We keep hearing that Europe is our biggest market, but it's no good having the demographic if the constituent parts of it are skint - as they soon will be when the Euro crashes - and won't be able to afford to buy what we have to sell. DUH!! So the sooner we get out there and find some new markets, the better!
I would think the same if I was British. Then, there's huge pobablities that UE will not exist anymore in a few decades or even in a few years. So that no one will care anymore that UK leave. UE is less and less liked in quite all the countries of Europe, and if UK leave, it will be the open door to lots of other countries to leave.
Good thinking - it'll be the nightmare scenario of all EU elitists and bureaucrats because all their wealth is in Euros, and they know that the 'domino effect' would take them down along with the rest of us. When we hear they're converting their money into dollars we'll know the game's up with Le Grand Projet, and they're getting the hell out. We (the UK) should get the hell out before it's too late.
I think you're right. I don't see how the situation of EU can improve; EU will dispear or change so much that it won't have a lot of links with the EU of nowdays. Then, UK have the luck to not be too engaged in EU and not to have euro as monney - so that it will be easier to leave. For other countries, it may creat more hard troubles.
Knowing the history of European cooperation post WWII would tell you that it is very unlikely. An English exit seems unlikely as the UK will fall apart if they vote yes. England would find itself alone and much worse than now triggering a quick return. We have already been through this but the English seem to have a short memory and bad learning capabilities.
How that?... EU of nowdays is far to what they done just after the WWII. At first, it was a just a cooperation between Germany and France in order to stop conflicts between these countries. Then, EU of nowdays don't have a lot of link with what was done just after the WWII and is making European states more and more weaks. Switzerland and Norway are'nt in EU and these countries are not alone - they are even in a really better state than most of European countries. I think UK will have problems just after living EU, there will of course be troubles, but in a longer delay, it will finally be a really good thing for them. Almost if UE continue in getting worsen and worsen as it's the case nowdays; or if EU dispear. Lots of Britishs are just realist about the situation of EU, and I hope that the rest of Europe will be inspired by them.
No.The EU is not making the EU-members weaker. I don't know where you get all this faulty knowledge from. As with the EU falling apart you seem not know your history. There are historic, political and unique economic reasons for Switzerland and Norway being able to stay out. And even with those circumstances they are deeply dependent on the EU and it working. I can only recommend you read more than you have obviously done.
One make european countries loose their soverainty, and the people are loosing some rights; one just have to look at the pools about TTIP, who is clearly rejected by european but that governements will impose to use to see that people loose serverainty. It's the same with monney. Germans, British, Frenchs, etc, etc... Have to pay for countries like Greece, etc, and no one asked their opinion about that. Then, states are weaker because they are less free to act. For exemple, recently, some french supermarkets wanted to help french farmers who have bigs economical problem (mostely because of UE)- and they have been condaned by UE because it's "unfair" for european non-french farmers... It's just an exemple from lots of. Countries can't act like they want because of the "fairness" between European countries, so that one can't solve the problem and the countries became less and less powerful because they can't act for themself; and they need to do so. This is not only about history. The main reason why Norway and Switzerland aren't in EU is that they just don't want to be in; and I don't think they regret it, really. The most I read about EU, the most I find it very badely made. I'm far to be the only one.
Under the traitor Cameron we'll never leave - not in a million years. You probably know that we're undergoing an austerity program here - well the working classes are . . . the elitist classes are living it up more than they ever did . . . and the reason isn't to repay our national debt (which is more now than it was a year ago), but to keep the effing Euro from crashing.
Project Fear is going strong over there too, I see? The sooner we leave the sooner we'll be free of this ill-conceived fiasco called the EU. I'll go further, and say that we should leave before it's too late, and we get dragged down into the abyss with our 'partners'.
Good advice - read as much EU-published propaganda as you can find, and you'll be brainwashed before you can say 'Jacques Delors'.
Actually the only sovereignty lost is the one given freely by either the parties people vote for or the referendums they pass. I never understood how you can be so uninformed about the EU. Most countries have seen their citizens rights and rights on many levels such as economic, cultural and environmental being reinforced by the subsequent EU-treaties. I am not sure where you get your daily news and information from. Clearly you get them from sources that do not provide you very good information as is clearly seen.
Over where? If the EU has been a fiasco you know nothing of European history nor the past 70 years of European cooperation. You are free to believe what you want... The EU without England will be a disaster only for the English. Most countries have been dragged up, moored and forced to reform their institutions to the better. Only the ignorant would claim otherwise.
The conspiratorial mind. A certain indication of a persons limited knowledge and inability to grasp a complex world.
Er, over there in Europe - that's where you are isn't it? Name me one thing the fat-cat bureaucrats of the EU have done that any one of its constituent states couldn't have done? I don't need to know 70 years of European history in order to present an observation of what its like now. It's a disaster for us right now, except for those parasites who are making a lucrative living out of it, or intend to in the future under their 'retirement plans'. We'll be putting that £350b per week to better use than what it's being used for now, viz. saving the effing Euro. I don't know what you mean by 'dragged up' and 'moored', but like I said above - name one of these supposed benefits which we've been 'forced' ((*)(*)(*)(*)ing cheek that unelected foreigners should force the English to do anything!!) upon us to the better?
This is why we need to leave in cold hard facts: 1. The economy of the EU is shot and irrecoverable. It is now a mountain of debt that is starting to bite. Countries such as Greece are never going to recover and have no hope of ever paying their debt off. Instead it will eventually have to be written off - a massive amount of money that will have to be shared among EU members. That debt is not getting smaller. Half of the EU countries are now borrowing just to service interest on debt. 2. The free movement of people has been a disaster for the UK. We now have over 3 million eastern Europeans living in the UK. It has caused wages to tumble and costing jobs of local people. Visit many of the towns around the West of London where employers have slashed wages to minimum wage because the eastern Europeans who are living 10 to a house can afford to live on that, but a family cant. 3. We can not afford these extra people. The vast majority don't get even close to earning the average national wage (about £27k). So, they pay less than 4k a year in tax. That doesn't even cover the cost of educating a couple of kids. Never mind providing health care, social benefits, 4. The costs of staying in are massive. Not only are we handing over £10 billion a year in membership, but it is estimated that just the 100 most bureaucratic rules from the EU cost business £100 billion a year. 5. The mass migration currently hitting the EU is a mess that countries such as Germany have caused themselves and now don't really know what to do about it. Other than talk about sharing migrants out. The UK does not want, need or should take hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants because the EU has been to slow and too pathetic to get its act together. I have yet to read a actual reason for remaining that holds up to scrutiny.
It's why the US, NATO, and Uncle Tom Cobley and all are demonizing Russia - to indoctrinate us into believing that we need to be in the EU for our security to fight the 'aggressor'!! But hey, it makes a change from playing the good ol' 'Jobs will be at risk if we leave.' card I suppose. Good post, stormy.
This is not the only soverainty wich are lost. They of course count a lot - we're not in a democracy anymore because people don't choice who govern them, it's far to be an irrevelant problem. We lost our soverainty in commercial: one can't creat any kind of solidarity in the country because it's "unfair" for other europeans - we lost our soverainty about immigration, this is now Germany who open the door of Europe without ask anyone else and who want to impose quotas to all the others countries, who are in majority against. We lost our financial soverainty - one can't make inflation in our monney as we did before in France because of Euro and of the fact Germany reffuse this kind of things, etc, etc... There's lots of subjects where we loose our soverainty. And I don't understand why you think all the people who don't follow propaganda's idea are "uninformed" when one just simply don't have the same opinion than you. Tell people they don't know about EU because you disagree what they think about it isn't a serious argument... Information about what? Please, precise. I'm pretty sure I won't have any problem to find you artcile in serious newpaper speaking about it.
I think things will change in Europe soon - almost when next elections will come. The migration crisis have to good effect to show everybody how EU is unorganized and weak. One can thanks Merkel for the stupid idea she had. EU only can increase this kind of differences. Working class suffer of the free concurrence and the unemployment increase a lot because of that in lot of european countries.
I fear that Europe is in for a very hard time and in the very near future. There is no turning the clock back.
Horse manure. Every single party stood for election on the same manifesto promise in more than one election. "We will not sign any EU membership before giving the UK a referendum". Sovereignty was not freely given, it was taken. Cheated from us by wilfully and deliberately undemocratic politicians. The people that gave it away represented no one but themselves as individuals. It is not the case that we weren't asked our opinion about it, we were. Multiple times and each time we said "no". Clearly and loudly. I don't really think "treason" is too strong a word for what occurred. It's sounds pretty inflammatory but in most other countries in the world, if their leaders behaved in this way, there would be a revolution. I think treason is actually an accurate description of what took place.
I'm in Ireland. Had you known any county before entering the EU and seen them 10-15 years later you would never write this. We will bin this one in the "lack of knowledge". It is getting full. You can look at Ireland and Portugal as examples of what the EU has done. You can look at the new Eastern European countries too. Empty pathos filled words based on zero substance. No surprise. Try looking into the rights given by the EU treaties. Try this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_of_the_European_Union Many countries actually have less protection for their citizens than in the EU and therefore they are dragged up and moored. Basic knowledge for anyone with interest in comparative law, constitutions and history.
You voted for those parties for the last 60 years since you decided to join the EU. The process of joining took around a decade while De Gaulle blocked it and you negotiated a rebate during Thatcher. You have refused to join, then begged to join, dragged your feet, negotiated rebates and tried to change it from within. All the while some people claim they never had a choice. Ignorance is rampant in England. Turning into America are we?
