an angel".

    For one, the defense of a carrier is multi-layered. And in most instances, the actual first layer of defense is the detection of inbound threats. Typically this is via AWAC and the AEGIS system. And with a current range of over 120 miles, the missiles from our Cruisers and Destroyers would be the first things to intercept any inbound missiles. Then the fighters, then finally the CIWS. Of course, there are other things like electronic jamming, and other passive defensive systems as well.

    And another major factor is the alert level. The size of the CAP will vary greatly depending on both local and international conditions. The CAP when transiting around Hawaii or Guam is going to be nothing like the CAP when transiting the Straight of Hormuz. And of course there is the mission of the carrier in the first place. Is it acting to defend another ship or a piece of ground, or going in search of other known or suspected enemy vessels?

    Sorry, but there really is no way to answer your question. To vague.
     
  24. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    I've actually been thinking of combat air patrols when carriers were not available.

    For example lets say you have a surface action group operating in a threat environment where at least one regiment (21 bombers) of Backfires might be available to Russia or China for an attack.

    Assume the surface action group has 12 helicopters available capable of each carrying two Amraam missiles and the group has two of the AEW Sea King helicopters like the British used in the Falklands, can they defend the group?
     
  25. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last night I went to a Russian government military website.

    I notice that in 2008 there was a big reorganization of the Russian naval aviation where many of the fix wing squadrons, regiments were transfered over to the Russian air force.

    They listed the squadrons and type of aircraft but didn't say how many aircraft in each squadron or regiment.

    The Ruskies use air regiments and air divisions but also use the term squadrons.

    In the aviation American military we have squadrons, air groups and air wings.

    Comparing American aviation units to infantry units;

    squadron = battalion

    air group = regiment

    air wing = division

    I concur that a Russian bomber regiment might consist of 21 bombers because I saw on one website that listed one Backfire bomber regiment consisting of two squadrons of 10 Backfire bombers each.

    But I saw a Mig-31 regiment having four squadrons of 15 Mig-31's each.
     

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