U.S. Tanks Fail To Place in NATO Tank Competition

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]https://youtu.be/wvLpQiaKIYw[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]You have got to be kidding me? The Abrams is an awesome machine. The only reason this could possibly happen is a lack of training due to financial constraints.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The challenge featured seven tank platoons in total. Denmark, Germany, Italy, Slovenia and Poland all competed with one platoon, while the United States sent two. Each platoon included four tanks manned by four men. Germany took the gold in its Leopard 2A6 tanks, while the U.S. Army in the M1A2 Abrams didn’t place.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The original source w/lots of links @ http://warnewsupdates.blogspot.com/2016/05/us-tanks-fail-to-place-in-nato-tank.html[/FONT]

 

A comment in the link that I just couldn't resist:

I'll bet Obama's tank crews were the most diverse and politically correct.

 

Not surprising. US doctrine after the Cold War has really been missing in the Armor sector since the lack of opponents besides Urban ones. In fact, the US Army is not requesting more tanks despite Congress wanting more.
From Wealth Daily.

The victors were Poland, Denmark and Germany was number 1. They all use the German Leopard 2 series. Which has a bigger than the Abrams capable of striking targets at longer ranges and and has more faster velocity for the same round meaning more piercing power. Also they can fire anti-tank missiles from their barrels.

 

My guess would be the US crews were enjoying the german beer more than they were worried about winning a tank competition.

 

I'm not guessing, I'm pretty sure the American tank crews were spending more time attending Obama's mandatory PC diversity and sensitivity classes instead of training for war.

 

Germany is more PC than USA.

German units are pretty underfunded. I remember one time they trained with broomsticks as rifles and machineguns. Either way the quality of German tanks(used by Denmark and Poland) are better known to be better than USA's Abrams.

 

I don't know why you call them "Obama's mandatory PC classes". I served under Bush and we had the same classes then.

 

You're referring to Clinton's mandatory PC classes that Bush inherited.

 

No. Some of them were created under Bush. I didn't start Suicide Prevention classes until 2005.

 

Well I suppose those suicide prevention classes you were required to take worked.

I was just looking at the suicide rate for the Marine Corps for those Marines who were "in-country" and or in SEA theatre of war from 1965 to 1973.

21 enlisted
2 officers

I'm sure there were more than a few back in the CONUS or at Gitmo.

There have always been suicides in the military during wartime and peacetime. Usually someone who slipped between the cracks and made it through basic. Basic training is just not to prepare you for the horrors of war but also the military lifestyle. Most of the times the DI or drill sergeant will catch the guy who's just not going to be able to adopt to the military and he's sent packing.

Has there been an increase of suicides in the military over the past few decades ? It may lead back to social engineering of the military. All of the dumbing down we have seen of basic training over the past four decades is a direct result of social engineering and political correctness. The military today advertise that they are an "equal opportunity employer."

It's not a freaking job, it's duty to country and it's a very deadly business just not during war time but also during peace time. That 's what these liberal PC activist don't understand.

In 2007 the year with the highest casualties during the Iraq war there were 1,953 deaths in the U.S. military. What war was Reagan fighting during his first year in the White House in 1981? There were 2,380 deaths in the U.S. military. Zero from hostile action.

During President Clinton's eight years in the White House, 7,592 deaths in the U.S. military. Did we hear the left chanting "Hey hey hey Willie, how many did you kill today ? "

Every time the U.S. military has been used for social engineering soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen bleed and die in the name of PC social engineering.

 

Like when Truman launched his social engineering integrating units by race?

 

You are sounding like you have Truman syndrome.

I just answered youre question on another thread.

 

So if you were in charge, the military would have remained segregated?

 

The biennial Sullivan Cup is awarded to the best U.S. tank crew and this year went to a unit from the North Carolina Army National Guard. Basically an insurance adjuster, student, plumber and couple other folks defeated regular Army active duty tank crews who do it for a living.

 

I would have left the decision up to the military brass, (*)(*)(*)(*) I was only a sergeant when I served with only 13 months of combat experience and a few years of active duty under my belt, Basically a "citizen soldier" not a "lifer."

 

When the Air Force would hold these competitions between other NATO air forces one event civilians could watch was the strafing competition that took place near Indian Springs AFS just off Hwy 95. You were able to park off the side of Hwy 95 and watch all of the different aircraft, This was during the 1980's. The results were alway reported in the local Las Vegas newspapers.

I watched three of them over the years.

The first two competitions I watched it was either Air Force Reserve or ANG who won the event flying A-7's. Beating out F-16's, F-15's F-4's and the European made fighters flown by the other NATO countries.

The last one I watched the A-10's were flying but it was a Canadian Air Force who won the event. Forget what they were flying.

I do remember the A-10, first you heard the rounds hitting the ground that sounded like explosions then immediately followed by that ripping sound from the A-10 guns. Because of the speed of sound you heard the rounds hitting the ground before the A-10 firing it's gun.

As for the target, it was big white sheets hanged between telephone like poles. I don't know how they could have counted the holes on the target, the A-10 guns just completely ripped up the targets. One target was cut completely in half.

 

And when the brass are a bunch of old conservative white men and refuse to let any minorities in their mix, you would allow them to perpetuate their bigotry?

 

Can we get back to the basics of this?

Our regular army troops are spread rather thin at the moment and there are limited resources based upon priorities.



Other than a brigade from the 4th and 3rd Infantry Divisions, most of the rest are support units. That means those left in Europe don't get a lot of time in the field or in livefire exercises. It also means the equipment left there is not the best-equipped or maintained. As good as our guys and gals are, it's difficult to operate at maximum efficiency when one doesn't get the hot seat time.

With current budget restrictions, ALL of our units are operating well below readiness levels. According to this Army Times article, Army readiness at 'historically low levels' @ http://www.armytimes.com/story/mili...5/03/11/army-leaders-testify-budget/70174114/

In addition, the Army also has:
• Used its wartime reset program to reduce depot maintenance by $3.2 billion.
• Reduced its reliance on contractors for logistics support, saving nearly $2 billion.
• Identified and will save more than $12 billion through its aviation restructuring initiative.
• Eliminated 12,000 positions by reducing all of its two-star and higher headquarters by 25 percent.
• Reorganized its brigade combat teams to eliminate overhead and maximize combat capacity.
The Army has soldiers in engaged in Afghanistan, Iraq, Jordan, Kosovo and across Africa, Odierno said.
It also has rotational forces in Europe, Kuwait and throughout the Pacific.

The sad thing about this is that it's not just a matter of being combat ready, these lacks increase the risk of our men and women in uniform not being able to survive combat situations. In other words, greedy, self-centered politicians are putting targets on their breasts.

So, what does that put in your bonnet? n

 

Air mobility had biennial competitions, called "Rodeos" and the first two I was eligible for were won by West Germany and Australia. The U.S. dominated after that, I think the 2015 event was canceled because of budget constraints. I attended as an umpire in a couple of these. Basically, I was one out of about 380 umpires scoring teams in events like aeromedical evacuation, low level navigation, short field landings, air drops and physical fitness. It wasn't particularly glamorous. To locate hotspots on the runway to score on a landing event, as an example, meant kneeling down and feeling for melted rubber.

 

When was the last time America actually won a war where the enemy surrendered ?

 

Last night I was reading, while we were still fighting in Vietnam, Congress was alarmed that we only had 300,000 troops in Germany in 1971.

 

The Abrams is an old tank.
NATO tanks don't come any older.

But British tanks lose these competitions too. Our general said... competitions are not war.
And he was right. The tank did fine in battle. As has the Abrams.

I can't see why so many posts in here blame the training and none the vehicle. No one would expect it to win against modern tanks in a game of top trumps.

 

The Army is also depleted, in part, from fighting 13 years of ground centric wars more recently.

 

Have you ever heard of Operation Big Lift ? It was in 1963 when the Air Force transported an entire Army division by air from the CONUS to Europe in just 64 hours !!!

I bet that caused the Russkies to soil their diapers.


Exercise Big Lift - 1963
[video]https://youtu.be/3qVzwlXISZg[/video]

 

Could you explain further exactly what a "hot spot" is ? Is it a bad thing ?