Africans are not black

Discussion in 'Race Relations' started by Thanos36, Jul 1, 2016.

  1. Thanos36

    Thanos36 Member

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    First of all, this may sound like an absurd statement. But I challenge people who believe this shouldn't be the case. "Black" and "White" are not so much racial terms, but political terms. As the term "black" and "white" does not really allude to a biological reality, but more of a social reality. The term "black" is an American only term, and it was only meant to describe people of African descent who are the offsprings of freed slaves. It does and can only exist within the social context of the USA.


    Because many Americans have retroactively tried to amend this basically political classification in some historical and anthropological context, many have now deemed Africa as a "black continent". However this is not true as more than just dark skinned people have made their homes in Africa. And even historically not all of Africa have had people with darker skin.

    What this means is that in terms of who is actually black, only the descendants of a "freed" slave in the USA is actually black. This mean Afro-Latinos cannot also be considered black.


    You will notice that America is not at war with "blackness" as much as it's in war with "freed slaves". Notice that African immigrants do not necessarily report the same social marginalization that black people born in America receive. so this is a war on he culture of "black Americans" more so than it is a war against "Africanism".
     
  2. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    I'm thinking the average white "Nationalist"/Trump supporter/etc....

    doesn't really want EITHER a wealthy Nigerian fresh off the plane OR a guy whose great-great-grandfather was brought here on a boat.....

    marrying his daughter.
     
  3. Thanos36

    Thanos36 Member

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    Trust me he'd rather is daughter marry the rich Nigerian, before he'd be ok with his daughter marrying some guy from the streets of Detroit.
     
  4. Zorroaster

    Zorroaster Well-Known Member

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    White people are not really white. More a shade of light pink. Black people are not black, either.
     
  5. Thanos36

    Thanos36 Member

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    Again, these are political labels, and do not exist to be accurate depictions of what people are. The labels of "black" and "white" are tools of division and separation. Race just happens to be the means of doing that, but can be done by any arbitrary identifier.
     
  6. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    The concept of Blackness has not been uniquely applied to modern African-Americans. Since Europeans came in to contact with Africans they have noticed their skin color and used that as an identifier of an "other" group.

    You can go back to the text of the ancient Greeks who called dark-skinned Africans Ethiopians which meant "people of burnt face" to see that this physical trait was noticeable and used to identify dark-skinned people rather than by their language, culture or nationality. Other groups of people including from India and Australia have been called Black people in reference to their skin color by European colonists and Africans were called Black or Negro before they were enslaved and taken to America. In America how Blackness was defined and how so-called Black people were treated very much became political. But the concept of Blackness is beyond political. It is a observation of a physical trait that was given social meaning. Blackness has been used in a scientific, biological and anthropological context as well as a social and political context. People of African descent were called Black and other names referring to skin color before slavery, during slavery and after slavery.

    White Nationalists generally hate people of African descent and don't care how wealthy or intelligent they are nor do they give a damn for their personality no matter how positive.

    They hate Black people because they are "Black" and would never want their daughter to marry a Black man because they view it as tainting their bloodline.
     
  7. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Inter racial marriage still has enough stigma that I would say it,s not just the fecal matter eating Trump fan who would not want his daughter or son to marry a Black, or a Briwm, or a Democrat.
     
  8. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    No, not really. Unless you think "Money trumps (no pun intended) racism."

    Especially when that "Nationalist" started thinking about "My grandchildren-to-be"
     
  9. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    In the abstract, the Trump fan would claim to have no problem with inter-racial marriage.....they love Clarence Thomas who is married to the whiter-than-marshmallow-fluff Ginni Thomas.

    But consider AGE....the next generation after them or the 3rd has no problem with inter-racial dating or marriage or "bi-racial" people......so, as I say in my Signature Line?

    Racism and bigotry will eventually die.....of old age. :)
     
  10. Guyzilla

    Guyzilla Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The one-drop rule is a social and legal principle of racial classification that was historically prominent in the United States asserting that any person with even one ancestor of sub-Saharan-African ancestry ("one drop" of black blood)[1][2] is considered black (Negro in historical terms). This concept evolved over the course of the 19th century and became codified into law in the 20th century. It was associated with the principle of "invisible blackness" and is an example of hypodescent, the automatic assignment of children of a mixed union between different socioeconomic or ethnic groups to the group with the lower status.[3]

    The same principle may be applied, or has been applied in opposite ways in different cultures, as is the case in Brazil vs. the United States.

    Before and during the centuries of slavery, people had interracial relationships, both forced and voluntarily formed. In the antebellum years, free people of mixed race (free people of color) were considered legally white even if individuals had up to one-eighth or one-quarter African ancestry, depending on the state.[4] Many mixed-race people were absorbed into the majority culture, based on appearance, associations, and carrying out community responsibilities. Those factors, especially community acceptance, were more important if a person's racial status were questioned, not documented ancestry. Because of the social mobility of antebellum society in frontier areas, many people did not have documentation about their ancestors.

    Based on DNA and historical evidence, Thomas Jefferson is widely believed to have fathered the six mixed-race children of his slave Sally Hemings; four survived to adulthood. Hemings was three-quarters white by ancestry and a half-sister of Martha Wayles Jefferson.[quote 1] Their children were born into slavery because of her status; as they were seven-eighths European in ancestry, they were legally white under Virginia law of the time.[5] Jefferson allowed the two oldest to escape in 1822, freeing them legally was a public action that he avoided). He freed the two youngest in his 1826 will. Three of the four entered white society as adults, and all of their descendants identified as white.[5]

    Although racial segregation was adopted legally by southern states of the former Confederacy in the late 19th century, legislators resisted defining race by law as part of preventing interracial marriages. In 1895 in South Carolina during discussion, George D. Tillman, despite his open support of segregation, said,


    It is a scientific fact that there is not one full-blooded Caucasian on the floor of this convention. Every member has in him a certain mixture of... colored blood...It would be a cruel injustice and the source of endless litigation, of scandal, horror, feud, and bloodshed to undertake to annul or forbid marriage for a remote, perhaps obsolete trace of Negro blood. The doors would be open to scandal, malice, and greed.[6]

    The one-drop rule was not adopted as law until the 20th century: first in Tennessee in 1910 and in Virginia under the Racial Integrity Act of 1924, following the passage of similar laws in several other states.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
     
  11. Thanos36

    Thanos36 Member

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    People who don't like "black" people don't hate them because of their skin color. They hate them because of what culture they feel is associated with those with that skin color. If an African marries a white person daughter, he is more or less hostile towards black American culture, and not "dark skin" in general. If that were the case, he wouldn't let his daugher marry an Italian, as they are also dark skinned. People don't care about skin color, there care about the culture associated with the skin color

    - - - Updated - - -

    Off topic. This has nothing to do with the one-drop rule
     
  12. Guyzilla

    Guyzilla Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How so?
     
  13. Thanos36

    Thanos36 Member

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    Because this topic is not about mixing. And the one drop rule applies to mixing
     
  14. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Again, explain how a Klansman who thinks blacks ....from Mississippi to Michigan.....or from Liberia to The Sudan....are "inferior to white people"....

    would be "cool" with his daughter marrying a rich (include "Christian") Nigerian?



    BTW, this isn't about sex.....the most racist white guy in the world would **** a hot Lupita Nyong'o....



    [​IMG]

    over a 400 lbs Anglo-Saxon-only girl with no front teeth.
     
  15. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    That's not entirely true. White Supremacists hate Black people because they think they are better than they are and fundamentally different. Consider the fact that racism was much worse in the antebellum South than it is today and there were no negative stereotypes to associate with Black Americans. You didn't have high crime rates, rap music, ebonics or anything that racist White people associate with Black American culture and use to look down on Black people for and racism was rampant back then because Blacks were considered a lower class of human beings, barely even human in fact. The idea of a Black man marrying a White woman in 1860 was unheard of and in fact became illegal for decades after the Civil War.

    Now is all of this racism including today really about skin color? I don't think it's as simple as that. They don't hate Black people because of their actual skin color but because of a belief in the inferiority of different races. The skin color is more of an indicator of difference than the source of contempt. Make no mistake though, if you don't fit any the negative stereotypes that White Supremacists associate with Black people they will still hate you just because you are Black. They might think better of you as an individual person but they will not accept you as their equal and certainly won't want you marrying their daughter. Look at Barack Obama. He doesn't fit their stereotypes. He is an intelligent, educated, decent family man who is wealthy and powerful exhibiting qualities that you would absolutely want in a friend, neighbor or relative. He is considered a Black man because of the One-Drop rule. Ancestrally he is biracial, the son of a Kenyan immigrant and a White American woman. Now look at all of the hate against him. Look at the racism. What is it really based on? Certainly not culture. Maybe politics? White Supremacists don't like liberal but I don't believe they would want Hermain Cain or Alan Keyes marrying their daughters any more than they would want Obama. They hate Black people and anyone with Black ancestry because of this concept of race which is based on the belief in fundamental biological differences between groups of humans and skin color is the major indicator of race.

    Also while Italians have experienced discrimination in America that is because of a difference in nationality and language not skin color. While Italians are darker on average than the English they are still Europeans and that is why they were able to assimilate in the Whiteness. A Black person no matter how intelligent, law-abiding, educated or wealthy can never assimilate in to Whiteness because of superficial biological differences like skin color. They will always be considered by White Supremacists to be an inferior human because they are believed to be fundamentally different. The same goes for other groups of people who look different to Europeans as well.
     
  16. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    But the no front teeth - Aja "the trailer park look" can promote safe oral sex even for the unskilled trailer trash chick.
     
  17. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To say all black people are black is like saying all Asian people look the same... it's stupid and ridiculous.

    There are many different tribes living in Africa and they vary widely in skin colour, there is no white and black. Only white people have this narrow definition.

    Zulu's for example are quite dark where Xhosas, Sotho's and Vendas are lighter skinned and features also vary to a great extent.

    it would be a wonderful indeed, the day white people can actually see the many shades of humanity.
     
  18. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with you. I had a very honest and frank conversation with a man at my shop who works for the National Write Your Congressman, who happens to be a immigrant from Africa. He is a hold no punches type of guy. He told me that he has no Black friends here. He told me he does not understand what they are always (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)ing about because with determination and hard work you can make it here. Today he own land and multiple businesses, has two kids one a Vet and the other a doctor. When he spoke at the local NAACP meeting he was asked not to come back because he told them what he real thought was the problem of the black community.
     
  19. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    I love how people always get a pic and say the kind of stuff you said. Well no S*** hot is hot. Why do people alway have to add she is hot for an Asian, or hot for a black girl. Good looking is good looking let us please get over race.
     
  20. Thanos36

    Thanos36 Member

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    The view that some races are inferior to others is a matter of philosophy. There are some people out there in the world who are very committed to a certain philosophy, and there is nothing that would break that. These people tend to be very strong advocates and revolutionaries. The average white guy kind of flirting with the idea of race realism isn't committed to philosophy. Most race realist are race realist because they are reactionaries, not revolutionaries. And a viewpoint based on being a reactionary is easily shaken when enough positive experiences happen to shake that worldview. You average "racist" white nationalist isn't committed to the philosophy of white nationalism. He simply sympathize with it at an emotional level. And since he may believe that white people are superior, then white people are a reflection of what he may want from is daughter.

    But lets take a look a scenario of a "white nationalist" who may live in a low income neighborhood. All of the white guy his daughter age are either on drugs, in and out of jail, and most can't hold a job. Now let's say his daughter meets an African immigrant from Nigeria. He has great traits such as being spiritual, committed to family and community, and has a strong sense of morality and values. The minute he sees this African guy he's going to say "Well he's not like the black people born here, so it makes sense he would be different". Now would he allow this guy to marry his daughter? Of course he would. Enough positive experiences over a sustained period of time, and he's just going to lose the white nationalist and race realist point of view. Why? Because he was never fully committed to it in the first place. The more he interacts with this African immigrant, and the less he listens to white nationalist propaganda his views are shaken. Does this mean he likes black people? No, but it does mean he likes a particular person who is darker skinned.

    Now this last paragraph is an important one. In the mind of most white Americans, Africans are less of a threat than black people born here. If a white person sees a black face, and that black face has an accent. There will always be a slight sigh of belief. Even if they see a black American but he speaks with proper english, there is a sigh of relief. So are they at war with Africanism or black skin? No they are afraid of the culture that black America has been associated with. This is why there will always be a distinction between Black and African. Black has the history of the minority experience in America for the last 300 years. It is it's own distinct group with it's own history, and honestly with it's own struggle. Africans don't have the same struggle.
     
  21. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    I'm going to give you an example of how your situation is plausible. Bare in mind this is the exception not the rule. In elementary school I had a classmate who was biracial. He and I were the only "Black" kids in our class. There were rumors that he was a guest on the Oprah show. In fact he told me and some other classmates about his experience on the show. I didn't remember the details of why he was on the show. One thing I do remember about him is that a lot of kids thought he was adopted because both of his parents were White. My mother told me that she talked to his mother who told her that his father was Black and that he died in a motorcycle accident when the kid was like 2, then she remarried. So he was not adopted he was biracial. Anyway years later I was helping my mother setup her DVR and recording some shows including Oprah. One of the shows was Oprah and they were having a 20 year anniversary about race. I decided to watch it. Towards the end of the show I was shocked to see my childhood friend at the age of 4 named Seth Rainey who was featured in an episode where it was explained that his Grandfather was a White Supremacist who used to bully Black men. He was angry when his daughter had a relationship with a Black man and got pregnant. But as he got to know his biracial Grandson his views changed and that led him to accept him and change his views on Blacks.
    Years later he ended up adopting two Black boys and raising them as his sons. Clearly he felt guilty about his racism and wanted to make up for it.

    I uploaded that segment of the episode to my Youtube Channel:

    [video=youtube;39__xvn0YaY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39__xvn0YaY[/video]

    So using this example I can see your point of how if a White Supremacist gets to know a Black man they could accept him as a son-in-law or in this case accept the biracial Grandchild. Because of the intimate connection they are able to see that Black person as an exception and may change their overall views of Blacks based on personal experience. But I think you are mistaken in believing that a hardcore White Nationalist is going to accept an African immigrant with a good background as a son-in-law. Many of them are so hateful and ignorant that they might kill their daughter or hurt the Black man if they got the opportunity. Racism is not a reasonable philosophy. It is born of hatred and ignorance. Consider my example of Barack Obama. He is President of the United States. He doesn't exhibit most of the negative stereotypes associated with African-Americans. He is biracial. His father was an educated African immigrant. Look at all of the racism against him. White Nationalists hate Obama with a passion. Some of that hatred is due to his policies but most of it is directed at his ancestry because they hate Black people. I simply don't buy the culture argument because if that were true White Supremacists would not hate people who don't have these negative cultural attributes. Most of them absolutely hate Black people and they hate them because of their race. I have experienced it first hand.

    I am an African-American from a middle class background. I am educated. I don't have a criminal record. When I first interacted with White Nationalists on their boards I was polite to everyone who was polite to me. Over time I experienced a lot of racism just for being a Black man. The other Egalitarians who were not Black were treated much better depending on their ancestry. They absolutely hated me. Some of them and I mean a select few acknowledged that I was smart and respected me but the majority were very disrespectful and left comments like this:

    [​IMG]

    I received worse messages than that. One poster actually sent me a picture by private message of the severed head of a Black baby. Other posters like Empress have showed me images of Blacks being murdered. That is how evil these people are. I got mad and retaliated by spamming interracial porn and playing in to the negative stereotypes usually with a violent and sexual theme just to make them angry which worked and got me banned on many boards. My personal experience has shown me that these White Supremacists are truly evil and they don't care about what kind of person you are they judge you by your race. In fact Africans recieve more racism than African-Americans. They denigrate African cultures as backward and savage. They make all kinds of racist claims about African cultural achievement. They claim that Africans are stupid, violent and hypersexual and that any problems happening in Africa are due to the racial inferiority of the people. The point I want to impress upon you is that racism against Blacks very much has to do with Africa. The racism towards Blacks started in Africa. White Europeans thought they were superior and came up with the idea of enslaving Black Africans then subjected them to horrible treatment in America. This problem of White Supremacy against Blacks goes beyond anything happening in America. It's not all about cultural perceptions but about race.

    As an experiment you can go to a White Nationalist message board, make a poll and ask them point blank "Would you accept an educated African Immigrant marrying your daughter?." Ask them if not why and let them tell you their reason for not being ok with it. I guarantee you that most will tell you NO and give you some variant of the following answers:

    1) I hate niggers.

    2) I'm against race-mixing on principle.

    3) I don't like the way Blacks look and don't want to share their genes.

    4) I don't want to taint my bloodline.

    5) I don't want my daughter to face shame for her interracial marriage or the kids to experience racism.

    The race-realists will try to sound more scientific and ramble about throwback genes, aggression genes, regression to the mean and other assorted nonsense to justify their racism. Most of them will not have the attitude of Mr. Rainey. They hate Black people with a passion and nothing will change their views. Racism is an evil ideology whose advocates are more stubborn than religious fanatics.
     
  22. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    Black is not american. Youre thinking of negra which is amerucan blacks. Black was used in ancient times by africans to describe africa kamit is what they called themselves which means black also ancient iraqis called themself black too.
     
  23. Jabrosky

    Jabrosky Member

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    While "black" may be a convenient shorthand for indigenous Africans that everyone recognizes, it's far from perfect. The vast majority of native Africans are various shades of brown, not literally black (just as Europeans are usually pink or beige rather than literally white). And I've observed that when arguing whether this or that person is black, the goal post tends to get shifted depending on agenda. On the one hand you have the one-drop rule as mentioned earlier, on the other extreme you have to look like the stereotyped West or "sub-Saharan" African to qualify as "black" no matter how dark you are. So in the end I've come to believe it causes more problems than it solves.

    I think "African" works just fine most of the time. Most of the people in Africa who are lighter-skinned or broadly considered "non-black" are descended from later migrants like Europeans, Arabs, Phoenicians, etc. With the possible exception of certain southernmost Khoisan groups, biologically African people do tend to have darker skin since they lack the skin-lightening mutant alleles found in Eurasians. So yes, as long as you're talking indigenous peoples, African does mean "black".
     
  24. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    all blacks are African and all Africans are black
     
  25. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Not so, it is skin color, if a man is conspicuously white, it is not apparent his mother or father was Black, or that many of his ancestors were Black, or that his or her relatives are Black, skin color is a major factor, if a handsome white man wants to marry a woman, and he is predominantly white, if his parentage is not known, his White skin color is usually enough, no objections or questions.

    I do not agree, it is not a cultural or American concept, I have family the World over, and Black relatives and can tell you honestly, all objections to Interracial marriage or other issues of Race were all related to that persons skin color and nothing to do with culture.

    History and the caste system in India is based on skin color. Not culture, it is the same in other Countries, People of Color includes all tones and shades, even White people descendants of Black People, also of note, Black People often discriminate against each other of those that are of lighter or darker skin tones.

    Oh Hispanics from many Countries, Dominicans for example, are Black, it is not only an American or issue about culture We say Mejorando la rasa, that refers to skin color.
    Sicilians are Olive tone BTW, not a problem for lighter toned Italians, this I well know from my life experience.
     

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