People want a vote in parliament NOT a plebiscite on Marriage Equality

Well there you have it people. This so called election mandate on a plebiscite has been blown out of the water based on latest opinion poll on matter.

I think people are actually understanding that the law can be changed as an act of parliament and doesn't need a plebiscite or referendum. This is the only reason I can think of people wanting to previously support a plebiscite. I think they also understand that the bloody process is a waste of money in light of obvious support for marriage equality unanimously across the nation. People also probably realise that Turnbull and his party are not obligated to a plebiscite which could add more to the waste.

Hurry up and just get the dang thing passed in parliament so that people can move on you geese and stop using the bloody thing as political leverage.


http://www.nine.com.au/article/8145152?site=news


http://gaynewsnetwork.com.au/news/n...arriage-equality-over-a-plebiscite-22102.html

 

There are two facebook pages that support SSM and one opposed to it. Looking at the later would remove several IQ points. It is full of irrelevant posts. The comments are not worth reading. If you make a critical comment you are banned from the page. In contrast the two that support SSM have a much larger following, comments are worth reading.

The idea of a plebiscite is losing popularity because people are thinking about it and realising it is such a poor idea. It is expensive and a once off.

 

It is even more interesting that Christians are actually supporting marriage equality. No doubt Catholics would have no problem but you would think a few Protestants would.

Anybody with of the human focussed phobias has intellectual deficiency as far as I'm concerned Robot.

 

There is about as much possibility of the Liberals passing gay marriage through Parliament as there is of them passing a carbon tax through Parliament. Politics is never to be taken at face value, there are always issues lingering behind the scenes.

In this case, it's all about 18c. The Liberals want a plebiscite, in part, because it will expose section 18c for what it really is. The public debate will make it politically viable to repeal/amend section 18c and 18d of the RDA. People recognize that the right-wing of the LNP is pushing this, nobody ever bothers to ask why. They're clearly going to lose the plebiscite.

 

I am a Catholic and I dont care. Why would Catholics have a problem with it? And 'protestants'? We say Catholic or protestant in Australia do we? Are you even Australian? What the hell are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Australia

The Church of England 'anglican' 'protestants' are the minority in Australia. Methodists are not even worth mentioning. And you think that if 'christians' support gay marriage that the majority of them must be Church of England and Methodist? The most hard line Christians are from USA arent they - and USA is a so-called protestant nation isnt it? It is USA that never shuts up about abortion, contraception and gay marriage - and us Roman Catholics are to blame are we? What you say is utterly idiotic. As usual.

“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods," - Pope Francis

And us Roman Catholics are the hard liners are we? I dont think so.

How many Roman Catholic fanatics do you know in Australia mate? Have you ever met a Roman Catholic? You must have because we are the majority. You think Roman Catholics are so different do you? Us Roman Catholics are the traditionalists that must be against gay marriage are we? What do you say such utterly idiotic things? I am embarrassed for you.

Do you have some kind of Roman Catholic phobia do you? Is that it? Is that the reason behind your anti-Roman Catholic nonsense?

edit - But where does it claim that 'christians' support gay marriage anyway? The real reason the Australian ruling class do not really want a plebiscite is because there is a very good chance that Australia will vote against gay marriage. the media are liars and their polls mean nothing. It is the same reason they have backed off the idea of a plebiscite on Aboriginal recognition in the constitution. Australians are sick to death of hearing about crying Aboriginals and we will vote against Aboriginal recognition in constitution to protest special treatment for Aboriginals in this country. We will for sure - so you cant have a plebiscite in Aboriginal recognition in constitution. And Labor/liberals are worried that this gay stuff will fail and that is the reason behind all this anti-plebiscite bullcrap.

Liberalism is failing - not just here in Australia but in all western nations. It is in its death throes. And we are going to (*)(*)(*)(*) on its grave. You liberals are the minority.

 

Nah the Tories Christian right wing is running this. The plebiscite idea was to deter the issue being resolved. Parliament should do its job and debate it, not hand it over to us.

 

Gee, I didn't think you cared about me like this WJV.

* So you've concluded that I dislike Catholics
* You've concluded that I ain't an Aussie
* You've concluded that I believe Catholics dislike gays
* You've concluded that I had made up the poll
* you've concluded that Australia doesn't use term Protestant
* you've concluded that I dislike you
* you've confirmed that you do some pretty heavy sh!t
* you've confirmed that your comprehension skills are still in infantile development stage
* you've confirmed that you may not be as old as what you pretend
* you've confirmed you are a wrist flapper.

Just kidding but hey, it could well be all true.

Go back and read my post and let me know how you come to your conclusion....hopefully you can dispel some of the confirmations I detect.

I tell you what though WJV, those bogan types from reclaim Australia are a pretty wild looking bunch hey. No teeth, mullets, backyard tattoos and can string a few expletives together.

 

Yep but if Turnbull decides that his members can have a conscience vote the deal will be as good as done you'd think.

If they go to a plebiscite it will actually demonstrate why it is important to maintain 18c.

Why are they going to lose plebiscite?

 

They're running the whole party and consequently the country. Surely Australians can see that hard right politics is not good for our nation.

 

Just as if Turnbull decided that his members could have a conscience vote on any number of ALP policies, the deal would be as good as done. Turnbull himself would support an ETS. Again, you are looking at this issue at face value, when all the politics is occurring under the surface.

On the contrary, 18c is blatantly totalitarian and anti-free speech (a topic I have spoken about at length before), and if it's shown just how far it actually goes during a free speech filled public debate, there will (in the eyes of the LNP right at least) be enough public backlash to amend or repeal it.

Because Australians resoundingly support gay marriage, even Liberal voters.

 

I read your post ASIO.

It is as stupid to claim that 'protestants' would be against gay marriage as it is to claim that Catholics would be. And if you are going to post such nonsense then I may as well respond with a reply that makes as much sense. But everything I said is true. But even though it is, what reason do you have for thinking that Catholics are more liberal than Church of England? Why would you think that or say it?

And you seem to be very obsessed with 'Reclaim Australia'. And them not having teeth. What exactly does Reclaim Australia' have to do with me? You think I am an Reclaim Australia supporter do you? I dont think so. I know a guy that is a Reclaim Australia guy. I cant stand him. And his stupid racist bullcrap.

Why do you talk about Reclaim Australia so very much? They are about as significant as the ADL or the Sons of Odin.

My comprehension is fine. Why do you claim that there is such a difference in the politics of Catholics and the Church of England? Why would you say such a stupid thing? What do you mean?

 

Hi,
I wouldn't mind that we vote for it. The Swiss vote for any crap every fortnight.
The only big issue for me are the costs involved. We could spend the money more wisely for other important things.....
So let parliament decide. They are all paid by us very handsomely.
Cheers

 

I don't care how it is done, just bloody do it.

Both these parties are playing politics over peoples lives, they should be ashamed of themselves.

Funny thing is, I think it is worth the cost. What makes the happiness of same sex couples any less important than the acknowledgement of Aboriginal people in the constitution? We spend countless millions on parliamentary pensions every year, but what? The acceptance of a large group of our own people and their happiness is not worth the cost?

I think people who argue the cost of this referendum are themselves playing politics. I can think of a long list of other less worthwhile things we waste money on.

 

It was put up by the Libs so the ALP would finally take a stand on the issue. The ALP had their chance to do something, with a lesbian front bencher and female PM they still couldn't find the guts to do it. Now the ALP can only push this wheelbarrow about trying to block the plebiscite to try and squeeze some political mileage. If you can look past that to see the real issue, then....

....you'd see that simply the best way to shut down whoever loses is to be able to clearly say 'you are the minority, we are a democracy, get over it' to them. Its as simple as that. Anything else is politicians playing with peoples lives.

If you leave it up to the parliament, then whomever loses will continue to cry that it was unfair and the issue will linger in the political domain as some folk try to reverse it.

The problem is the Libs think this is obvious and so do not realize people cant think that far on their own. So all the media has to work with is the bleating lefty weak kneed sell their mothers for a vote populists.

Face it, the Libs were the ones to make this happen, and the ALP were not, and now the ALP are trying any excuse to milk it for popular or political gain because yea, we are all too lazy to go vote and of course it does cost money as well



Now we are being told we are too immature as a nation to have the debate, well shack, we'd better keep our mouths shut and let mommy and daddy decide for us then. I say its better to do it right, get it done, and move on.

People need to stop using political point scoring for their dopamine hits, youz loosing touch with reality with all that populist point scoring stuff.

 

I totally disagree with your whole premise. 18c is NOT anti free speech, that's just what the hard right want people to believe. They want to just remove the word insult and offend. Why would they want to remove this if what they want to say is fact? Because if what they state is fact there are absolutely no issues. SP it is all about allowing people to openly slur others. Ultra conservatism operates on a purely....DIVIDE and CONQUER method.

It is utterly silly to even consider amending it to appease the loonies like Bernardi who is the face of the extreme right wing of the liberal party.

 

I was born and raised in religion. Church of England was wher it all started in my family but then transitioned to Assemblies of God. There are many other Protestants, which include many other Pentecostal denominations such as Four Square, Apostolic, Church of Christ etc etc. The TV evangelists such as Jimmy Swaggert, Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland are huge in the USA and Australia. Hillsongs although much later after my involvement are connected to the Pentecostal denomination.

Yes, I do know how Christians think, my parents were hard line conservative Church of Christ and Assemblies of God people. My grand parents were devote Church of England Christians and volunteered their time as religious instruction teachers in schools in the 70's as retirees.

Yes Protestants such as namely Pentecostal denominations were very intolerant. I spent much time around dinner table arguing Fred Nile and his protests at gay and lesbian Mardi Gras'. My sisters couldn't even consider marrying a man of a distinctly different race because the Bible apparently States somewhere that it is forbidden.

Finally, No, I wasn't trampling Catholics if you read my posts properly, I was applauding them actually. But if you are the new face of Catholicism I think I might have to change my mind.....lol!

 

Like I said - you 'other' christians are not worth mentioning. in Australia you are either Catholic or Anglican - or 'other'. People in Australia do not use the word 'protestant'.

And Jesus Christ. Church of Christ and the Assemblies of God? HA! That is hilarious. I look down on Church of England people so imagine what I think of you. Oh my God. You speak in tongues do you?


.....HA!

So you are basically like the 'evangelical' Americans are you? HAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!! And you tell people this? WTF? You should keep it to yourself.

And Hillsong isnt even a church. Where are all the Hillsong churches exactly? Hillsong is some kind of American 'evangelical' invasion machine - but the fact is that most of the people that turn up to your big Hillsong conventions are young Catholics or Church of Englands. Hillsong is not a church. It tries to act as some transcendent overchurch or something but it has no foundation. It is a joke is what it is - and you know that. In Australia people look at Hillsong and laugh because they act like American 'evangelicals'. And there is something seriously wrong with those Americans.

So what are you now anyway? A reformed Assemblies of Gods? Are you still a 'christian' or are you some kind of atheist now?

Why dont you convert to Catholicism. You said yourself that we are the best. And we certainly are. Roman Catholics belong to the one true church. We are the real deal. Roman Catholics are the only real 'christians'.

[video=youtube;8LASeWCB8J0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LASeWCB8J0[/video]

Do you know who I think are the weirdest christians in Australia though? The Church of Latter Day Saints. They are actually Mormons arent they? I used to know this LDS couple and they were swingers. That makes sense doesnt it?

Mormons have no power in Australia. Do you think that the Hillsong mission is to help the Mormons in some way? I wouldnt be shocked. Maybe the idea is to increase the 'other' religions by eating into the Anglicans and Catholics and by doing this they make 'others' more powerful and give them a better ability to push for things like polygamy.

Like I said - Hillsong is not a church and the 'others' are not even woprth mentioning in Australia. Catholics are the most powerful.

Did you know that the Catholic Church stopped Telstra from runnng a pro-gay commercial? They did. That is how powerful Catholics are in Australia. The Catholic Church threatened a boycott of telstra if they ran the ad - so telstra pulled the gay ad.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/t...e-to-pressure-from-the-catholic-church-2016-4

 

Dam, it's obvious you haven't read a thing I wrote....with an ounce of comprehension anyway!

I generally converse with everyone but you are the first person on this forum that has left me completely shaking my head. I shall leave it at that my friend.

 

[video=youtube;R2qnWwbIjDc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2qnWwbIjDc[/video]If you are a christened Catholic and you do the sacraments of communion, reconciliation and confirmation then you are Catholic for life and there is no way to get out of it. Its blood in blood out with Catholics.

You say that your parents became Assemblies of God when you were a child, so that must have made you one. I can picture you speaking in tongues with your mother and father at the Assemblies of God church. Where do you find an Assemblies of God church at anyway? So unless you have renounced your - what do they do anyway? baptize you in a river? ( - Assemblies of God membership then you still are one is what I would think. You arguing against Fred Nile does not mean anything for sure at all aprt from the fact that you are $%$%ing with me. I comprehend just fine.

And you were wrong about the Catholics werent you? Our leadership is boycotting companies that support gay marriage. Can you imagine how powerful we would be if all of you traitor 'protestants' came back to the one true church? We would rule the world.

 

People like you are why I left religion. Anyway, take your religious fanaticism to the appropriate section and stop being silly.

 

It doesn't matter if Plebiscite gets up, because MP's aren't bound by plebiscite. In this instance it could get very ugly and certainly leaves door open for government to continue play politics with issue.

Changing legislation is all about timing. Just because one wants change, it ain't going to happen unless numbers are there. The numbers are now there, which means the uterus has fully dialated and baby is ready for birthing (Gee I love analogies. This one will be hard to beat.).

if it is non binding for MP's the whole thing can be changed at any time. The only way to compulsory establish it as law is by having a referendum. In this instance it could be reversed easily by an act of parliament.

 

At this stage I think most people are in favor of same sex marriage, so we could save up to 160 million, that is a lot.....
But hey, I prove to be wrong many times, maybe its best to bring it on.
As I said, not worried to go to the polls, but that kind of money could be used for other things....
Regards

 

Personally, I don't think it will get up and we waste so much time and energy on it that a plebiscite, to my mind, is the only way to go. Get on with it and legalise it if it comes back 'yes'. If it comes back 'no' ... move on and get over it.

People either agree or disagree with it for various reasons but the constant homophobic taunts directed at those who do not agree are turning people off even wanting to bother thinking about it.

 

I think polls are unnamious enough to save us a couple of hundred million. I certainly don't want to play God over people's lives. For mind there is a level of haughtiness in wanting a plebiscite for such a topic.

If it was for taxes or Republic or for the national flag it would be completely legitimate.

 

It's a social issue and, as such, should be decided upon by the people. Whichever way it goes.

That's your opinion. Others may not give a hoot about wanting to spend the money on a plebiscite regarding the flag or becoming a Republic at this point.

We just had an election. The question should have been posed at that time.