Where next for Indigenous youth?

This is old news now, however the treament of youth in detention in the Northern Territory has much broader implications than the obvious ignominy. Based on some of the footage available it's concerning to witness what looks much like sadistically inhumane treatment of young people and despite this in itself being an extremely serious issue, it is just but the surface of the deeper ugliness lurking beneath.

Youth who were already feeling a sense of marginalisation prior to detention are having to endure further marginalisation exacerbated by the unscrupulous actions of people with sadistic personality disorders it seems.

Whatever is lurking beneath is why young people initially end up in detention centres and obviously more specifically young indigenous people in high numbers. You can blame the parents and the community but they in themselves are part of one big cycle in a system, which is created for them. For mind our governments are half hearted about the response, it is a political issue not a human one.

Certainly interested to hear a broad range of perspectives on why and how governments can address the issues of indigenous youth in certain sections of the community. Extrapolating programs or initiatives are a waste of time and money. It requires ownership and ownership by communities but not necessarily as administrators but as people who are able to express the issues.

The RC into Abiriginal deaths in custody was meant to be a watershed but has been anything but unfortunately. The failure is not the RC but obligations to implement specific recommendations by not only states and territories but commonwealth.

The demise of Community Development Employment Program(CDEP) was a crucial mistake. Our governments tend to decommission initiatives rather than tweak, especially when it comes to Indigenous programs. Instantaneous to the demise of CDEP's was a decline in community spirit and aspiration. Sure, the program required tweaking to ensure that long lasting and permanent participation in the broader workforce was in focus but cutting the program certainly had far greater negative implications.

Unless issues further down the order are addressed we'll continue to see high incarceration rates, low income, high mortality rates continue to haunt Indigenous communities. They certainly didn't bring these issues on themselves therefore the hardest task is to support them to climb out of a cyclical racially discriminatory system that has kept them wedged between a rock and a hard place from British settlement to especially the 70's but not exclusive of today.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...d/news-story/1662a7ecf5dae9346c8a36ff21b6969a

 

Some observations and thoughts, not really organised. The NT is very different from much of Australia although it shares some similarities with other regions. But it has a government and regional Australia doesn't. The government - CLP or Labor - reflects the social culture of the NT.

Darwin is beset by social problems. People fear housebreakers, I lost count of the number of pretty bloody big dogs that people had wandering around their front yards when I lived there for six months. I was told it was because they were supposed to be a deterrent to breakers. I got the feeling that property crimes were the big issue. From what I picked up in casual conversation much of the violent crime was by pissheads down on Mitchell Street.

The lads we saw on 4 Corners were in there for property crimes, for the most part.

A lot has been said about the programme and much comment has focused on indigenous youth. That's fair enough. But the lad who seemed to get the most attention from the staff at Don Dale was white. It seemed to me that that lad Dylan Voller was a target and had been for years. I know nothing of his record but I suspect it would be breaks, theft, cars and the rest of it. I have the distinct feeling that he had been a major problem for years and that the system was attempting to break him down. Personally I think the lad has major issues with mental and emotional health and should be receiving appropriate treatment rather than being binned.

The Centre itself was a disgrace. The BMU was even bloody worse. Locking those lads up in there for days at a time is a breach of human rights.

The incidents themselves were interesting. Where Voller was in his cell and rushed by, three I think it was, officers and stripped and given a smock, was really interesting. I saw the officers fleeing the cell after they'd turned him over and stripped him. There was no standing over him with threats or biffage. They hightailed it out of there. Why? What were they scared of?

The lad, I think it was Roper, who was bashing property around in the BMU, was acting out. I would have too after being binned insolitary for what was it, two weeks? He didn't do much harm when he was chucking stuff around. No biggie. The attempt to close him down was amateurish.

And that brings me to the staff. Four days training? Really? You get more training as an animal control officer.

So to the other issue. Systemic violence or isolated incidents of unreasonable force? That's the big question for the Royal Commission (among many others of course).

Comments abound in the media about how the RCADIC recommendations were ignored. Don't know where they get that. I remember that time well, I have reason to, I was running our union when the issue broke. The thrust of the allegations is that police and corrections personnel around Australia were murdering indigenous people in custody. I think the spark was the John Pat incident in WA.

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/previous series/lcj/1-20/wayward/ch5t.html

The RCAIDC didn't find what was alleged. Police and corrections were not murdering indigenous people in custody. But the Commission did show up some bloody negligent behaviour, policies, attitudes etc. to persons in custody, particularly indigenous people. I remember at the time a few folks who should have known better wandering around saying, "duty of care? What's that?"

The Commission forced change for the better. It could not do anything about rates of crime, arrest, imprisonment.

The problem I see with the Royal Commission being mooted at present is that it is a solution in search of a problem. If its terms of reference are too narrow then it will not seek to address the root cause of the problems in the NT justice system (juvenile and adult). It will have to go deep into society and ask some uncomfortable questions of society to try and find the root causes of crime and the institutional reactions. It will be a missed opportunity if political expediency (arse-covering) or social evangelism (stop locking up indigenous people and all will be well) are allowed to shape its approach.

 

Thank you. Thank you for your insight and frankness. Here is the frames of reference that it needs to look at. Why two races of intelligent people cannot logically sort out an answer in the 21st Century.

There are two groups at the moment actively engaged and one group not.

There are the extremists, black and white. They have agendas much darker then conciliation, (note I say conciliation not reconciliation. Reconciliation infers that we were once conciliated), I would say that these are about 10%.

There are the conciliators, those seeking unity, fairness, recognition. There are dozens of different groups unfortunately not very united and all have different views, directions and desired outcomes. I would say that they are also about 10%.

Then there is the rest, the 80% who will vote for recognition, vote for reconciliation, want better rights for ALL people. They want one big happy successful Australia for all it's people. This group includes most politicians etc. The problem is this group doesn't know it exists. This group, the group with the power to make dramatic changes, deosn't even realise that it even exists.

It only sees the other two groups, and it's only usually the radical extremists that are visible.

 

Shouldn't the real questing be: Where next for Australian youth?

 

If the Aboriginal people cannot rectify the internal infighting between themselves, and all the external fighting between the 500 different Aboriginal clans within Australia.

Then how in hell do they expect white Australians to help them, and stop the fighting? Its never been accomplished in the USA, so how is it ever going to be accomplished here?

How in hell is it logically possible to negotiate with 500 different and separate groups of Aboriginals, and come to one positive outcome for everyone involved?

 

We all know the problems, it is some new ideas we need, not rehashing the problem

 

The USA spend $hundreds of billions over the Century on commissions and "think tanks" trying to solve the same problems that are facing Australians, but everything they tried failed. It failed because the different American Indian tribes could never stop the infighting between themselves, and fighting the differences between their different tribes to unite under one cohesive Indian society. The reason why different tribal Indian reservations are scattered across the USA.

The same has thing has happened in Australia. $tens of billions squandered on commissions and "think tanks" to find solutions to the Australian Aboriginal problem, when the Australian Aboriginals are the problem within themselves.

I will challenge anyone to try and logically negotiate with 500 different groups of people, and secure a positive outcome for everyone. Its an impossible task that is doomed to failure from the beginning.

The Aboriginal people are the solution to their own problems - no one else. Until they can negotiate positive outcomes between themselves and their different clans, then no one else has a bloody chance of succeeding.

There were numerous independent European tribes scattered throughout different European countries at one time in history, but these different tribes came together to form one cohesive tribe/society. I don't think its an unreasonable expectation to think Australian Aboriginal tribes can do the same, considering the current massive problems that's being faced.

 

This group, although it does not realise it, is very very powerful - look what that 80% did in the referendum. This strikes right to the heart of the Australian belief in "fairness" and that and that alone is so strong that it will take a lot for us to be satisfied that this has been addressed.

Two things struck me

First was "Was this an example of the Stanford Prison experiment?" Give someone a bad name and no one can see good in them

Second was "How the HELL are we going to help those kids now after all of that?" Those kids will never give enough trust to anyone to be able to engage and heal

 

Diuretic would have experienced first hand the clash of different Aboriginal tribes during his adventures in the NT.

When they first meet, they seem like the best of friend. They get along like friends and family that have not seen each other for 50 years.

After the second flagon, they are at each other throats like a bunch of barbarians. Accusing each others tribe of attacking the other tribe at some creek crossing somewhere 200 years ago.

Yes. You might say alcohol influence this behaviour, and without alcohol present, this exchange might never have occurred. But you also have to understand the old and true adage: "what's in a man sober comes out in him drunk". If Aboriginal people are willing to keep this kind of grudge against their own people for such long periods of time, then how are they ever going to truly forgive the White man?

I believe the Aboriginal people have to reconcile with themselves, before they can reconcile with anyone else.

 

This is one of the many problems in society with no solution.
Im afraid its as simple as that...

 

Putting a kid in prison will never rehabilitate the kid.

You have to help them and get them in some programs that teach them basic skills and teach them to build confidence.

I used to help run a program for inner city youths who kept on getting in trouble with the law and I would teach thm how to swim...teach them forestry....and other things.

They spent 30 days with us high in the mountains and over 70% of those kids who were involved with this program did not get in trouble with the law again.

But you throw them in jail....you are just going to make them better criminals.

AA

 

There are solutions - just no magic wand approaches

The indigenous communities that have had programs like informal apprenticeships coming out there have done well. There is a program where builders and plumbers go to the communities and teach the people there how to do things for themselves and this has made a HUGE difference to the people and the standard of living

I don't think most Australians know how isolated and remote many Indigenous communities are. Travel across the Barkley highway and you will see simple markers beside dirt tracks - somewhere down that track is a community. Nearest town could be 200 K away. The biggest issue for the indigenous is that instead of assisting we have simply thrown money at the problem

 

Agreed. There are programs here - not many - but they do exist where kids are taken "out bush" and taught how to live off the land by an elder. Soon sorts them out. They come back changed because they have a sense of pride in themselves

 

Exactly.

When a kid is told his or her life that they are trash....they act like trash.

They need to be taught some life lessons and there is no better life lesson than survival.

AA

 

There is a solution. Many intelligent academic Americans attempted to address the solution decades ago, but failed. They failed because native American Indians refused to become one cohesive, united, Indian Nation. It failed due to do-gooders intervening in important social issues, where their knowledge and education on the subject matter didn’t equal their intellect. They scampered around convincing Native American tribes that forming a combined cohesive Indian Nation was a detrimental form of integration, and as a recourse, would lose their independent native culture to the “white-man” forever.

These intelligent Americans many decades ago, understood that it was an impossible task to negotiate positive outcomes for so many independent native tribes, all wanting and expecting different outcomes to different problems.

When their plan for one cohesive Indian Nation failed, the only logical recourse left was to initiate independent reservations for the different native tribes. They also allowed these reservation a certain amount of self-rule and determination to the native people who wanted to reside on them. What else could they possibly do with hundreds of different groups of people hell-bent on fighting with each other, and other tribes, all wanting different outcomes?

Sound familiar?

With all due respect, we can go around and around on this subject until monkeys learn how to speak, because its going to take that long for the majority of the Aboriginal people to understand and comprehend that Australia is one piece of rock on a planet that belongs to every human being; not just them anymore.

 

Yeah but no matter what.....you can't throw young kinds into jail and expect prison to make them better.

It won't.

Adults are one thing but kids?

I had some of the most hardcore child thugs you could imagine that I taught and all that bravado went right out the window the moment they had to repel down a 300 foot cliff side.

Now obviously Aborigine kids will need a different trigger.

You just have to find it.

AA

 

I do agree that prison and juvenile detention can turn some minor offenders into major offenders upon release. I also agree with your direct intervention program to a certain point.

Doesn’t it beg the fundamental question. “If prison/juvenile detentions are such harsh places for criminals to be detained in. Then why do so many of these individuals get caught doing mostly petty crimes knowing they will be sent back there”?

I believe the answer is a simple one. It starts with the prisons/juvenile detention facilities themselves. The majority are nothing more than five star resorts with barbed wire fences on the outside. Many criminals prefer to take the easy way-out by wanting the inside luxuries offered by prison/juvenile detention facilities, rather than doing the hard-yards on the outside by making an honest living for themselves in the real world like everyone else.

Yes. They might get sentenced to 12 months in prison/juvenile detention, but it’s a bloody easy life once they get inside. Three meals catered per day; money for personal items and snacks; Gym; computer access; library; ensuite shower & toilet in every room + personal TV; tennis courts; swimming pools. No wonder they want to re-offend and go back inside. The punishment no longer fit’s the crime.

Also. Nothing is ever mentioned about the victims of these criminals. What support do they get offered?

 

I am not talking about violent offenders.

They get what they deserve.

But I am also not talking about letting a kid get off easy who is always in trouble with the law.

30 days with me is a LOT tougher than they would ever imagine.

AA

 

I think the problem is deeper than that. I feel the problem is human nature, and for every group of kids
that is "sorted out" that group is replaced by another group. The cycle will remain unchanged whilst you
have incompetent parenting and kids that don't want to work because they've never lived in a place where
their father went off to work every day.
This is not a problem that has just occurred...its been with us for decades...

 

I am not very familiar with the situation in Australia, but as far as the "new ideas": if they haven't found one that works so far, they aren't going to find one. I hate to sound pessimistic, but Australians have had plenty of time to come up with a plan. It sounds like they have come up with a lot of them actually but none of them have worked. It may be hard to admit this, but it sounds like there is a clash of cultures going on. The indigenous vs everyone else. They see themselves getting left behind while their country fills up with, not only whites, but with Asians and Middle Easterners. They are probably seething with resentment; but like I said . . . what do I know.

 

A working, functional father-figure, and a mother that can protect their children from predators makes all the difference in the world. We have the same kind of situation here in the US with the Native American youth, the black youth, a burgeoning population of fatherless Hispanics, and every other group of people who are having children without a functional father around. Without a traditional, functional family, most of these kids don't have a chance.

 

They get computer access in prison? Do they get to chat in forums? I have wondered if some posters weren't posting from a prison cell. They have tennis courts and swimming pools? You can't be serious. They also have prison rapes, fights, shankings, and prison bars.

 

We're pretty soft in Australia....or should I say dumb...the population has been complaining for decades that the
crims get it too easy...thats where some of our tax dollars go...giving crims an easy "gaol sentence"
...anyone for tennis....!!!

 

I think apprenticeship programs is a great solution to the 'otherness' the indigenous feel. A job they can do well, with a good paycheck as a bonus would boost anyone's spirit.

 

A couple of things to note and I'm not sure if it was just in the NT but you'd expect it to be fairly broad in terms of ratio, anyway, it was reported that Indigenous youth are 52 times more likely to end up in detention than non indigenous. It is a major issue of epic proportions from my perspective based on these figures.

The much broader issues that you raise would obviously open up Pandora's box. In addressing the core of the issue would take a mighty shift in attitudes, which is unlikely to occur in the broader community.

Equality of opportunity is the focus of the general Australian public, which is fair enough but unfortunately equality of outcomes is lost in the need for people to feel as though they aren't being discrimated against over another group. It is the down and out Anglo guy who feels as though he isn't being treated fair because Indigenous people are receiving assistance that isn't available to him. There would be a sense of envy, followed by anger over the unfair treatment. How do you balance that out? If you fit into the middle class and are doing alright, you'd be more inclined to support iniatives that address the needs of Indigenous people.

Anyway, a bigger issue is our governments simply playing with the issue like a political toy that only needs to brought out of the toy box when the baby is unsettled. I'm a strong believer that the central focus has to be at the crucial developmental stage of a persons development, which is early childhood up to early high school. This would be an effort to fling as many young children out of the cycle that they are being consumed by with alternate options to the foremost.

While the government is supporting indigenous people through this process surely our most vulnerable Anglo children can be assisted through the process of addressing indigenous disadvantage and ensure attitudes of discrimation are nullified.

I know some will say that Indigenous people were forgotten just a generation ago from participation in education, employment and participating fully in society and therefore have a lot of ground to make up. It is absolutely true and fully understand that but getting around our most vulnerable Anglos and forgetting their struggles in an equal system just does not look equal to them in the now.