'Nazi Grandma' sent to jail again for Holocaust denial

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by SamSkwamch, Oct 12, 2016.

  1. SamSkwamch

    SamSkwamch Banned

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    This is absolutely sickening.

    Ursula Haverbeck-Wetzel, 87, has been sentenced by a district court in Bad Oeynhausen, North Rhine-Westphalia, to 11 months imprisonment without parole, Süddeutsche Zeitung reported on Tuesday.
    https://www.thelocal.de/20161012/87-year-old-holocaust-denier-sentenced-nazis

    Your historical beliefs should not matter here. Anyone who stands for free expression should be outraged. This is the women now serving 11 months in a cage with no possibility of parole:

    [​IMG]

    The persecution of people for explaining historical truths will not stop until we make it so.
     
  2. Eadora

    Eadora Well-Known Member

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    .
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin.
    If you're really in favor of free speech, then you're in favor of freedom of
    speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you're not in favor
    ............................................................................................. of free speech

    ................................................................................. Noam Chomsky
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    If you can't fight a Lie with the Truth and need to resort to Censorship
    perhaps you should look more closely at what you believe to be the Truth

    Perhaps it is YOU who is the Liar
    .
     
  3. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What idiot would deny the holocaust? She should be sent to a mental hospital
     
  4. Mackithius

    Mackithius Well-Known Member

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    That's not advocating for free speech.
     
  5. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Germany is not the United States. They don't adhere to our constitution. Glad I helped clear up your confusion.
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Being an idiot is not a crime . if it was 90% of the population would be in Jail/mental hospital.

    When we start stifling freedom of speech (san's yelling fire in a crowded theater) chances are that the next Holocaust is just around the corner.

    This anti semetic xenophobe is going to die soon anyway. Why give her a platform ... which is exactly what imprisoning her has done.
     
  7. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I cannot speak for what is, or isn't, a crime in Germany. They do not adhere to our Constitution.
     
  8. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In the real Army in which I served, the freedom to openly debate historical frauds or realities was one of the Freedoms I believed I was helping/fighting to protect....... not sending individuals to "Re-Education Camps" which seems to be so popular among individuals who lack the intellect, education & courage to debate issues openly & civilly.
     
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most western democracies have adopted the same (or similar) principles of classical liberalism, the Rule of Law, and so on.

    Many European nations do a better job of adhering to the principles on which the USA was founded (Individual rights and freedoms "Above" the legitimate authority of Gov't) than we do. In many respects, Germany is one of those countries.

    Inciting hate is a tough one ... and is in kind of a grey area. Can the state show that some this woman's writings defacto caused some group to act against Jews ? I highly doubt it and even if there is strong evidence that it did... one of the principles of the Rule of law is that one person is not to be punished for the crime of another.

    Last time I checked Germany's legal system was steeped in the Rule of Law.
     
  10. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In the real Army which I serve, we don't operate under the constitution, we operate under the Uniform Code of Military Justice where our speech is limited under law.

    What Army did you serve in? Sweden?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Different in Germany. It's a touchy subject when your country slaughters millions of jews. I can see their frustration with the Nazis.
     
  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I get it. As I said this is a grey area and to be honest I have not gotten into the nitty gritty details.

    That said - jailing someone for expressing their beliefs seems to be dangerously close to sliding down a slippery slope.
     
  12. SamSkwamch

    SamSkwamch Banned

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    Human rights in Germany are protected extensively by the Grundgesetz which is their constitution and guarantees all rights from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of which free political speech is a cornerstone. Glad I helped clear up your confusion.
     
  13. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    The woman has viciously slandered millions of dead people, continuing the cruel and unjustified attacks on them by her kind and compounding the awful crimes against them. Those who deny the Holocaust are as guilty as those who did it. She should be executed.
     
  14. SamSkwamch

    SamSkwamch Banned

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    Hitler and Stalin both executed folks for speech they disagreed with.
     
  15. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Except that deniers do lack the intellect, education and courage to openly and honestly debate the "issue" which really isn't one at all except in their minds as some twisted kind of justification and desired amplification of their hatreds.

    And isn't it odd that the nations that were most effected by the holocaust have laws that specifically define that claiming gassing and industrialize murder did not occur are illegal and punishable. The laws are very specific of what constitutes the crime, since those countries also have "freedom of expression" enshrined in their constitutions or facsimile of such.
     
  16. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not according to their court system.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yes, you make a good point. I'm just arguing the OP's falsities and not your idea that it's a slippery slope. Which I agree.
     
  17. Mackithius

    Mackithius Well-Known Member

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    So you only think US citizens deserve free speech. got it
     
  18. SamSkwamch

    SamSkwamch Banned

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    This is what you do because this is what the story tellers brainwashed you to believe.

    You have been on multiple threads stating this exact nonsense while providing proof of nothing. Maybe you don't even know the difference between a statement and proof, but that really is not here nor there.

    Let's not forget your last effort where you posted a video of a moron, claiming to be an archeologist, digging up bones in clearly marked Christian cemetery and claimed it was Jewish remains from mass graves at Treblinka. The truth was that she used sophisticated equipment and found NOTHING at Treblinka so dug in the Christian cemetery outside of Treblinka and just went with it.

    The whole thing rings of toolishness.
     
  19. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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  20. SamSkwamch

    SamSkwamch Banned

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    From what I have read, she simply points out that Auschwitz was a labor camp and that there was no mass gassing of Jews there.
     
  21. Thehumankind

    Thehumankind Well-Known Member

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    I think the prime rationale is that it will incite sedition,
    not to proliferate skinheads, I suppose.
     
  22. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    <Mod Edit>

    Let's not forget that it wasn't my last effort, and I posted a documentary, where they actually catch on film the finding of those tiles. The two archeologist then speculate on what the symbols on the tiles MAY be. You wouldn't know this but real scientists might offer up an initial SPECULATION, but that isn't even remotely approaching a conclusion.

    And lets also not forget that your "found nothing" claim is nothing more than an unmitigated specious hateful LIE. Just the kind you like to think of as the truth.


    here is the official preliminary findings report
    http://blogs.staffs.ac.uk/archaeology/projects/holocaust-landscapes/genius-and-genocide/finding-treblinka/project-results/preliminary-results-of-the-survey-at-treblinka-ii-the-extermination-camp/


    Calling Caroline Sturdy-Colls a moron is definitely moronic.
    But calling the incompetent amateur "scientists" of denialism like leuchter, ball, rudolph, cole, etc morons is a actually a precise scientific description.
     
  23. SamSkwamch

    SamSkwamch Banned

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    LOL, yes, in addition to digging up bones in a clearly marked Christian cemetery outside of Treblinka, the moron claiming to be an archeologist found bathroom tiles from a bathroom.

    What a shocker! Awesome find... yawn.
     
  24. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG]

    its a sad day for humanity when hatred trumps truth.
     
  25. DrewBedson

    DrewBedson Active Member

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    Not free expression Sam, she discounts all historic all evidence just so she can hate you because you are a Jew. Do you think it is right for everybody to hate Sam Skwamch because he is Jew? I don't but evidently she does as she perpetrates the myth that the most heavily documented event in history is a lie perpetrated by Jews to milk money out of people. But you believe that she is all about freedom of speech and this has nothing against Jews at all.

    As a non Jew I believe that when the day comes when Holocaust Deniers become pro Jewish and advocate against antisemitism in all it's hideous shapes and forms and support the nation of Israel to exist but, simply pursue a minor fact such as 'were there six million killed or was it five million nine hundred ninety nine thousand nine hundred and ninety nine' rather than trying to prove ho w the Jews are lying as an entire ethnoreligious group then we can come together.

    But for the moment, this woman hates Jews and wishes to propagate the persecution of you and yours. You take a rather strange position for one who is so proud of being a Jew, almost like you would be happier if the herd was thinned out a bit.
     

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