An intellectual Europeans view of the 50 year Israeli occupation of the West bank

When the USA occupied Iraq from 2003 to 2011, did an Iraqi need to ask permission to build a house for his newly married son? When Russia occupied Afghanistan, did an Afghani have to do likewise? No.

So why does a Palestinian have to ask the permission of a foreign country to build a house in his own country?

The last time I saw something like that was in my own country, South Africa, under the racist Afrikaner Apartheid regime, who also believe that God had given them the whole area, including their Bantustans. Indeed the West Bank has become a Bantustan to the racist apartheid-implementing Israel..

Conclusion: Somehow Israel is special, and international laws do not apply to it.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2016/07/01/inenglish/1467370265_186015.html

 

Amazing......

 

Israel is a scofflaw rogue state protected by the USA from answering to international law.

 

The only place called Israel is the land defined as such in 1948. Go back to those borders.

 

Oh yeah... the Gatestone Institute! No bias here, then...LOL

The Gatestone Institute is a New York-based advocacy organization that is tied to neoconservative and other right-wing networks in the United States and Europe.[1] Chaired by John Bolton, a former Bush administration diplomat and a conservative foreign policy hardliner, Gatestone is a clearinghouse for right-wing commentaries on national security, the Middle East, and Islam, as well as a convener of high-dollar events on security and energy issues. It is an offshoot of the neoconservative Hudson Institute.

The institute was founded in 2011 by Nina Rosenwald, an heiress of the Sears Roebuck empire who has been a key philanthropic backer of anti-Muslim groups and individuals in the United States. Describing Gatestone’s origins, journalist Max Blumenthal writes: “Through her affiliation with the Washington-based Hudson Institute, where Norman Podhoretz is an adjunct fellow, Rosenwald established a branch of the think tank in New York City. Operating under the Hudson banner, Rosenwald brought [the controversial anti-Islam Dutch politician Geert Wilders] to town in 2008 to warn against the Muslim plot to ‘rule the world by the sword.’ Wilders’s tirade during that visit against the prophet Muhammad, whom he described as ‘a warlord, a mass murderer, a pedophile,’ was strident even by the standards of the hawkish Hudson Institute. By 2011 … Rosenwald separated Hudson New York City from Hudson’s national branch, changing her organization’s name to the Gatestone Institute.”[2]

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/gatestone_institute/

 

At least we have an honest Canadian Arab to show you the way...
What is the matter, right wing left wing or whatever... That man seems to know his history .

 

Not possible Im afraid, they should have accepted those borders in 1948, they didnt and we had to defend ourselves till 1967 war and then again till 1988 where they did recognize Israel, alas time did not freeze for decades till they did and reality today is not the same as it was in 1948, we call it "progress", we can discuss new terms but not what was true 70 years ago.

 

The WB and the Pal-Isra dispute are indeed unique, its not yet a country and the area is disputed, was is annexed to Israel and the Pal had less rights - you'd be right, but as you wel know the area is divided to areas A, B and C with diffrent laws in each. Israel is not special, the dispute is.

 

You are my best evidence, HB.
Gatestone as a reliable source!!!! Oh please.
Gatestone is the most notable and most virulent newcomer Islamophobic think tank in America, which of course means in the World.
"Non-partial" it claims of itself .... OMG, what a brazen blatant easily demonstrated lie.

Here are two of its most laughable items, .... and guess what .... my 12 year old grand daughter found them for me. It took her less that 30 seconds.

# "Spain: Soon the Muslims Will Be the Kings of the World". ............ LMAO
# ""Islam is a French religion and the French language is a language of Islam." OMG that is just sooooooo baaaadddd. HB .... pleeeeease. You need to read some proper factual books. I thought you were an educator.

Mega FAIL, HB ......... really MEGA

By the way, HB, your post is in addition an obvious deflection from addressing the OP
Gatestone .... Wha-wha-wha-wha. As I wrote .... what a splendid piece of evidence in support of the OP.

- - - Updated - - -

So where are Israel's borders Gilos.

You disappoint me.

 

It is a country, Gilos. The U.N. recognised it explicitly as such in the granting of observer status.

A, B and C are derived from Oslo. Bibi admitted that he sank that. So why quote it. Israel has violated it literally thousands of times. So why quote it as if it were valid.

Again, you sadly disappoint me, Gilos. Sorry that I have to say this. I thought matters regarding respect for verifiable historical fact were improving.

Regards, Klipkap

 

Gatestone is very much in favor of theft.

 

Fred Maroun, the man that wrote the article that is shown in Gatestone website, which HBendor provided here, is a Canadian Arab that lived in Lebanon until the 80's that supports Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, and he supports a liberal and democratic Middle East where all religions and nationalities, can co-exist in peace with each other and with Israel, and where human rights are respected. As you can read for yourselves:

Source: http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/author/fred-maroun/

Do you klipklap and Margot2 are disagreeing with him? Do you both think that the Middle East cant be a liberal and democratic area where al religions and nationalities can co-exist in peace with each other and with Israel? if you do support, then why you against Maroun's articles?

Borders in the West Bank? There isn't any and will not and could not be any in the future, as Rhodes Agreements from 1949 explained, when it was written there that the Armistic Lines of 1948 (the '67 borders if you like) cannot be in any way a political nor diplomatic bounderies. That was the conclusion of the drafters of Resolution 242 as well, when they explained why they agreed on writting that Israel must withdraw from territories they occupied douring the war, and not from all territories. As Lord Cardon said to a Lebanese newspaper, the Beirut Daily Star, on June 12, 1974:

Source: http://www.acpr.org.il/pp/pp173-grief-E.pdf

 

I also like to deal in facts.

Fact: Israel exists as nation and has every right to defend itself.
Fact: The West Bank and Golan are under belligerent military occupation, as such military law applies.
Fact: Israel zionists have been slowly but steadily implementing their vision of Israel from river to sea since capturing Jordanian Syrian and Egyptian territory.
Fact: The arab nations have been consistently belligerent and until fairly recently refused to even deal directly with the hated "land thieves".
Fact: Both sides have not bargained in good faith for peace
Fact: Palestinian political leadership has consistently proven to be corrupt and inept.
Fact: Palestinian refugees are uniquely multi-generational, hence the enormous number of same who have never even seen Palestine.

IMO, there will be no resolution of this generational conflict until both sides decide that their non-negotiables are in fact negotiable and can build some level of trust between them.
All this whinging about what happened in the past might be an interesting intellectual past time, but does nothing to advance resolution. If anything it serves to maintain the festering of old wounds.

 

Are you saying Oslo accords are no longer in effect ?

 

To the East we have a border with Jordan and within the WB - according to Oslo, that's the best we got at this time.

 

One need only look at the Parasitic & Genocidal nature of Israel's Government along with the list of U.N. Resolutions Israel has violated with impunity to see that your Conclusion is accurate:

The question remains, how does Israel get away with acts of unprovoked aggression, outright Genocide, a Rogue Nuclear Arsenal, countless violations of International Law & not only escape significant consequences but manage to extort countless $ Billions from other Nations in the form of blood, weaponry & Cash.


1. High on the list of answers to: "How do they get away with it?" is Nuclear Threats & Blackmail. [1], [2]

The following is just one instance in which Israel has used its nuclear arsenal as a threat in which to extort U.S. Arms & Aid:

EXCERPT " However, in 1973's Yom Kippur War Israel was almost overwhelmed by Arab forces.(*) Prime Minister Golda Meir authorized a nuclear alert, ordering 13 atomic bombs be prepared for missiles and aircraft. Israeli Ambassador to the U.S. Simha Dinitz threatened “very serious conclusions" if there was not an immediate airlift of supplies.(*) This forced U.S. President Richard Nixon to make emergency airlifts of state of the art military supplies to Israel." [1]

Additional examples of how Israel uses its Nuclear Arsenal simply to make threats, escape Justice & legitimate sanctions & extort $ Billions yearly are explained in the entire source cited below [1]


2. Holocaust® Pity Mongering.

What has come to be marketed, worldwide as "The Holocaust®" is not just a $ multi-Billion extortion racket against Germany that generates $ Millions in tourism & countless $ Billions in relentless "Reparations" but is kept alive as a rhetorical cudgel repeatedly used against neighboring States & their leaders; notably Iraq & Iran both of which have been accused by Israeli leaders as orchestrating "another Holocaust®" for simply resisting Zionist Regional Hegemony.

3. Global Zionist Lobbies & their Army of Hasbara Shills

The degree to which old, influential, treacherous & malevolent Zionist Lobbies have bent British, American & other governments toward a self-destructive Zionist agenda is as old as it is legendary.

The “Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland” was able to get the British to abrogate their McMahon Agreement
honoring their promise to restore Palestine to the Arabs for their aid in fighting the Ottoman Empire in favor of giving part of Palestine to the Zionists.

More recently, the infamous Zionist lobby & Spy Nest, AIPAC, had enough influence to get the US Congress to fight another war for Israel against Iraq:

“QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.” AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. SUN JAN. ’03

Meanwhile, a significant 37% of Americans realize the extent of Israeli control over US Policymaking [4]

Because of the number of individuals at this Forum who exemplify Hasbara Hucksterism, little needs to be said of Israel's Army of paid, trained, full time network of apologists for blatant Israeli Government Genocide.

No other State has such an extensive, $multi-Billion network of paid, full time, State-sponsored Propagandists......

.......or so badly needs one.


The 3 factors above just begin to explain how the Expansionist, Genocidal, Nuclear terrorist State evades the enforcement of International law for its blatant & repulsive Crimes against Humanity








[1] “ISRAELI NUCLEAR THREATS AND BLACKMAIL”
“The Samson Option Still Threatens the World”
http://www.carolmoore.net/nuclearwar/israelithreats.html

EXCERPT “Originally a strategy of last resort retaliation - even if it means Israel’s annihilation - it has developed into being a nuclear bullying strategy to further Israel’s territorial goals through threats and blackmail.

Israel has bullied not only Arab and Muslim nations, but the United States and Russia with its Samson Option threats.(*)

Mordechai Vanunu has alleged that Israel uses for purposes of blackmail its ability to "bombard any city all over the world, and not only those in Europe but also those in the United States."[8]

In 1977, after a right-wing coalition under Menachen Begin took power, the Israelis began to use the Samson Option not just to deter attack but to allow Israel to “redraw the political map of the Middle East” by expanding hundreds of thousands of Israeli settlers into the West Bank and Gaza.[18]

Then-Minister of Defense Ariel Sharon said things like "We are much more important than (Americans) think. We can take the middle east with us whenever we go"[19] and "Arabs may have the oil, but we have the matches."[20](*)

He proclaimed his - and many Likud Party members' - goals of transforming Jordan into a Palestinian state and “transferring” all Palestinian refugees there.[21][22] (*)A practice known worldwide as "ethnic cleansing."CONTINUED



[2] "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother." I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.”
General Moshe Dayan
http://cunningrealist.blogspot.com/2009/07/dayans-mad-dog.html


[3] “The McMahon Agreement”
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/mcmahon.htm

EXCERPT “The McMahon-Hussein Agreement of October 1915 was accepted by Palestinians as a promise by the British that after World War One, land previously held by the Turks would be returned to the Arab nationals who lived in that land."CONTINUED


[4] “Poll Finds 37% Of Americans Believe Israel Has Too Much Influence Over US Politics”
http://www.mintpressnews.com/212419-2/212419/

 

It needs to be 73%... then, maybe, the US might change its policy.
On the other hand, dear Mr. Grau, it doesn't look as if the Americans are one iota more humane or one iota less greedy than the Zionists. They are bedfellows, they feed off each other. The world can only hope that one day they will get mad at each other and finish each other off. Then Canada and Russia will hold the balance of world power, with Angela Merkel keeping them focused on their exemplary benevolent leadership duties....

​

Oops, I just remember, you are an American Veteran... I really didn't mean to throw you in the same bucket as the rest.
Pardon me

 

Au 'contraire mon ami' the Arabs are the ones that are scofflaws since they occupy (JUDEA and SAMARIA) two sections of the land of ISRAEL.

And to the writers who are in accord with <occupied> I say the West Bank (JUDEA and SAMARIA) are occupied exactly as California is occupied by Latinos!!!

 

It is the sentiment of THIS American that the percentage of Americans who feel that Israeli lobbies have too much influence over U.S. Mid East Foreign Policy should be 100% but, America was & is as much infected by malevolent, manipulative & parasitic FOREIGN Zionist Gangs as was historic Palestine.

The book "Against our Better Judgment" outlines how parasitic World Zionist organizations targeted America as their "host" country because of its Superpower Status, wealth & ability to project power around the world.

If Canada had those abilities in the 1940s, it would currently be the country doing Israel's bidding today.


The article I cited: &#8220;Poll Finds 37% Of Americans Believe Israel Has Too Much Influence Over US Politics&#8221;
reflects a trend, not an isolated incident.
I've cited a few other articles that reinforce that through Independent Media & honest voices, Americans are finally rebelling against Zionist Rule [1], [2], [3], [4]


- Meanwhile, Re:

I certainly admit that the US Government is complicit with Zionist butchers, War Criminals as well as having committed many enormities driven by non-Zionist American Officials, Policy Makers etc.

However, I don't think that it's accurate to compare an entire nationality of hundreds of millions of people to a numerically small, Foreign based, Political / Ideological Gang.

It's like comparing a Canadian Political Party to the multi-million citizens of India


- As far as

I can't think of any scenario in which a nuclear exchange["....finish each other off...."] would remain isolated between the borders of just 2 countries and the Zionists have repeatedly said that they would "....take the World down with them...." in which case there would be no World for Canada & Russia to rule over in Peace & Prosperity.


- Re:

Just because I'm an American who served in one of America's least popular Wars doesn't mean that I'm offended by criticism of my country's malevolent actions at home & around the world.

However, by stating that:

You are clearly stating an unkind opinion that is discouraging to the millions of Americans who have been, for decades, trying to loosen the Zionist Stranglehold on our country.




[1] &#8220;Six in Ten Americans Say U.S. Gives &#8220;Too Much&#8221;&#8200;Aid to Israel&#8221;
http://www.wrmea.org/2014-november-...ns-say-u.s.-gives-too-much-aid-to-israel.html




[2] &#8220;IS AMERICAN PUBLIC ABOUT TO TOSS ISRAEL?&#8221;
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/11/12/is-american-public-about-to-toss-israel/
EXCERPT &#8220;Ever so slowly over the past two decades, and gaining momentum since the April 2002 Israeli destruction of the West Bank town of Jenin, American attitudes toward Israel appear to be changing according to some public opinion analysts.&#8221;CONTINUED




[3] &#8220;Latest Gallup poll shows young Americans overwhelmingly support Palestine&#8221;
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/n...ng-americans-overwhelmingly-support-palestine

EXCERPT &#8220;The public outpouring of support for Palestinians in US streets suggests that Washington's pro-Israel policies are becoming increasingly unpopular, a trend supported by a recent poll on Israel's latest aggression, which finds that young Americans are twice as likely to support Palestinian rights than Israeli occupation.
Tens of thousands of Americans held a demonstration in front of the White House in Washington, DC. Protestors travelled in buses from around the country to join the national rally, waving Palestinian flags and chanting "free Palestine" in the US capital.&#8221; CONTINUED


[4]&#8220;ISRAEL IS FACING A BACKLASH IN AMERICA&#8221;
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/Opinion...cing-a-backlash-in-america.ashx#axzz2xqdABbts

EXCERPTS &#8220;Yet powerful pro-Zionist groups....are suddenly finding themselves increasingly challenged in public. Consequently, their influence is slowly being reduced to a shrinking body of Americans that is primarily composed of politicians in Washington,

This new tendency to stand up to pro- Israel fanatics in the U.S. reflects expanding global moves by governments, labor unions and others to boycott Israeli government or private institutions colonizing and exploiting Palestinian lands and communities.

The simple but historic message I read in this trend is that traditional Zionist intimidation tactics are losing some of their effectiveness &#8211; other than against American presidential candidates, who will remain fully compliant with Zionist demands."CONTINUED

 

Oh, they are doing the bidding alright! Their former PM, Stephen Harper, was Israel's Puppet... listen here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2nG_5PZXQ0

Let's hope it is not too late already.

That's not exactly how I meant it. Just look at the Americans as one unit following and supporting their democratically elected government's actions of starting unprovoked wars, overthrowing governments and usually killing lots of people in the process. Destroying weaker countries and causing chaos, murder and grand theft looting. American companies follow the soldiers and exploit the conquered country.
Yet... the American people brag about their greatness and condemn other nations for defending themselves against a Zionist take-over... not realizing in their naivete that they themselves are being stripped and milked to the bone.

It doesn't have to be that drastic! They can finish each other in other ways... for instance a government overthrow; starting a revolution; assassinations. The kind of stuff they now do to other countries they could try on each other. It would perhaps already be enough to inflict some deep economic wounds to bring their cocky behavior a few notches down.

Dear Grau, my family, my homeland were and still are victims of your country's unprovoked attack and brutal murder in the millions. You know what I mean! And yet, I hold the one and only American I know who is genuinely sorry... YOU... in my embrace. With your honesty and kindness you are soothing old wounds and calming new resentments.

Forgive me for the harsh words spoken about your country. Understand, all I want is for the American people to come to their senses, to wake up! Life does not have to continue as before. Make a new, a better, a kinder beginning... please!

 

The big difference is it was never an occupation. Maybe on paper it appears that way but this was a conquering. The zionist have no intention of leaving where America was only there long enough to set up its puppet government. We want all the benefits of putting ExxonMobil in control of thier oil but not have to worry about running the day to day operations of herding the sheep.

 

Besides that if we stayed it would ruin the facade of we are the great liberator from tyranny

 

That is the beauty of being sovereign. You are above the law. The United States is not the only country protecting Isreal let's not forget who gave them the country to begin with. Lord Rothschild was handed Palestine after WWII by the throne of England for all the Rothschilds did for the crown via the east indies trading company and the federal reserve. They brought the US back under control of the crown, and help the crown conquer India, China, the Caribbean, and the east indies.

 

Hey Jazz, I am an American and you know how I feel. So you know 2 good people in America

 

I am not the least bit offended by the Truth & the Truth is that the US Government is responsible for some horrible crimes, atrocities against those in the U.S. and outside of the U.S.

For Example:



“The crime of making Americans aware of their own history”
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...-making-americans-aware-of-their-own-history/

Is history getting too close for comfort for the fragile little American heart and mind? Their schools and their favorite media have done an excellent job of keeping them ignorant of what their favorite country has done to the rest of the world, but lately some discomforting points of view have managed to find their way into this well-defended American consciousness.
Then came the Islamic cleric, Anwar al-Awlaki, an American citizen, who for some time had been blaming US foreign policy in the Middle East as the cause of anti-American hatred and terrorist acts. So we killed him. Ron Paul and Tony Bennett can count themselves lucky.
What, then, is the basis of all this? What has the United States actually been doing in the Middle East in the recent past?
• the shooting down of two Libyan planes in 1981
• the bombing of Lebanon in 1983 and 1984
• the bombing of Libya in 1986
• the bombing and sinking of an Iranian ship in 1987
• the shooting down of an Iranian passenger plane in 1988
• the shooting down of two more Libyan planes in 1989
• the massive bombing of the Iraqi people in 1991
• the continuing bombings and draconian sanctions against Iraq for the next 12 years
• the bombing of Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998
• the habitual support of Israel despite the routine devastation and torture it inflicts upon the Palestinian people
• the habitual condemnation of Palestinian resistance to this
• the abduction of “suspected terrorists” from Muslim countries, such as Malaysia, Pakistan, Lebanon and Albania, who were then taken to places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia, where they were tortured
• the large military and hi-tech presence in Islam’s holiest land, Saudi Arabia, and elsewhere in the Persian Gulf region
• the support of numerous undemocratic, authoritarian Middle East governments from the Shah of Iran to Mubarak of Egypt to the Saudi royal family
• the invasion, bombing and occupation of Afghanistan, 2001 to the present, and Iraq, 2003 to the present
• the bombings and continuous firing of missiles to assassinate individuals in Somalia, Yemen, Pakistan, and Libya during the period of 2006-2011

It can’t be repeated or emphasized enough. The biggest lie of the “war on terrorism”, although weakening, is that the targets of America’s attacks have an irrational hatred of the United States and its way of life, based on religious and cultural misunderstandings and envy. The large body of evidence to the contrary includes a 2004 report from the Defense Science Board, “a Federal advisory committee established to provide independent advice to the Secretary of Defense.”
The report states:
Muslims do not hate our freedom, but rather they hate our policies."CONTINUED



I've repeatedly cited the truths outlined above to people who do not understand the true causes of anti-American sentiment most of which were & remain driven by Zionist lobbies that have dragged the U.S. into the Mid East.

I am sympathetic to the plight of Germany because I lived there & witnessed a disturbing, prevalent feeling of shame by younger Germans who also had been repeatedly beaten with fraudulent notions of what has come to be known & crassly marketed as "The Holocaust®".

As just one American who has been treated with kindness & generosity around the World (except for the War in S.E. Asia), I can only apologize but so much for the crimes my country has committed & work to help change its for the better