I like to hear the thoughts from pro gun controllers on what they think what the Bible (particularly the New Testament) says about self defense. I've vioced my opinion before but for a refresher I believe that not only is it permissible, but mandatory to have the best means of defense you feasibly can.
1) 14 When Abram heard that his relative had been taken captive, he called out the 318 trained men born in his household and went in pursuit as far as Dan. 15 During the night Abram divided his men to attack them and he routed them, pursuing them as far as Hobah, north of Damascus. 16 He recovered all the goods and brought back his relative Lot and his possessions, together with the women and the other people. Genesis Chapter 14 We see that Abraham gathered together the modern equivalent of a militia and went to his relative's rescue. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" II Timothy 3 : 16 2) In the book of Judges, there are several instances where Sampson, who was ordained to be a Nazarite (Prince) to god (Judges 13 :7) and who was blessed by the LORD (Judges 13:24) had used weapons to kill the Philistines. In one chapter Sampson, "...found a new jawbone of an ass, and put forth his hand, and took it, and slew a thousand men therewith..." (see Judges 15) 3) In Luke 22 Jesus said: "35 And he said unto them (his apostles), When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. 36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one". Gee, the apostles were ordered to buy a robe even if they had to hock their robes. Might I point out they were then as well armed as anyone on Caesar's SWAT team? " [21]When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: [22] But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils". (Luke 11) Check those out. There are plenty more. Wonder how the anti-gunners can handle the truth???
A man's gotta do... Moses gives a slave-driver payback- "One day, after Moses had grown up, he went out to where his own people were and watched them at their hard labor. He saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his own people. Glancing this way and that and seeing no one, he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand" (Exodus 2:11) And when a mob came to arrest Jesus, the disciples lashed out- "Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s servant, cutting off his right ear" (John 18:10)
In short, there is nothing wrong with being prepared for self defense and defending yourself. The Bible warns of being quick to violence and seeking revenge, but self defense is righteous. This is a pretty good read on the subject. http://www.biblicalselfdefense.com
Because Jesus' arrest was wrongful, Peter's defense was acceptable. However, Jesus knew that God's plan was for Jesus to be arrested and eventually crucified to pay for the sins of man. Jesus stopped Peter because he didn't want Peter to thwart God's will.
Yes but the fact remains Jesus surprisingly allowed Peter to carry a sword in the first place (probably as a deterrent to muggers on their travels), from which we can conclude there's nothing "evil" about weapons themselves, so the bad guys better watch out.. "The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand" (Deuteronomy 28:49)
It depends on which version of god you worship. The American god for example loves guns and seemingly has no issue with shooting people or sometimes children, especially if they look like they might be armed. The UK god on the other hand, doesn't like guns one little bit and thinks its barbaric to shoot people simply because they might want to nick your TV. The USA version of god is rather blood thirsty compared to other versions.
Ehh, close enough to illustrate my point. - - - Updated - - - I'm asking for scripture and context for your position. Not opinion.
This is one area where the US version of God and Jesus differs from the other versions you'll find around the world. The US version of god and Jesus loves guns, and they also think its OK to use them to shoot black people.
What does the Bible say about self defense? Nobody is asking what various religions have to say about it. Although, the pope has a pretty sweet arsenal in his basement.
Have you ever faced a Drug crazed attacker at 1-2 am ? If you had, you might feel differently about Guns, it is not about a bloke trying to steal a television set, it is about a crazed killer.
Have you ever faced a Drug crazed attacker at 1-2 am ? - Um...no, but if i did, the "drug crazed attacker" would most likely be unarmed so i still wouldn't need a gun. America does sound a rather brutal and bloodthirsty place compared to here - Most people here are just trying to steal your TV, In America you seem to have a lot more "crazed killers" then we do. From my on small person experience, most drug crazed people aren't that athletic, especially at 2.00am so escaping them isn't that difficult. Besides the historical and cultural differences in our view on guns, there also seems a strong necessity angle as well.
Exactly. Nobody celebrates some loon 'home owner' that shoots a petty criminal for breaking into their house to steal a tv in Australia. But in USA if a 'homeowner' shoots a criminal for trespassing or break and enter the US media treats them as if they are a hero. Most normal people do not want to kill someone just for breaking into their house. American gun owners are not normal - and they seem to want an excuse, any excuse to kill someone. And the bible is stupid. If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; but if it happens after sunrise, he is guilty of bloodshed. ( Ex 22.2 ) ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_the_other_cheek Shooting a person for break and enter is not self defense. Turn the other cheek. Love thy neighbour as thy self. Thou shalt not kill.
Could you teach me how to tell the difference between a criminal just breaking and entering and one intent on rape or murder, do they wear signs, do they announce their intentions or is there some tell? Come on man, let us in on your secret!
People die regularly in this country from home invasions. The right to self preservation is a right that existed way before the formation of any government.
Even if the intruder was intent on rape and murder that would mean to me that they are insane and we should not celebrate the deaths any person even ones that are criminally insane. I come from a nation that does not have the Death Penalty. USA is the only western nation that still has a Death Penalty isnt it? That is part of the problem. American society promotes the idea that criminals do not deserve to be treated like humans. Your jails treat your criminals like animals and so does your society in general. You actually treat animals better than you treat criminals. So American thinking is that it is a great thing to kill a criminal - but in civilized nations we even avoid trying to kill criminals. When the Lindt Cafe siege was happening the police here did all they could to end the situation without loss of life - including the life of the terrorist. http://nswcourts.com.au/articles/when-can-i-kill-an-intruder-the-law-of-self-defence-in-nsw/ http://theconversation.com/how-far-can-you-go-to-lawfully-protect-yourself-in-a-home-invasion-56900 See in Australia you must have reasonable grounds/reasonable necessity to shoot and kill an intruder that breaks in to your home. You cant just shoot anyone that breaks in to your house as soon as he climbs in the window because you are a coward that is scared that he will rape or kill you. You have to have reasonable necessity to kill an intruder. And since we have sensible gun laws in Australia and very low gun ownership we really do not get a lot of home owners shooting criminals that have broken in to their house. It almost never comes up but when it does the media does not treat the 'home owner' as a big hero like you do in America because that would be uncivilized. So I hope that clears things up for you. You must have reasonable grounds/reasonable necessity - but it is best if you do not keep weapons in your home because you may get scared and shoot some kid wearing a Halloween costume one night and that would be a real tragedy. So dont shoot the criminal as soon as he climbs in your window - wait to see what he does first and only shoot him if you have reasonable necessity. If you can avoid conflict in any way then try to avoid it. It is best if you call the police immediately and let them handle it rather than try to be some kind of hero vigilante. It is best not to keep weapons for protection in your home because accidents do happen and I am sure that the last thing you would want to do is take a life if it could have been avoided in any possible way.
I just posted some stuff about home invasion law in Australia. Our laws are very different to your laws - http://theconversation.com/how-far-can-you-go-to-lawfully-protect-yourself-in-a-home-invasion-56900 Here in Australia you cant just shoot a person because they are home invaders. In Australia you must prove that killing the intruder was unavoidable. Could the home owner have retreated or avoided conflict in any way? If so then the home owner had no reasonable necessity to kill the intruder.
Maybe your countrymen are better at mind reading to see what the intention is of the home invaders. Here we don't presume that someone that has the balls to break into your home while someone is home, is not there to rape, or murder, or otherwise harm your family. Most criminals here don't like witnesses. We love our families too much to gamble on the intentions of people that have already shown they make bad decisions. Our laws may not work for your country and yours certainly wouldn't work here. I'll tell you what, I won't criticize your laws or try to persuade you that ours are better than yours, and why don't you do the same.... nuff said.
