The myth of the Black-on-White rape epidemic

Discussion in 'Race Relations' started by Egalitarianjay02, Aug 7, 2016.

  1. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    Recently I encountered a claim that I have heard a long time by racists that Black men rape 30,000 White women per year and virtually no White men rape Black women per year. This immediately struck me as nonsense when I first heard it but supposedly it is based on official crime statistics so it is believed to be a fact. Well it's not. I emailed Tim Wise about this. This is what he had to say:


    So there you have it. The statistic is not a real stat but an estimate based on testimonies from crime victims surveys and represented by less than 10 samples. Interracial rape in reality is very rare. There is no epidemic, just random acts of violence by depraved and despicable men but as Wise pointed out most White women who are victims of rape were raped by White men.

    Now he does point out that while White-on-Black rapes are not literally zero Black-on-White rapes are more prominent. I have several views on why this is:

    1. Whites are the majority in America so there are many more White women available to be raped than there are Black women.

    2. Black rapists have more access to White women than White rapists do Black women (in modern times) because Black men are more likely to encounter and interact with a White woman than White men are with Black women.

    3. Blacks are disproportionately poor due to historical racist discrimination so Black men are more likely to be prone to psychological factors that are related to the choice to rape (ex. drug abuse, physical abuse in childhood, sexual abuse in childhood, bad role models etc.).

    Sexual violence is a horrible crime and I believe that every rapist should be punished harshly. I don't believe however that there is such a thing as a natural-born rapist. Black men are not innately prone to rape. Most Black men who rape White women are probably not targeting them because they are White. I'm sure some do and vice versa with White rapists but the idea that there is a racist element to these crimes on average is unfounded. Black men are not raping White Women on the order of 30,000 per year. There is no reliable statistical evidence for this. Estimates from crime victims surveys can not give you reliable figures because:

    1. Many rapes go unreported.

    2. Some women are lying.

    3. Testimonies from a small sample size do not represent the entire population of potential victims.

    A more credible statistical analysis would be to look at figures for actual rape convictions and see how many of them are Black-on-White rapes. But apparently this is not being done. This would still not give you solid numbers because of the unreported rapes and false convictions but I think that would be more reliable than the method they have now. Consider this to be another myth dispelled and next time you hear it don't believe it.
     
  2. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused by this post. Are you arguing that crime statistics really are not crime statistics, and the Dept of Justice’s National Crime Victimization Series statistical reports are not in fact valid in determining crime statistics?
     
  3. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    I'm arguing that it is not a statistical fact that Black men rape 30,000 White women per year and White men rape zero Black women per year. That is an estimate based on a survey with a small sample size.

    There are no reliable crime statistics on interracial rape. What little we know indicates that Black men are slightly over represented in the rape of White women but the vast majority of White women that have been raped were raped by White men.

    There simply is no epidemic of Black men targeting White women for rape.
     
  4. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    So, you are rejecting what crime statistics we do have, and replacing them with an assumption?
     
  5. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    I'm not making any assumptions only saying that the statistical estimates are not concrete facts.
     
  6. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    Ah, glad you cleared that up, because it sure seemed like you were saying...
    ...which would be making an assumption that the concrete facts are in direct opposition to the statistical estimates. That you were not just saying "we can't draw conclusions from these statistics", but saying "we can draw conclusions which are the opposite of what the statistics say." But you wouldn't do that, right?
     
  7. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    So are you saying that only rape statistics are unreliable, or all crime statistics are unreliable, since they're all based from the same survey?
     
  8. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    I said that there is no evidence of an epidemic if we define that as Black men targeting White women for rape in large numbers.

    Rape statistics are less reliable because they happen less frequently and are harder to prove.
     
  9. Pax Aeon

    Pax Aeon Well-Known Member

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    I don't know where you come from but I've never heard of this supposed black/white rape epidemic you talk of in the US. Are you from Germany, France, Sweden or England?
     
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  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    So you believe the DOJ National Crime Victimization statistical reports for all other crimes except for the part on rape? Even though the methodology is the same?
     
  11. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    I'm from the United States and it's commonly talked about in White Nationalist circles.

    I don't necessarily believe any of the statistics are completely accurate but rape statistics are less reliable for the reasons that Tim Wise gave.
     
  12. Pax Aeon

    Pax Aeon Well-Known Member

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    I figured. The elite of US society.
     
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  13. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    So you don't believe the statistics because Tim Wise told you? What is his law enforcement or statistical background?

    I'm not saying that government statistics are perfect or can't be challenged, but they are usually challenged on the basis of statistical rigor, not because some nobody says so. That's like you challenging them with no evidence. It means nothing to me.
     
  14. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    Clearly they are being challenged because of statistical rigor. You can't possibly know the exact figures from a survey with a small sample size.
     
  15. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well let's see the study that challenges it then.
     
  16. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that 30,000 is a very small number in a Country the size of the U.S. ?
    And over what time period ?
     
  17. After Hours

    After Hours Well-Known Member

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    The image of the big bad scary black man raping white women goes back many many years. Remember that back in the day all it took was for a white woman to scream that a black man raped her, and he would be lynched because of it. Whether or not she was telling the truth was irrelevant. I have no doubt that many innocent black men were lynched because of lies of rape.
     
  18. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    Indeed it is. There are about 105 million White women in the United States. 30,000 is a tiny fraction, far less than 1%. So the odds of the average White woman being raped by a Black man in America are astronomically slim.

    But according to the National Crime Victimization Series about 117,000 White women are raped per year in the United States. If 30,000 of those victims were raped by Black men then Black men commit about 25% of the rapes on White women. Black men are only about 6% of the population so they would be greatly over represented in the rape of White women. If all of the other rapists are White then 75% of rapists who rape White women are White men meaning the chances are very high that if a White woman gets raped it's by a White man. However based on these statistics it could be argued that a Black man is 4 times more likely to rape a White woman as a White man. Then of course White Supremacists use the figure of zero estimated Black women being raped by White men per year to imply that Black-White interracial rape is almost entirely Black-on-White. The argument is of course that Black rapists are targeting White women and much more biologically prone to be rapists.

    This sort of argument spawns comments like this:

    [​IMG]

    And threads like this:

    Stormfront.org - Statistics on the 30,000 White Women who get raped by Black men each year?


    That's true. In fact my mother told me that she was told as a little girl that a cousin of hers was tried and convicted of rape then got the electric chair when it was common knowledge in the neighborhood that the Black boy was dating the White girl. Basically when it was discovered that they were in a relationship the girl lied and screamed rape and our cousin was electrocuted because of this. My family is from Alabama by the way. A lot of racist injustice has gone on in the South. Look at what happened to Emmett Till. He lived in the North, allegedly flirted with a White woman in the South to impress his friends. She complained of sexual harassment and Till was murdered by two White men.
     
  19. After Hours

    After Hours Well-Known Member

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    Well, there's a reason why many blacks don't trust majority/all white juries, and cops too for that matter. I can't blame them for not trusting the justice system in any way shape or form. You have to earn trust.
     
  20. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    Yes, there is a lot of racism in the criminal justice system in America as many Whites are still racist. There are bad cops and bad juries who make judgment calls that are biased against Blacks leading to disproportionate incarceration rates and bad verdicts in court. That's why I believe the Black Lives Matter movement has a just cause. All of these White cops getting away with murdering Black people is wrong. The Trayvon Martin case was particularly disgusting. That boy was murdered in cold blood by a vigilante neighborhood watchman who had a history of violence. I hope George Zimmerman gets what he deserved and think it's awesome that he got punched in the face by that biker in a restaurant for bragging about killing Trayvon. He needs to be in jail.

    Anyway back to interracial rape. If White men are estimated in these statistics to rape zero Black women per year then there is something wrong with the method this statistical analysis is based on. Tim Wise pointed out that one year the number of White-on-Black rapes numbered in the thousands and several other years it was far less or zero. This really shouldn't be hard for people to understand that the data is simply not reliable.
     
  21. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    Actually, no you didn't. I quoted exactly what you said, and the word "evidence" was nowhere to be found. You simply asserted that it was the case that no epidemic existed, and dismissed the available evidence.
     
  22. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    I said no epidemic existed. Clearly I am implying that there is no reliable evidence to claim an epidemic exists. The lack of the use of the word "evidence" in my original comment is irrelevant. My reasoning based on the statements of Tim Wise about the source of the 30,000 figure is that it is based on an estimate from survey data using a very small sample size so it could easily be inflated.
     
  23. After Hours

    After Hours Well-Known Member

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    Wise makes a good point that I have made in the past about black on white crime. There are way more white people in America than blacks. Chances are if a crime is committed against someone, it's going to be a white person, because whites are the majority in America. That said, most crime is intraracial any way. You are likely to have a crime committed against you by someone of your own race than anyone else, and this includes whites. This fact doesn't suit the right wing agenda, but it's a fact nevertheless.
     
  24. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    I should also point out that the survey does not make a distinction between forcible rape and sexual assault. Sexual assault could range from penetration to inappropriate touching so in the small sample size used by the survey some of those "rape" testimonies could actually be a man grabbing or touching a woman's butt or breasts. This fact is even acknowledged by White Supremacists who make articles about the alleged Black-on-White rape epidemic.

    Those same people make racist images like this to promote their racist ideological agenda:

    [​IMG]
     
  25. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    People forget how many Black Men were lynched by White Mobs on the strength of a false accusation that a Black Man had merely leered at a White Woman.

    https://youtu.be/h4ZyuULy9zs

    Billie Holiday sings a very sad song about this tragedy.

    And even if that statistic was true, every day White Catholic Priests have sexually abused young boys in far greater numbers in parishes the World over.
     

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