Professor Timothy Snyder: Kyivan Rus' has nothing to do with "Russia"

Discussion in 'History & Past Politicians' started by litwin, Jan 2, 2017.

  1. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    [video=youtube;AIO699Dhh2Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIO699Dhh2Y[/video]
    is time to take down of the last state narratives, self proclaimed "Russia"(ulus of Juchi) has stolen GDL, and Ukraine heritages in 18c. today feel threatened not just by academic world by even own intellectuals. what self proclaimed "Russia"(ulus of Juchi) is gonna do, when the truth is impossible to hide anymore?
     
  2. RUS

    RUS Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    When in Kiev came the Vikings, there was not Ukrainians or Russian. Here's what he said here. 1:30
     
  3. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    what do we see here? [​IMG]
     
  4. RUS

    RUS Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    as a minaret. Anyway, this is not the dome of the church.
     
  5. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    no it is not a @church , guess the city?
     
  6. RUS

    RUS Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Constantinople, but
    Go about your topic. On what grounds made this assumption?
     
  7. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,318
    Likes Received:
    456
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Kievan Rus' is claimed as their cultural heritage by the modern peoples of Belarus, Ukraine and Russia but neither country can claim exclusive ownership of Kievan Rus' cultural heritage. Kievan Rus' was known as the "land of the Rus" (Рѹ́сьскаѧ землѧ), uniting the majority of East Slavic tribes, from whom the modern peoples of Belarus, Ukraine and Russia are descended. The Rus’ were Varangians (Vikings) who carried Haplogroup I1a, which is frequent among the easternmost Russian populations.

     
  8. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Belarus yes Ukraine yes but whats your Ulus of Juchi has to do with Kiev Rus, name the Muscovite institutions which were in Kiev rus too? what was your Moscow during the Kiev rus times ))) LOL

    [​IMG]

    ps what we do see here?)
     
  9. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,318
    Likes Received:
    456
    Trophy Points:
    83
    These coins were issued by Dmitry Ivanovich Donskoy, who is known for building the Moscow Kremlin and defeating the Tatars. The two maps below further show that the genetic map of 14 Russian populations based on frequencies of eight haplogroups overlaps with the map of Kievan Rus'.

    [​IMG]
    Principalities of Kievan Rus', 1054-1132

    [​IMG]
    Figure 5. Synthetic Maps of the Russian Gene Pool

    The synthetic maps25 were constructed from the correlation matrix as described in 26. Maps A and B are based on frequencies of eight haplogroups in 14 Russian populations; data are from Table 2.

    (A) The first synthetic map of the Y chromosomal variation. The interpolated frequency distribution maps of individual haplogroups were created, and then the principal components (synthetic maps) were calculated from these interpolated distributions.

    (B) The map of the first principal component of the Y chromosomal variation. The principal components were calculated from the raw data in Statistica 6.0 software, and then the values were interpolated so that the map was obtained. Comparing maps A and B allowed an estimation of possible artifacts caused in the map A by the initial interpolation.

    (C) The first synthetic map of the classical markers variation. The map is based on frequencies of 35 alleles of 13 loci, studied on average in 39 Russian populations; data came from the Russian Gene Pool databank (see Web Resources).
     
  10. RUS

    RUS Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    1)So what? This is as it should be, because Muscow Rus was conquered by the Horde.

    2) I remind you that Lithuania did not make their money when it was conquered by the "Moscow" and was part of the USSR. Lithuania has used Russian money. And so what?What is the conclusion of this you do?

    Well.My question remains in force.

    On what grounds made this assumption? That Kyivan Rus' has nothing to do with "Russia".

    /
     
  11. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    "Muscow Rus was conquered by the Horde" has never existed , "Moscow" before mongols made it their tax station was an ugro - finish fishing village
     
  12. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    LOL., defended from himself? cos he was a mongol by himself , in high rank - a beklerbek
     
  13. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,318
    Likes Received:
    456
    Trophy Points:
    83
    [​IMG]
    Vintage illustration of Dmitry Ivanovich Donskoy (1350-1389) published in Moscow, Russia

    The Mongols only demanded tribute and conscripts from Russia without directly ruling the country. It was a form of indirect colonial rule currently imposed on Japan by the United States and Japan does not have an American ruler. Mongol rulers were not physically in Russia and they hand-picked the Russian nobility to collect tribute on their behalf. Some Japanese prime ministers were also hand-picked by the CIA in the 1950s to work for Washington's interests.

     
  14. RUS

    RUS Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    I wrote - Moscow Russia, that it is clear what kind of earth I'm talking about.
    In 1237, Moscow was a small town, and the land of the future of the Moscow principality called Vladimir Rus. In the capital city of Vladimir. ( but Vladimir Rus nobody knows here.)

    Cling to words - that's all you can in this thread. :)
    To substantiate your assumption that ..That Kyivan Rus' has nothing to do with "Russia".. - you can not.

    /
     
  15. RUS

    RUS Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    He was a "beklerbek" as Lithuanian "pareigūnas" ( an officer ) " Bendra maršalas" was "Генерал, Маршал" ( General Marshal) when the conquered Lithuania was part of the USSR. :)
     
  16. RUS

    RUS Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Incidentally, the Russian Army ranks are the same as in Britain and America.
    Lieutenant,Captain, Major, General, Marshal. You drew the conclusion that the Russian Army are the British and Americans?:smile:
     
  17. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    boy, do you know what mean for an European country your afro- Asian occupation? [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]https://www.google.se/search?q=gulag+drawings&client=firefox-b&sa=X&biw=1024&bih=625&tbm=isch&imgil=2uwd1-lvgnGtJM%253A%253BVai8sPge1YnFjM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.artbook.com%25252F9780956356246.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=2uwd1-lvgnGtJM%253A%252CVai8sPge1YnFjM%252C_&usg=__ISUVYF5XPqLkyUxLzNT6Vrvh2QI%3D&ved=0ahUKEwi3iaG2r97RAhUBuywKHWzcCa4QyjcIMw&ei=GyqJWPePN4H2sgHsuKfwCg#imgrc=_
     
  18. RUS

    RUS Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    I know.

    And I know that among those who are  pictured with the bludgeons, there were also Lithuanians.The Lithuanians did it with pleasure.
    I know that Lithuanians (and all Baltic) killed all its Jews, when the war started in 1941. And when the SS came to Lithuania, then they did not have the work with the Jews.

    I replied, but these your question is not related to the name of your theme.

    .
     
  19. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    K. Marx:
    http://marxists.anu.edu.au/archive/marx/works/1857/russia/ch04.htm
    [​IMG][/QUOTE]
     
  20. RUS

    RUS Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    He is the authority for you?:smile:

    Are You a Marxist?
    [​IMG]

    Are You a communist?[​IMG]

    /
     
  21. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  22. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    16,500
    Likes Received:
    8,467
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    finno-ugraic you mean...isn't the word.."Russia"..a finnish term or derives from Finnish?
     
  23. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,318
    Likes Received:
    456
    Trophy Points:
    83
    The genetic evidence suggests that it was a Finno-Ugric man who founded Kievan Rus', whose clan was originally from Finland. The Rurik clan belonged to haplogroup N1c1 or N-Y10931 (1,750 ybp) and its date of origin largely coincides with the emergence of the Varangians in Western Russia. Its descendant subclades such as N-VL11 and N-VL12 (900 ybp) are only found in Russia. The Y4338 subclade is named "Para-Rurik" (Russian: парарюрикидов), which was originally formed 2,900 years ago in Finland. The Varangians had been roaming around the areas north of the Black Sea, engaging in piracy and mercenary activities, long before Rurik's supposed arrival to the Slavic hearland. The Slavs and the Varangian Rus' admixed for many centuries and the Varangians may have gone native in region by the time when the Rurik dynasty was established. Haplogroup N1 reaches a maximum frequency of approximately 95% in the Nenets and Nganassans, two Uralic tribes in northern Siberia.


    [​IMG]
     
  24. RUS

    RUS Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    You're right.
    It is a correct map. I talked about Herberstein.
    In the circle of this is the land on which the Russians lived. (Migrants from the Kyivan Rus.)

    [​IMG]
     
    ThirdTerm likes this.
  25. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Bingo, LOL. do you get some money for your nonsense posts?
     

Share This Page