Whose Crimea

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by Alik Bahshi, May 16, 2016.

  1. Alik Bahshi

    Alik Bahshi Member

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    Song Tatar singer Dzhamali Eurovision remind the world community whose Crimea and the genocide of the indigenous population of Crimea, which resumed after the Russian annexation of Crimea.

    Alik Bakhshi
    Whose Crimea

    Frankly cynical and barefaced blatant attempt by Moscow to push its corrupt henchman in the election of the Ukrainian president has caused anger and indignation of the people of Ukraine and was the cause of the Orange Revolution occurred. Moreover, once the Kremlin's political failure finally led Ukraine from Russian influence and initiated the political direction of the country towards the United Europe. Updated Ukraine is not without reason sees in her political protection from Moscow indispensable future encroachments and hopes for economic assistance to the West. Provocation Russian gas supplies to Ukraine in winter, wearing clearly registered political character was edinodushno condemned the West, which shows the understanding of the danger exposed by the Empire young independent state.

    The loss of Ukraine greatly alter the geopolitical situation in the Russian Black Sea basin in the strategic plan. Deprived of the Crimea and Odessa, the Russian Black Sea fleet is already squeezed in the confined space of the Black Sea (in the case of war, the Bosphorus slams) does is trapped in the waters of Novorossiysk and in the shallow waters of the Azov Sea. In the future, the entire south-western flank of the Russian Empire almost remained without cover fleet. The only real way out of a difficult situation for Russia is to keep the port of Sevastopol after the end of the lease it from the Ukraine, and even better to recapture the entire Crimea. Russia considers Ukraine a lifetime of their ancestral lands, and therefore gave her the Crimea, the conquest of which cost Russia a lot of effort in the last Russian-Turkish wars. Of course, the Kremlin leaders could not think how inglorious end expects the USSR, and even more so that the Ukrainian people, the most fraternal of all fraternal peoples, suddenly wants to self-administer their own destiny.

    Who could have foreseen the Kremlin politicians that Ukraine will gain the status of an independent state, or the Crimean peninsula would not be a simple stroke of the pen was introduced in the Ukraine. However, here we must take into account one very important fact, which everyone as if accidentally forgotten, namely, that the Crimean peninsula was never a native Russian land, or, Crimea not, under any circumstances, would not be transferred to Ukraine. In one Russian warriors are right Crimea, is that the transfer of Crimea to Ukraine or Kievan Rus, let alone Ukraine, historically controlled the territory. In the dispute over Crimea forget the indigenous peoples who have been forcibly displaced from their native land for showing (although quite understandable) sympathy for the Germans during the Second World War. But even with this in mind, this punishment of an entire people is unprecedented and cruel. Then we would have with the Hungarians and Romanians deported somewhere in Yakutia. What Romanians, Germans themselves as the main culprits, move, say, to the North Pole.

    The Crimean Tatars have disappeared in an instant by the will of the famous leader - the father of all peoples comrade. Stalin. It was the people, and gone forever. By the way, it is appropriate to note a very important historical fact reflected in a letter to the leaders of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee Mihoelsa, Feffer, Epstein Stalin, on the subject of creation in Crimea of the Jewish Autonomous Republic.

    In a letter registered office of the Stalin dated 15 February 1944, ie before the Crimean liberation and to the mass deportation of the indigenous people - Crimean Tatars, the leaders of the JAC Mikhoels, Epstein, Feffer proposed to create in the Crimea, no more no less, the Soviet Jewish socialist republic, arguing that it is associated with a happy fate of an entire people (http://scepsis.net/library/id_1632.html):
    "With a view to the normalization of economic growth and development of Soviet Jewish culture, in order to maximize the mobilization of all forces of the Jewish people for the benefit of the Soviet homeland in order to complete the equation the situation of the Jewish masses among the fraternal peoples, we believe timely and appropriate, in the order of the decision of post-war problems of the question on the establishment of a Jewish Soviet socialist republic.
    It seems to us that one of the most suitable areas was to the Crimea, which is most relevant to the requirements both in terms of roominess for relocation, and because of the existing successful experience in the development of the Jewish national districts there.
    Creating a Jewish Soviet republic would just always allowed in a Bolshevik, in the spirit of the Leninist-Stalinist national policy issue of state-legal status of the Jewish people and the further development of its centuries-old culture. no one has been able to resolve this problem for many centuries, and it can only be solved in your great socialist country.
    The construction of the Jewish Soviet republic would have given us considerable assistance and Jewish masses all over the world, wherever they may be "

    Stalin, perfectly understanding the influence of American Jews in the American policy, organized in 1942, the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, not just any international, namely Hebrew, in order to obtain assistance from America. Perhaps due to this circumstance, Roosevelt talks with Churchill and Stalin for the post-war world was inclined to listen to more of the latter, which subsequently turned out for America's Cold War. The leaders of the JAC, having great authority in America, and receiving direct financial support, it seems, feel great politicians, because the letter was similar to their request, and does not really request. While Stalin was understandably hesitated, Jewish Committee in 1944 have not demanded autonomy in Crimea, and the creation of the Jewish Soviet Socialist Republic, like other national republics, one can assume, and resulted in the decision to deport the indigenous people of Crimea. Over time, when Stalin no longer needed in America, he shot all imagines himself equal to his Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee leaders.

    Recently, the remnants of the Crimean people are trying to revive their community in their historical homeland, which negatively assessed the Russian media. Information, verging sometimes hysterical, that a potential threat subjected to almost all the international community in the case of the return of the Crimean Tatars, ie Muslims, it emphasizes especially on their land. This is understandable, because the indigenous people will fight to the death for their country, and if the Russian will take in head to regain the Crimea, they will get a second Chechnya. It is understood by the authorities in Kiev and apparently, so do not obstruct the restoration of the Crimean Tatar community, which in the future can count on autonomy within Ukraine. If the Jewish people have a right to their homeland after two thousand years, and the Crimean Tatars have no less right to live in their homeland, especially since only fifty years after the deportation.

    In this aspect, Russia claims to the Crimea deprived not only logic, but also immoral by the very nature and can be considered only in terms of the aggressive policy of the empire, which is agonizing, unfortunately ever more shows fangs.


    06.02.06.
     
  2. Balancer

    Balancer Well-Known Member

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  3. Balancer

    Balancer Well-Known Member

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    Giulietto Chiesa conducts Italian fact-finding tour of Crimea

    // http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/05/100-of-italian-entrepreneurs-oppose.html
     
  4. VSilver

    VSilver New Member

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  5. Alik Bahshi

    Alik Bahshi Member

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    This article was written in 2006, long before the Russian annexation of the Crimea. Thus, I foresaw that Russia will attack the Crimea and Ukraine. It may be the next country to which Russia will attack will Kaszahstan because there too many Russian lives.
     
  6. Balancer

    Balancer Well-Known Member

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    Never. Kazakhstan was never Russian. And Russian there only 25%.

    But the main thing not in it. The main thing is that the Crimea wanted to join Russia. Kazakhstan doesn't want it.

    Russia joined Crimea only because has so solved his parliament and a referendum (dispute on legality of that and another — other history).
     
  7. Alik Bahshi

    Alik Bahshi Member

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    Referendum with "little green men"! To hang noodles on the ears? And it was so. They came to the Crimea, expelled the indigenous people - Crimean Tatars .. Literally forced inhabited Crimea Russian peasants. Then, when the Soviet government in 1944, deported to the remnants of the indigenous population. Since 1944, almost entirely Russian population of Crimea. And today, after the new Russian annexation of the Crimea hold a referendum on joining the Crimea to Russia. The same occurs in the eastern part of Ukraine, which was a large Russian population, after the genocide of the Ukrainian people as a result of famine. That is, working simple scheme: captured territory, expelled the indigenous population, then this area is populated by Russian and then held a referendum on joining Russia. This fate awaits and Moldova, from which the Russian left-bank part of it torn away - Transnistria. This question is discussed in more detail here in the forum in the article "constituent peoples and Putin his Fuhrer, or Ukraine, and the list goes on." http://www.politicalforum.com/russi...ent-peoples-its-fuhrer-ukraine-list-goes.html
     
  8. General Winter

    General Winter Active Member

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    "Russia, on the other hand, is truly progressive by comparison with the East. Russian rule, for all its infamy, all its Slavic dirtiness, is civilising for the Black and Caspian Seas and Central Asia, for the Bashkirs and Tatars; and Russia has absorbed far more cultural elements, and especially industrial elements than Poland, which by nature is chivalrously indolent..". - Engels.

    Well known Soviet historian academic E. Tarle wrote : "Think,is it progress or regress in the fact that the Caucasian tribes now live under Soviet Constitution, not under a theocracy of Shamil, one of the most simplistic and regressive, the most barbaric form of despotism"

    So saying after classics, Russian Imperia, USSR, modern Russian Federation have the same civilising policy towards minorities.

    And some more of Engels:

    "...according to their old policy of cutting up central Europe into a set of small states quarrelling with each other, and thus leaving England to apply to them the principle "Divide and conquer".

    What has changed since then ? Replase England by the US and see that nothing,the same policy of "Divide and conquer" .

    "The policy of the revolutionary party in all countries has, on the contrary, always been to strongly unite the great nationalities hitherto cut up in small states, and to ensure independence and power, not to those small wrecks of nationalities but to the large and healthy nationalities now oppressed by the ruling European system."

    So the situation is the following : all the assorted rabble of reactionaries, nationalists, fascists supported by the main imperialist power relies on the fragmentation of the peoples with the aim of creating at the place of Russia and the USSR a dozen of helpless states. Anti-fascist anti-imperialist forces now set reunification over against fragmentation. Reunification is in the interest of the working people and of all democratic elements.That's why the integration of territories of former Ukraine into the Russian Federation is undoubtedly progressive.

    Reunification against fragmentation - this is the most progressive,most democratic and the most class slogan of the now time.
     
    kazenatsu likes this.
  9. Alik Bahshi

    Alik Bahshi Member

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    I recalled what Marx called Russian prison of nations. You're right, Stalin and Hitler were also against the fragmentation of states and nations.
     
  10. RUS

    RUS Member

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    Poroshenko and his campaign against the fragmentation... against the federalization of Ukraine (the US example).

    Ukraine - prison of nations.:wink:
     
  11. RUS

    RUS Member

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    1....In Kiev, there was a coup d'etat.
    (*)2....The rebels toppled President Yanukovych.
    3....Crimean residents (the majority) do not obey the rebels.

    What is not clear to you? ask a question, please.:smile:
     
  12. VSilver

    VSilver New Member

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    It is against facts.

    Facts are:
    Russian troops assaulted Ukrainian military objects and killed ukrainian servicemen.
    Ukraine was threatened with Russian Army's invasion on the North and East, so Ukrainians didn't resist in Crimea.

    The referendum had been organized just AFTER occupation by Russian troops.
    Some Crimeas people welcomed invaders, but it's typical, we remember people had greeted nazi-occupants once.

    Russia was the guarantor of Ukrainian sovereignty by Budapest Memorandum, and Russia violated it.

    Russia behaves after German-1938 with its past annexation and oppressing

    And now, Russia oppresses Crimea minority. Tatars are banned in their rights of ethnic rallies, they are kidnapped and murdered.
     
  13. Alik Bahshi

    Alik Bahshi Member

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    Sorry, but cares Russia to what is happening in Ukraine. Ukrainians removed corrupt Yanukovych. In addition, President Yanukovych was against the will of the Ukrainian people to join the EU.
    With regard to the Crimea, then the area is not the Russian land. There came Russian expelled the local population of the Crimean Tatars, and then held a referendum on accession to Russia. These are historical facts.
     
  14. RUS

    RUS Member

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    Excuse me, but...
    "Ukrainians removed corrupt Yanukovych." ..... - this is called a coup (the insurgency).
    ,

    [video=youtube;wUH3dJdZbJc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUH3dJdZbJc[/video]


    /

    Crimea residents did not support the coup in Kiev. Crimea residents opposed the rebellion. Against the rebels (state criminals).
    It is their sovereign right. :oldman://
    Can you challenge this?
     
  15. VSilver

    VSilver New Member

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  16. Alik Bahshi

    Alik Bahshi Member

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    Well, let's say a revolution, but what do Russian before the coup, in another rebellion? What is due to the fact that there was a revolution is necessary to introduce Russian troops in Ukraine? Introduced Russian soldiers on the territory of Ukraine, in the Crimea and Donbas. If the Russian, who live in Ukraine and do not want change in government, it does not give them the right to secede territory where they live most of the territory and accession to Russia.
    (*)(*)Chechens wanted to secede from Russia, and they have a right to do so, because they live in their native land, and the Crimea and Donbas is not a native Russian land. Russian army entered and poured blood Chechnya for the Chechen people wanted freedom.
     
  17. RUS

    RUS Member

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    Please give advice.. What they ( Crimean residents (citizens of Ukraine) - should have done in that situation?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Chechens began to fight.:machinegun:
     
  18. RUS

    RUS Member

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    This happened after the referendum.

    .
    [video=youtube;ydGE8TN0MQA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydGE8TN0MQA[/video]

    This happened after the Crimea back to Russia.

    (Russian killed no one)
     
  19. RUS

    RUS Member

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    Excuse me.
    In Simferopol, a Ukrainian soldier was killed. Apparently, he had an active resistance.

    Dans la guerre comme à la guerre.
     
  20. VSilver

    VSilver New Member

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    Ukraine officer 'killed in attack on Crimea base'
    Russian soldier kills Ukraine navy officer in Crimea

    Russian assault was before Referendum, it`s strong fact. And it is violation against Budapest Memorandum.
    And there was no one monitoring group for Referendum - results have no influence.

    Russian troops outside their temporal bases in Crimea, which is against Agreements. Troops assaulted Ukrainian institutes before Referendum
    [​IMG]

    And this was after nazi Annexation.
    [​IMG]
    Some people welcome every occupant, it`s common and for Russian occupant.
     
  21. Alik Bahshi

    Alik Bahshi Member

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    Among the Ukrainians, too, were supporting Yanukovych, but that does not mean that they were in favor of accession of Ukraine to Russia, as did the Russian living in Ukraine.
    (*) With regard to Chechnya, they were forced to fight for their freedom, after the Russian soldiers on the tanks entered Grozny.
     
  22. Alik Bahshi

    Alik Bahshi Member

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    It seems to me you do not know what green men appeared in the Crimea before the referendum. In addition, you do not zadumuvalis why they are called green men? They were with guns in military uniforms and with no signs of belonging to any army, but spoke Russian. How do you think who it was? Why they hid their affiliation to which army they relate? I think that you will not have to answer this question.

    (*)(*)With the advent of green men in the Crimea, there were cases of disappearances and strange death. Moreover the known leaders of the Crimean Tatars had to leave their homeland.
     
  23. RUS

    RUS Member

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  24. RUS

    RUS Member

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    I always answer.
    You did not answer my question.
    To fight? Like the сhechens?
     
  25. VSilver

    VSilver New Member

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    Yes, but Russia ratified annexation only 21 of March.

    Russian Troops killed Ukrainians before formal Annexation.

    And there`s a lot evidences, that Russian Troops had invaded Crimea before the voting, little green men had invaded in February 2014, and a half month later there was Referendum
     

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