Profound revelations in thought

It used to dismay me to come to places like this and see my faith under attack. I couldn't believe people were so crass, and I even remember when the turning point, which is irrelevant to this post.

However, periodically I will be looking for information about my hobbies. Just for example, it could be about cars, motorcycles, antique furniture, you name it, and an Internet search will take me to a forum where people are talking about the information I want to know.

If I wait long enough, someone will start an argument about (for example) cars. They will say What kind of an idiot would buy XYZ car when you can get a better car from ABC car company?"

And the fight is on. Moral of the story: people don't have to argue about politics and religion, they will argue about literally ANYTHING.

 

This is an obvious observation to make, but there is an inherent difference between the subjects that are being argued. With politics and religion, those are ideas/beliefs that make up a persons identity, or what they think their place in the world is. This allows for such arguments to be more heated. With hobbies, like your example of cars, that's more personal preference based on reputation, materials, etc. As heated as arguments over cars can be, I doubt they can take on the same ferocity of politics and religion.

 

I don't know, I've seen a fist fight over guitar brands!

But it's been my experience that guitar players are kind of a weird sort anyhow.

 

I come from a time when the conventional wisdom was, not to discuss religion or politics. Why was this? Well, we cared about civility, manners, and social lubrication, and so charged subjects were left for the college classroom. But in everyday life? We understood that nothing good could come from talking about religion or politics. And it would create walls between people, divide them, and so on. And then we lost the wisdom, the intelligence and you get America 2016. I prefer those early times in my life, when there was exponentially less stress, a higher level of civility and manners. Today we are surrounded by (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s, division, hatred, anger, the worst side of human nature which is fueled incessantly by people who care not for wisdom. At the bottom of all this, is the total loss of respect and common decency. I was taught by my family to respect others. Today, people are taught that respect has to be earned, a very egocentric view. I was taught, growing us, by my family, at school, that I was no one special, that I was not better than others, as to feed the ego. Today, that is long gone, and we are even taught that we are better, more valuable than the other person.

We live in a society of people infactuated with their own egos, are self involved, extremely judgmental and arrogant, which has created a society of bores, of ill mannered, low civility people. And it is celebrated. So society has become so course, filled with disrespect, and that too is celebrated.

It used to be that a well educated person could be spotted by their manners and civility. And this kind of person was admired. What does this society admire today?

I never witnessed one instance of road rage until the 1980s. It was unheard of. Yes, we have come a long way. Straight down to the bottom where you have to watch where you step, in order to not step in whale (*)(*)(*)(*), which is at the bottom of the ocean, and its hard to get lower than that.

 

Is it possible to move this discussion toward a religious fairy tale?

 

You're a sensitive guy.

 

No, I just remember when people had manners.

 

When was that exactly? LOL!!

AA

 

That was a good post.

Personally, I think this all dates back to the 1960's, when the police were called "pigs", the "establishment" was "the enemy", and veterans and serving members of the military were spat on. Things really hit the skids at the turn of the century when George Bush won the 2000 election, and since then nobody even makes a pretense of civility. There is no name to vile for a political candidate, no lie too egregious, no threat too dangerous. There are people on Twitter who get death threats for their political views.

- - - Updated - - -

It's been a while...

 

Just to add....I really don't see any problem with people debating and discussing various forms of Religion as far as whether they merit and attention.

I don't see this as an attack but rather just really looking to see if a religion is with the cost of the paper it's holy book is written upon.

AA

 

That's interesting. Most people just jump on whatever bandwagon happens to be going by without really doing much critical thinking, which atheists laughingly believe they are good at doing. To get back to my OP, it's like the Chevy owner badmouthing Fords even though he's never owned one. I know, I know, some people claim to "have once been Christians". If that's so, they didn't learn much about it.

 

My point is a specific religion is not OWNED by anyone.

All it is in reality is words on pages and a set specific system of belief or ideology.

It is no different than a book a person wrote of the methodology and ideology behind fly fishing.

Now people can debate what is in the book all they want and of course there are going to be endless debates over what the author was really trying to convey on say page 239 chapter 17.

And there will be people who will agree what the author wrote and people who will say....."This guy doesn't know what he is talking about and this book is crap!"

My point is......EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion, belief and their specific ideology and methodology of Fly Fishing.

Just as everyone is entitled to their opinion, belief and their specific ideology and methodology as far as religion.

But NO ONE owns Religion just as no one owns Fly Fishing.

AA

 

From as much as I know about fly fishing, you do have to observe a certain form in order to do it correctly. Yeah, you can flail around and throw your line into trees, but nobody is going to take instruction from you. And the guy who wrote the book owns the book. He knows what he said and he knows what he meant and all the arguing in the world won't change that, which is the problem you have with everybody having "their opinion, belief and their specific ideology and methodology".

I don't know what "religion" you are talking about, but The Church "owns" Christianity. The Church wrote the Book, and it's their Book. I know the idea of The Church is a difficult concept for people who think the Church is a building or a denomination. But the Church wrote the Book and it is their Book and all the arguing in the world won't change that, and all the opinions in the world don't change what the Book says.

 

You obviously are not getting what I am saying.

First of all you cannot OWN a belief system.

You can own the rights to such a systems guidelines which in this case would be the Bible...but you can't own the ideology nor the system itself.

Secondly as far as the Fly Fishing.....my point is there are a number of different ideologies and methodologies as far as fly fishing and although they have many similarities.....just like monotheistic religions....they do have their differences and then of course there are those who prefer real casting....etc.

So there are a lot of different opinions and beliefs just like religion and of course there are those who do not believe a person should fish at all.

AA

 

This is a distinction without a difference. Without the ideology or the theology the Bible is just a book. And we do own it and by that I mean we have the "copyright" - we were here first and all the pretenders are just that, pretenders.

I assume "real casting" is "reel casting", like spin casting, bait casting, etc. Those guys are fishermen but they are not fly fishermen because fly fishermen are casting their lines, not lead weights. You may think I am being picayune but if you want to communicate an idea (which is what I do on Sunday mornings) you have to be precise and not sloppy. It doesn't matter to me whether the baitcasting guys want to call themselves "fly fishermen" but people who understand this stuff will see the inaccuracies and the uninitiated will be thoroughly confused.

This is why not everybody is "entitled to their opinion" when it comes to Christianity, my "religion". The people who think that have been muddying the waters for about 200+ years to the point where people like you don't even know what Christianity is. Going back to my OP, it's like the Chevy guys saying Fords are Chevys because they are both cars. This is not only inaccurate but it is illogical. I got into an argument with someone the other day over Mormons claiming they are Christian when they don't even have the same conception of God and Christ that the Christian Church has. They are not both Christian because they are both religions, that is the same inaccurate and illogical conclusion as thinking Fords and Chevys are the same brand because they are both cars.

So you can have a difference of opinion over which one is better - Fords or Chevys. What you can't do is make inaccurate claims about either one and say it's your right to make those claims because, after all, everybody is entitled to their opinion.

That said, people are entitled to their own opinions, but they have to stick to the facts. Unless their opinion is based in fact it's worthless.

 

In my opinion people are inherently self-righteous, stubborn, narcissistic, sadistic, playful and hare-wired for survival. Some arguments are survivalist in nature, and are more serious; as in arguing over who was at fault in a car accident, or about who gets the last piece of chicken in the refrigerator. Some people argue out of a sense of playfulness; like when they argue over which color is prettier--red or blue. People that are serious and argue about stupid things are probably doing one of two things: 1. They are just trying to start a conversation, or 2. They are narcissistic, and stubborn; and are trying to convince someone else that their opinions or beliefs are the right ones, and that everyone else needs 'fall in line' with the their point of view.

People are sadistic too. I was watching TV when a commercial was shoved in my face. It was about an upcoming fightfest on cable TV. In one of the scenes, one man has been boxed to his knees, and while he was swooning on his knees, they other guy came over and gave the poor guy another bash in the head which knocked the man over. It really is a gruesome scene; and I wondered why anyone would want to watch people getting beat up and boxed in the head. Back in the gladiator days whole arenas were filled with people who wanted to watch other people getting mauled by wild animals, or fighting to the death. It is extremely sadistic to get pleasure out of watching other people get hurt--kind of like when we laugh at people when they fall down and hurt themselves, or slow down to gawk at car-accident scenes. Where does this pervasive sense of sadism come from? Why are we so cruel? At what point in our evolution did we develop this sadism, and for what purpose?

As far as your religion being under attack: I just did a little googling about sadism. One comment on one of the articles I read stated that sadism stems from Christianity. Some people like to blame Christianity for just about every ill of society. Where this detestation comes from I don't know.

 

I think I can tell you.

People in general have an aversion to authority, whether it's police, government, teachers, bosses, you name it. And nobody hates any authority more than they hate the Church.

For hundreds of years the Church was the arbiter and guardian of the Christian religion. She had some missteps along the way and it caused some people to fall away instead of working from within the Church to make the changes that needed to be made. There was some good that came from the Protestant Reformation, a lot of good thinking and a lot of good thinkers came out of it. The less good thing that came from the Protestant Reformation was that people who were not such good thinkers started deciding that they, too, were "reformers". I could give you an example of a cult that exists to this day who thinks they are the One True Church, but I'll refrain for now.

In Christian theology believers are encouraged to defer to authority for many reasons, for peace and harmony, or to keep from getting yourself killed or thrown in jail. But in my view how can someone who can not defer to an earthly authority that they can see claim to defer to a God that they can't see.

To me people who hate the Church, and by extension, God, think that we are trying to spoil their good time. I have lost track of the atheists who come here and complain about the very idea that God might throw them into hell when all I can think to say is "Why would you want to be with a God you hate anyway?"

It's because they want to be God.

 

When you say "religious fairy tale" do you mean all religions are just some religions?

 

How could anyone hate God when God is in everything and a part of everything? He even abides in atheists. Don't tell them that though. They might try to find a good exorcist. The entire universe is a miracle, with life being the greatest miracle of all.

Have any ideas about why people are so sadistic that they find pleasure in watching people get their brains knocked around? Atheists are confirmed evolutionists. Where in our evolution did we run off the track and become so sadistic? What is the evolutionary point of sadism. (That scene about the two boxers haunts me; and I wonder why anyone would cheer or get pleasure in watching something like that?)

 

Definitly proves you allegiance to civility.

 

It's spelled "definitely", and it's "your" allegiance. Have you read your own signature lately?

 

LOL you are just now realizing that?

 

It wasn't always that way. I'm an old man and discussions about cars didn't turn into fistfight (although you did get the usual needling).

To put it in perspective: if you were bullied when I was in school, you kicked the bullys ass, you didn't shoot up the school.

 

No, I realized it before, I just thought people would come to their senses.

 

Oooooooooo we've got a badass over here.