Tim Kaine is the prime example of the hypocrisy of "progressives" when it comes to abortion. http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/10/tim_kaines_abortion_distortions.html During the debate, Kaine, a Catholic, reiterated his absurd and long-held position of, "I'm personally opposed to abortion, but I support a woman's right to choose." In order to make people feel okay about voting for a candidate who won't stand up for the defenseless, for decades now Democrats running for office have used the "personally opposed" argument when it comes to abortion. Renowned Christian thinker Robert P. George, the McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence at Princeton University, satirically (and brilliantly) indicts the "personally opposed" position: I am personally opposed to killing abortionists. However, inasmuch as my personal opposition to this practice is rooted in a sectarian (Catholic) religious belief in the sanctity of human life, I am unwilling to impose it on others who may, as a matter of conscience, take a different view. Of course, I am entirely in favor of policies aimed at removing the root causes of violence against abortionists. Indeed, I would go so far as to support mandatory one-week waiting periods, and even nonjudgmental counseling, for people who are contemplating the choice of killing an abortionist. I believe in policies that reduce the urgent need some people feel to kill abortionists while, at the same time, respecting the rights of conscience of my fellow citizens who believe that the killing of abortionists is sometimes a tragic necessity -- not a good, but a lesser evil. In short, I am moderately pro-choice. Do you suppose Senator Kaine "personally opposes" slavery? I wonder if his car is adorned with the bumper sticker, "Don't like slavery? Then don't own a slave." According to Mr. Kaine's logic, Jeffrey Dahmers cannibalism was just a "dietary choice;" Hitler and Stalin's genocide was merely a demographics choice; and as they execute apostates, members of ISIS are only exercising their "right" to religious liberty. <> When it comes to the morality of life, we as a society often stop people from "making their own decisions." What's more, we often "discriminate" when we do so. <> Mr. Kaine seems to have no problem allowing his faith to inform his decision-making as a professional when it comes to the death penalty. As the Daily Beast recently pointed out, Over the course of his career, Kaine didnt just oppose the death penalty; he worked to prevent executions by representing men facing death because they committed murders... Since his first days as a lawyer, Kaine has put in hundreds of hours, for free, to get murderers off death row. His first, formative case was [Richard Lee] Whitley's, who confessed to slashing the throat of a 63-year-old woman living in his Fairfax County neighborhood and then using two umbrellas to sexually assault her. At first, Kaine said no to defending Whitley, but then his selective hypocrite radar went off. "But then it kind of worked on me that I had said no because my feeling is, well, I say Im against the death penalty," Kaine told the Virginian-Pilot for a 2005 profile. "If I say thats my belief but I say, 'Nah, Im not going to do it,' then Im a hypocrite." In typical "progressive" fashion, they believe its fine to impose their own beliefs on people and motivate their public actions based upon their beliefs, but people who oppose them must leave their beliefs in the closet. Kaine is clearly a hypocrite, and he proves that there is no rational argument to keep religious beliefs out of the public square, and there is certainly no reason to keep religion out of the abortion debate.
No hypocrite....he didn't say persons shouldn't be punished for murder. And he didn't support persons being aborted. Anti-Choicers believe its fine to impose their own beliefs on people and motivate their public actions based upon their beliefs...while denying 50% of the population their rights.......Kaine does not advocate taking away rights.
blah .. blah .. blah .. same old rubbish that doesn't even come close to answering the real issue ... why do pro-lifers fully support the right of self-defence for all EXCEPT pregnant women .. now I know there will be a response with some airy-fairy BS like .. oh she opened her legs it's her own fault, oh she has an obligation to the fetus, oh how rotten of you to say that the fetus is injuring her when it is sooooooo innocent, oh you murderer .. but as all these (so called) arguments have been shot full of holes there really isn't any point in raking over the ashes of pro-life arguments.
Well fetuses aren't persons when abortions usually occur because they have no consciousness and no mind, and that's really the bottom line. So he is incorrect that there is anything bad about abortion.
That's not the point. The point is that Kaine applies to his public life his personal religious beliefs regarding the death penalty, while claiming people should keep their personal religious beliefs out of the abortion issue. Abortionists are hypocrites.
No hypocrite....he didn't say persons shouldn't be punished for murder. And he didn't support persons being aborted. Anti-Choicers believe"" its fine to impose their own beliefs on people and motivate their public actions based upon their beliefs""...while denying 50% of the population their rights.......Kaine does not advocate taking away rights. Do you think if you repeat a lie it'll come true some day ??? "Abortionists" are people who perform abortions.....are you sure there are posters here who perform abortion or is it just more lies?? Say, why didn't you ever take up the Abortion Debate challenge in the Debate Forum ??
You did not read the OP or the linked article. Kaine has no problem imposing his religious based view of the death penalty, but wants religion kept out of the abortion issue. That's because Christianity clearly is pro-life, and Kaine is an abortionist. He is the definition of a hypocrite. And that's why you refuse to address the issue.
I addressed it, you just can't understand it......YOU vilify Kaine because he wants to stop the death penalty, having respect for life. The death penalty involves killing a PERSON. You refuse to accept the scientific and legal fact that a fetus is not a person......that's on YOU NOT Kaine. Kaine wants to punish murderers , YOU want to punish women. You say Kaine is an abortionist....which is a LIE unless you can prove he performed abortions which is the only way he could be called an abortionist. Your refusal to use and understand English words is on YOU ...no one else.
As usual Fox pro-lifers resort to emotional hyperbole simply because they have little else to get their point across, if they did they would have no reasons to lie, misrepresent and muddy the waters with their bumper sticker retorts.
You just cannot rise above the issue high enough to see the larger issue. I guess its a problem of limited "resources". You are not worth the time....again.
Post 9 says it best.....Tim Kaine is a compassionate reasonable INTELLIGENT man ( who understands English words) .....he gets my vote and would get my vote if he ran for President....but I'll be happy he'll be the next VP
This issue is a simple one. Putting someone to death for first degree murder is considered justice. The criminal must pay for forcing his intentions onto others. Forcing women to give birth is not. Of course, you can say that no one is considering the rights of the unborn child, but there are thousands of children praying that someone would come along and adopt them. There is your chance to show the world how much you care about these precious children. Unless, of course, you are a hypocrite!
Pro illegal abortionists are hypocrites - they yap about the 'sanctity of life', but support the death penalty, war etc. (I am pro death penalty but I don't pretend life is sacred)
I suppose that might say something about Tim Kaine and certain people who are for abortion, but it doesn't say anything about the validity of the pro-abortion position. Religious beliefs don't hold validity in any situation - it would just do more harm than good to try to eliminate them. It's always possible to have the right position for the wrong reasons. In fact, I would say that the whole concept of "pro-choice" misses the point. IF the fetus were a person, choice would be irrelevant. But it's not a person, and that's the core of the issue. Self-defense is another reasonable argument, though not one I find as compelling since giving birth is not often fatal these days.
Wrong issue. Kaine claims it is fine for him to bring his religious beliefs into the public square (Congress, state govt) when it comes to the death penalty, but people should leave their religion in the closet when it comes to abortion. To "progressives", religion is fine when it agrees with them, but it should be put in the closet when it does not. Total hypocrisy.
Self defense is not an issue unless the fetus is deemed a person. Then women can use self defense to support abortion.. Now , get this straight, if you think the only harm women suffer from pregnancy is child birth please just STOP commenting at all. From the second women are pregnant their immune system is compromised and their blood pressure changes. Did you actually think that growing a fetus inside your body had NO effect?! Here it is. LEARN: Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy: •exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks) •altered appetite and senses of taste and smell •nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester) •heartburn and indigestion •constipation •weight gain •dizziness and light-headedness •bloating, swelling, fluid retention •hemmorhoids •abdominal cramps •yeast infections •congested, bloody nose •acne and mild skin disorders •skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen) •mild to severe backache and strain •increased headaches •difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping •increased urination and incontinence •bleeding gums •pica •breast pain and discharge •swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain •difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy •inability to take regular medications •shortness of breath •higher blood pressure •hair loss or increased facial/body hair •tendency to anemia •curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities •infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases) •extreme pain on delivery •hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression •continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover) Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy: •stretch marks (worse in younger women) •loose skin •permanent weight gain or redistribution •abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness •pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh) •changes to breasts •increased foot size •varicose veins •scarring from episiotomy or c-section •other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty) •increased proclivity for hemmorhoids •loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis) •higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's •newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates) Occasional complications and side effects: •complications of episiotomy •spousal/partner abuse •hyperemesis gravidarum •temporary and permanent injury to back •severe scarring requiring later surgery (especially after additional pregnancies) •dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele) •pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies) •eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death) •gestational diabetes •placenta previa •anemia (which can be life-threatening) •thrombocytopenic purpura •severe cramping •embolism (blood clots) •medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby) •diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles •mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication) •serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis) •hormonal imbalance •ectopic pregnancy (risk of death) •broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone") •hemorrhage and •numerous other complications of delivery •refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease •aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures) •severe post-partum depression and psychosis •research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors •research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy •research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease Less common (but serious) complications: •peripartum cardiomyopathy •cardiopulmonary arrest •magnesium toxicity •severe hypoxemia/acidosis •massive embolism •increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction •molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease (like a pregnancy-induced cancer) •malignant arrhythmia •circulatory collapse •placental abruption •obstetric fistula More permanent side effects: •future infertility •permanent disability •death.
Kaine never claimed any such thing, just another of your huge LIES... and..... Gee, he'll be elected anyway That's the fun part... I'm a progressive and YES, religion is fine IF IT doesn't interfere with other's rights Anti-Choicers believe its fine to impose their own beliefs on people and motivate their public actions based upon their beliefs...while denying 50% of the population their rights.......Kaine does not advocate taking away rights like the rightist Anti-Choicers advocate Tim Kaine is a compassionate reasonable INTELLIGENT man ( who understands English words) .....he gets my vote and would get my vote if he ran for President....but I'll be happy he'll be the next VP
This is probably the third time we've had this exchange. I was aware of most of those before you said it the first time. And again my words were "not often fatal" NOT "no effect." Unless it's almost certain death, your argument is not going to be persuasive to people who believe the fetus is a person. So as always, it comes down to that. And fortunately a fetus is not a person until more than halfway through pregnancy.
I am not a fan of Kaine or religion. He is entitled to his beliefs on his own time. The law of the land is that murders get executed and women have the right to choose. His beliefs are not relevant unless the people share them.
You said CHILD BIRTH was not often fatal. Child birth is not pregnancy. Pregnancy does NOT have to be fatal for a woman to use self defense. If someone attacks you and HARMS you , you have the right to use deadly force. And, NO, someone slapping you or bumping you doesn't mean you can kill them(I'll nip the usual crap in the bud) Pregnancy is not a mere slap or bump and continues for 9 months.
Actually choice would not be irrelevant, choice is a part of consent .. a person chooses to consent or not. What is irrelevant is whether the foetus is a person or not, that status or lack of it only changes the direction of the debate not the outcome. The foetus as a person actually would result in the removal of all abortion restrictions and render the state in the position of having to pay for them.
Religion should have no say in ANY state decisions whether it agrees with the decision or not .. so that blows another of your arguments apart.
Whether it persuades people or not doesn't matter, I am always surprised by the people of a country that defends its self-defence right so strongly who don't even know what that right means. ... btw not saying you don't know what it means ... it is a misconception that the right to defend oneself is reliant on the threat to life, serious injury and loss of liberty are also justifications for the use a deadly force in self-defence, and pregnancy more than meets the requirement of serious injury .. in fact it is already deemed as such, equivalent to a broken limb or a gun shot wound, in some cases.
Very wrong. Kaine opposes the death penalty - he opposes the law of the land - based on his religious belief, and he acts on that belief through his political position. But he believes people who oppose abortion based on their religious belief should not be allowed to speak.
