Trump Debate

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by CrazyAl, Nov 11, 2016.

  1. CrazyAl

    CrazyAl New Member

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    I am a man and I have always been pro life. Why? Because I think that if it is my sperm and I had sex with a consenting female I should have a say in what happens to my child.
    I don't think that just because a woman carries a child for 9 months it should be her choice. I think there are instances where abortions are appropriate, but the law ,right now, doesn't discern these different
    situations. Therefore abortion has become birth control if you screw up. The abortion rate for rape and incest, I guarantee, is very low compared to the accidental pregnancy. Abortion is just cold. You can take the religious
    route or you can take the morality route. It doesn't matter. If we don't even have morality we are no better than the animals. I am reminded of Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom.
     
  2. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I did not get past the first sentence - why, if she is truly consenting are you not using contraception? Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy. Are you assuming that just because a woman consents to have sex with you that you can "sow your wild oats" and then claim rights over HER life???
     
  3. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    Once you give the woman your sperm, and assuming one of the little guys finds his way into an egg, the woman's body is now making your child. It won't be done until birth which is when you take "possession" of "your" child, figuratively speaking. During the pregnancy, when it is the woman's body exclusively, it is not your child. It is only hers. That's because putting your sperm inside of her is not the same thing as planting your personal flag in her uterus. You are a guest, and the woman remains Lord of the manor. That is why it is wise not to let your sperm get away from you until you are with someone that shares your views on the subject and/or is ready to start a family with you.

    Yes, it's not equal say across the board during pregnancy. But neither is pregnancy itself. While the mother is pregnant, because she is the only one who IS pregnant, she is also the only one who has control. After birth caring for the offspring can be done by both parents, or people who aren't even the parents at all. That is when your rights begin.

    Since you know this beforehand, use this knowledge to guide your sexual choices. With caution, good judgment, and good communication, or just plain old abstinence, you should never have to find yourself in a situation where a sexual partner becomes pregnant before you are ready to have children with her.
     
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  4. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Then please find someone who shares your views before taking the risk. I have never understood how a man, or anyone else, thinks they can take control of a woman's womb just because they had a piece of themselves inside her for a while.
     
  5. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    You: """ just because a woman carries a child for 9 months it should be her choice""

    So you want the man to be able to force the woman to get an abortion and/or force her to give birth because he owns her now that he had sex with her????

    Explain....

    "Just" ? :) Being pregnant and delivering a kid is not "just", it's a big deal, it affects a woman for the rest of her life, causes much pain, can kill and permanently damage a woman's body.... NO MAN ever goes through the same thing. Denigrating what pregnancy is and what it means is a misogynist's first mistake.





    Just because a woman gets pregnant it doesn't mean her body belongs to anyone else.



    Why did you title this Trump Debate.......because there's so many different views on abortion just like Trump has so many different views on abortion depending on who he's talking to?

    Has he repealed RvW yet ? :)
     
  6. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    In all probability a very small piece for a very short while:angel:
     
  7. Zeffy

    Zeffy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Since it's the woman's body that is impacted by the pregnancy, it's HER choice and nobody else's. If you are so against abortion, it would behoove you to find out her intentions before unzipping your pants.

    Your subject line has nothing to do with your OP.
     
  8. CrazyAl

    CrazyAl New Member

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    MY wife and I have two girls 15 mons apart. They were not accidents. My wife has a clotting disorder and had to have a daily injection during both pregnancies to keep the kids, and her, alive. I gave her every injection. 9 Months is a brief time compared to lifespan. My wife has a demanding job which has left me with a lot of responsibility. She carried them 9 mons and I have been carrying them ever since. They are 6 and 7. They are exceptional. It has been the hardest most thankless job I have ever tried to do. Therefore, when you realize I have taken it seriously I should have a say so. Its not like I screwed her and left. I actually care about my family. Thanks for your response!
     
  9. CrazyAl

    CrazyAl New Member

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    Honestly , when you are married, in the heat of the moment you take a chance and it is not like you don't know the possible outcome or will have a difficult time deciding whether you will have to abort. Ask the same people who don't use protection and are not married at the abortion clinic the same question. I have had a vasectomy, TMI! Two kids and IM done. No chemicals or death to an embryo. Shootin Blanks Ha Ha
     
  10. CrazyAl

    CrazyAl New Member

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    While I agree with some of what you said. 9 Mons is actually a very short time and while there is pain during childbirth if I am serious about keeping my child I should be able to. After the fact the Mother will probably want visitation and some kind of restitution.
     
  11. CrazyAl

    CrazyAl New Member

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    Thank you for you polite return. Women are in control because they have to accept the penis. You have to think about moments of passion. That's where we go wrong. Its nobodies fault exactly.
     
  12. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    This is just assuming that taking a risk means one must abide by the outcome of taking that risk, sorry that isn't the way it works ... even a criminal injured doing a crime will receive medical attention for those injuries, yet you want to force a woman to endure the injuries pregnancy imposes on her against her will. As to your story of you wife, congratulations you just demonstrated what being pro choice is all about, the ability to decide what injuries and burden you a prepared to accept. I asked you before would you accept your wife being forced to abort, if not why do you think it is ok to force a female to give birth?
     
  13. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    If the women are in control then should they not be in control as to whether they accept pregnancy or not?
     
  14. CrazyAl

    CrazyAl New Member

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    I hope this is not in duplicate. If a woman says no, its rape after that.
     
  15. CrazyAl

    CrazyAl New Member

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  16. CrazyAl

    CrazyAl New Member

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    I read what you said about five times in your respect. I have no clue how you can compare pregnancy to medical care in jail. Pregnancy is not permanent except for the childrens lives. If you are trying to compare being shot in a bank robbery to giving life in a pregnancy.....?????? While it is possible to think that some significant others would try to force abortion, that is not my stance. I personally would be more likely to concede to abortion being a father, but I would actually have to live with the decision as well as the woman. I don't know where you get forced to abort. While I am prolife, Noone, clinics, doctors, government, males can or have the ability to force abortion and never will.
    Are you male or female? I cant tell. It matters as you can imagine.
     
  17. CrazyAl

    CrazyAl New Member

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    While I think men have a vote women do have the biggest say so. They also have the biggest conscience to live with. BIG RESPONSIBILITY!
     
  18. CrazyAl

    CrazyAl New Member

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    I didn't respond to forced abortion. To my knowledge that has never happened.
     
  19. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    You did NOT use your body to sustain the life of another human, YOU did not risk death by being pregnant and EVERY pregnancy carries the risk of death, YOU didn't go through 9 months of the pain and damage done to women's bodies with pregnancy but like a typical man think giving someone a shot every day is a GWEAT BIG HARDSHIP...poor baby, your body recovered that tough ordeal but your wife's never will.


    Maybe someday you could explain what the sob story has to do with the post of mine you quoted...

    You didn't address or refute one word !


    You: """ just because a woman carries a child for 9 months it should be her choice""

    So you want the man to be able to force the woman to get an abortion and/or force her to give birth because he owns her now that he had sex with her????

    Explain....

    "Just" ? Being pregnant and delivering a kid is not "just", it's a big deal, it affects a woman for the rest of her life, causes much pain, can kill and permanently damage a woman's body.... NO MAN ever goes through the same thing. Denigrating what pregnancy is and what it means is a misogynist's first mistake.





    Just because a woman gets pregnant it doesn't mean her body belongs to anyone else.



    Why did you title this Trump Debate.......because there's so many different views on abortion just like Trump has so many different views on abortion depending on who he's talking to?

    Has he repealed RvW yet ?
     
  20. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    WTF ?!
     
  21. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    IF you want to force women to give birth it's a short hop on the "eliminate Women's Rights Express to force abortions....Do you think if the government takes control of women's reproduction they can't decide to force abortions, too....why NOT!???

    The new administration has NO respect for women so it's quite possible...
     
  22. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    I am not comparing pregnancy to medical care in jail, I am pointing out that your comment of "in the heat of the moment you take a chance and it is not like you don't know the possible outcome" is basically saying if you take the risk you must suffer the consequences and that is simply not the truth. The assumption of risk can, and is, often tied into contributory negligence where the actions of a person can bring harm to themselves but even so those people who consent to risk do not lose the right to be free of non consensual injuries from others (I make the assumption here that you consider the unborn to be persons from conception). While consent to sexual intercourse merely causes the risk that pregnancy will occur, consent to expose oneself to risk that one will be injured by a private party is not a legal proxy for consent to the actual injuries should they occur. On the contrary, the law recognizes the exact opposite. The law instead recognizes in many ways how people can consent to factual, necessary causes of accidents and injuries imposed by other people without consenting to the legal causes of accidents. The "mere fact that one is willing to incur a risk that conduct in a deliberate violent act will be committed", for example, "does not mean one is willing for such conduct to be committed" - Source : W. Page Keeton, Dan B. Dobbs, Robert E. Keeton, and David G. Owen; Prosser and Keeton on the Law of Torts, 5th Ed, Page 113
    A woman has a sexual relationship with a man and a pregnancy relationship with a fetus and as such her relationship with the fetus, as a person, is distinct from her sexual relationship with a man. Her body integrity and liberty must, therefore, be assessed in the context of two relationships, each with a different private party, not one relationship with one private party.
    A woman must have the right to consent to the way in which a man necessarily intrudes upon her body and liberty when he has a sexual relationship with her, and so, too, must she have a comparable right to consent to how a fetus necessarily intrudes on her body and liberty when it has a pregnancy relationship with her, and while people may hold philosophical and religious views that connect consent to sexual relationships with consent to pregnancy relationships such beliefs do not alter the reality that each of these relationships involves different private parties, men and fetuses, respectively. For this reason, women must consent to two relationships, not one, that are involved in their experience of reproduction.

    Point is, if you advocate for state involvement in maintaining pregnancy against the consent of the individual then the opposite is also true, that the state can involve itself to the point where it forces abortion without the consent of the individual.

    MY sex isn't really relevant to the discussion, whether I am male or female doesn't change the arguments ... BTW I am male.
     
  23. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    No men cannot have a vote, they can certainly offer their opinion and desires on the issue, they cannot impose their will onto the female and by far the women who do have abortions report a sense of relief.

    Whether it is a big responsibility or not, it isn't your responsibility.
     
  24. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    Once you donate your sperm to a woman, it's not yours any more.


    Her body, her choice.


    You can think what you like.As it doesn't make a lot of sense, it's not likely to influence policy.
     
  25. Zeffy

    Zeffy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do you hate women so much that you want us forced to go through pregnancy and childbirth against our will?
     

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