Crazier high than combat?

Whether you're a 64 pilot throwing down fire for your guys on the ground, a .50 gunner on a ship, an A10 pilot, an Airborne Ranger, a forward observer, or just a grunt dodging rounds while digging into your OP. Did you ever come home and think "Ok maybe I'll see if I can hop on one more deployment just to get one more battle in.."?

 

To address the question. I've deployed, but I was never in combat. Combat meaning firing some sort of weapon at another human being.

You should see the Hurt Locker if you haven't already. It explores this issue, being addicted to war. Granted this is a work of fiction, but the main character of the story returns home and finds the mundane day to day things in civilian life, like going down a cereal aisle at a grocery store trying to pick a brand, to be unbearably dull in comparison to deploying for war. He eventually returns to it.

 

Not me, America has a awful habit sending Marines to either some hot, humid and stinking jungle or some 30 degrees below zero hell hole or some 120 degrees desert.

 

Thank you. Just googled the movie. Looks good.

I ask because direct fire is the most intense rush. Then when you have no such rush, you dwell in the past moments you did.

 

For me I'd say it's more the feeling that you need to be with the guys you've fought with, than any desire to be in combat. When they're over there risking their life and you're sitting on a couch with your family, you feel extremely guilty.

 

Killing another person is unnatural for a human being. Basically someone you've never met, hold no personal grudge against other than perhaps they wear a different uniform...are trying to kill one another. It's quite insane on it's surface, yet we humans do have a propensity to repeat the madness.

It took time to train and desensitize yourself to this in order to do your job as a combat soldier. It will take time to train and recondition yourself to the more natural state as a civilian away from a combat zone.

I suggest moving forward and allow the war experiences to recede.

In terms of seeking an adrenaline rush, you could buy a motorcycle. I understand many combat veterans have found riding a comparably focused endeavor.

 

I'm actually not feeling totally like this. I mean, combat is a rush for sure, but I was just curious how others feel about it.

 

Ok, then apologies. I had assumed you were speaking anecdotally.

Movies and video games tend to glamorize the experience.

We're approaching a Century since World War I was fought. I have read a few books on this...dear God, what those men went through. Absolute hellish environment fighting a trench warfare...I cannot imagine a single one of those young men who were lucky to have returned unscathed would desire to go through it again.

I deployed from August 1990 to March 1991 (Desert Shield/Storm) I was combat support and I literally kissed the tarmac when I landed state side. Thank God it's over was really my only thought. I knew my parents were worried and that was my main focus.

 

Never been in the military myself but I've known a lot of guys who were, through myself and through my sons. Only one who saw significant ground combat ever wanted to go back. For reasons we'll never know, he loved being in Vietnam. More recently, my son had a band mate who was in Bahrain in air traffic control. He chose not to go back despite being offered a pretty big 'signing bonus' or whatever you boys call it. 10 days later he was dead on his brand new Harley Sportster.

 

Interesting. Right now our Army has more people that want to stay in than ever before. AR restrictions are tighter than ever. Meaning, more people who saw a deployment, want to re-enlist. It was SO tough for me to get back in. PS business rules for anyone ETS+6 months are no joke.

 

OIF was a tough one. Essentially spending even off-nights hunkered down away from indirect fire. However, I was talking to an old friend from my unit and said "dang, we miss it don't we" lol

 

There's the Guard and Reserves to consider if reenlisting in the regular Army is difficult.

 

Yea PS business rules are much easier to stack in the Guard. However, my re-enlistment in the RA broke open and I slotted in a single day! Really lucky this time. It's a 3 year with desired post added 5 year guard with AGR most likely- due to my MOS.

 

I was Air Force, but I glanced at the prior service business rules for the Army, my head is swimming.
So the bottom line appears to be how critical the MOS is as it relates to the needs of the Army.

It's a done deal, you've reenlisted?

 

Yea air assault qual is what saved me. Wouldn't have been able to resign if I wasn't qualified. Also they waived my previous injuries while in service so it made it really easy. From what I'm hearing, I got VERY lucky. Currently in between training cycles now. I'm a holdover until the next one begins.

 

I suppose if you're single it's ok.

Deciding to re-enlist is as life-changing as joining the military. I hope you have thought it through.

I've known many who regret leaving because they didn't have anything lined up outside in the civilian world. I don't know many who have said they miss combat.

A quote in Black Hawk Down is that you fight for the guy next to you. Maybe you missed the camaraderie. Either way I suppose a thank you is in order, and I mean that sincerely. For every young man or woman who voluntarily steps up to serve, regardless of their occupation, it means someone who doesn't want to, doesn't have to. I am against a military draft, but to make the all-voluntary services work; someone has to step up. For that, you have my sincere gratitude...and I hope you don't experience combat again...nothing personal, I just pray for peace, not for war.

 

I suppose some might get a rush while engaged in a low intensity firefight or combat but he doesn't get a rush in high intensity combat when your buddy's brain matter is being cooked on your rifle barrel.

The last high intensity war America fought was over 43 years ago.

There are a few who like being in the (*)(*)(*)(*) while there are more than a few who just no longer give a (*)(*)(*)(*) after being in-country for six months and knowing he still has another six months before he boards that freedom bird.

 

The average infantryman in the South Pacific during World War II saw about 40 days of combat in four years.

The average infantryman in Vietnam saw about 240 days of combat in one year.

The difference?

The helicopter meant mobility.

 

Well thank you my friend. I have thought it through. In fact, intel is my 20 year plan both DoD and back in the government contracting world. Also will miss the infantry dearly. Won't miss the actual grunt work, cleaning everything in sight, mowing the grass for no reason..etc, but miss the brotherhood the infantry has.

 

Yes, I've seen soldiers and Marines raking sand in the middle of the desert, ordered to do so to stay busy.

 

Had nothing to do with the helicopter. Charley didn't have any helicopters south of the 17th parallel. Helicopters weren't really involved at Khe Sahn or the battle for Hue. Even the army's force to reinforce the Marines at Khe Sahn came by APC and trucks not helicopters.
Helicopters require a secured LZ. Hot LZ aren't fun and you wished you were back home.

When the Army's Air Cav was properly used like horse cavalry a very effective blocking force could quickly be established but to many field commanders didn't know how to properly use the Air Cav. But when properly used, the Air Cav was very effective.

The war in the Pacific during WW ll, Marine and army units would spend six months to a year training for just one amphibious assault campaign. After the battle they would pull back and start training for the next campaign.

Those original Marines or the 1st Mar Div. who landed on Guadalcanal in August of 1942 would go on participating in two more campaigns .

Those Marines who enlisted in 1943 would usually participate in two campaigns while those who enlisted in 1944 usually only participated in one campaign, most likely either Iwo Jima or Okinawa.

The war in the Pacific was a high intensity war, a very bloody war where the entire Pacific was one big free fire zone. By August 13, 1942 after the Goettge Patrol, the unofficial rule was no Japanese prisoners would be taken by U.S. Marines during battle. Both sides had a policy of not taking prisoners.

Kinda like in South Vietnam during the Vietnam War, being captured or surrendering wasn't an option. Kill or be killed.

 

We'll agree to disagree...however exposure to increased combat had everything to do with air mobility.

You may be experienced in combat, which I am not...but I know logistics...far more than you do.

You're simply wrong in this instance.

The Huey helicopter changed the face of war for the infantryman, it translated to more exposure to combat for them. They could move soldiers up to 300 miles a day, compared to 10 to 12 miles on the ground.

Helicopter crew deaths alone accounted for 10% of ALL Vietnam deaths.

In World War 2 the biggest issue was just getting the soldiers to the battle.

 

I think the 'rush' has to do with the massive adrenaline surge along with the immense focus one must have in such a life threatening situation. I have never been in combat but I can imagine that such an experience would make lots of new neural connections in the brain that become part of one's subconscious that rise into consciousness in significantly less threatening environments. One's response to less threatening situations cannot be the same as in mortal combat and, I can imagine the draw to get back into combat. Veterans really need to be honored. What they go through for our country is, IMO, the highest moral calling.

 

Just about all ground combat units were assigned a TAOR. Most of your movement was by foot. Helicopters were used at the beginning of large operation and for resupplying the troops who were in the bush. If your unit's TAOR was being changed maybe 100 miles to the north, sometimes it was by helicopter, fix wing aircraft or by truck or even by sea.

But when I arrived in-country I was surprised how slow we moved. I thought we would be moving at route step like back at Camp Pendleton.

A grunt with a full field marching pack can travel 3.5 miles per hour, 25 miles per day is expected. It's why they are called grunts, they grunt a lot.

I remember we were suppose to set up an OP on top of this mountain. It was a NGF spot team, Arty FO team and a FAC team along with a rifle platoon for security and defense.

We were transported by CH-46's but were dropped off six miles away from the mountain. I looked at that mountain knowing we had to climb that freaking mountain and asking why didn't these choppers just drop us off on top of the mountain. The reason was if the helicopters did drop us off on top the mountain Charley would know we were there and the NVA had no problem with sending an entire infantry battalion to eliminate one OP.

When I was a FNG I was always asking questions. I participated in the last two amphibious assaults conducted in Vietnam. The objective was a Main Force VC battalion in the ROK Marines Blue Dragons TAOR. I was TAD to a Marine rifle battalion and were reclassified as a BLT (Battalion Landing Team) It consisted of 1X Marine rifle battalion, 1X battery of 105 mm howitzers, 5X M-48 tanks, 5X ONTOS and a platoon from each service support units.

We boarded CH-46's that took us off the I Corps area at sea and sailed around in a big circle for a few days on an LPH and there was also a LSD and LPD.

I was able to understand that Charley was wondering where did that Marine battalion go ? But it was explained to me it had more to do than just surprise, when it comes to logistics it was easier to resupply from the sea using helicopters instead of truck convoys going through indian country.

The three Marine rifle companies came ashore on CH-46's landing maybe a mile west of the beach. All of the support units, artillery, tanks, ONTOS, etc. came ashore by Mike boats.

On our right flank the Army's Americal Division set up a blocking force.(The Americal Div. TAOR was just north of the ROK Marines TAOR) To the west maybe 12 miles from the beach the ROK Marines set up a blocking force. On our left flank was a river that Navy PBR's provided a blocking force. Charley was trapped and had nowhere to go.

Is that just the Army or both the Army and Marines ?

Looking at U.S. Marines casualties;

Marine helicopter pilots killed was 104 at 0.7% of all casualties.
Helicopter crew 241 enlisted and 94 officers at 2.3% of all casualties.
Helicopter non-crew casualties 228 enlisted and 33 officers at 1.8% of all casualties.

But then again, Marine combat tactics are different from Army combat tactics.

 

I should qualify my original statement. The area of combat in Vietnam was much smaller as compared to the Pacific and European theaters. Certainly this accounts for probably the primary reason combat exposure was 6 x that of what the average infantryman in WW2 experienced.

However, merely to get to the theaters of war in WW2 required months of travel by ship.

Once an infantryman was in country in Vietnam, combat was literally a helicopter ride away. Even without air mobility, exposure would be higher. The guerilla type tactics also meant no distinct frontlines, so yes air mobility by itself did not increase exposure, however it was a contributing factor because of the large increase in mobility compared to surface transportation.


Vietnam war statistics.

http://www.mrfa.org/vnstats.htm

Helicopter crew deaths accounted for 10% of ALL Vietnam deaths. Helicopter losses during Lam Son 719 (a mere two months) accounted for 10% of all helicopter losses from 1961-1975.