In the cases of rape, incest, and the possible loss of the mothers life, including most birth defects that an abortion be given. Also proof of these conditions be a prerequisite under a new law. Also if found that if a prospective mother is abusing her right to an abortion, privilege revocation and a fine should be levied on that person. Adoption and no questions asked drop offs have created better options than abortion. Abstinence should be taught early on in public schools and families perpetually.
Granny wantin' to know... ... is dat Lawrence like in... ... Lawrence Olivier, or Lawrence Fishburn... ... or Steve Lawrence or Jennifer Lawrence?
Could you explain to me how an abortion due to rape or incest differs from an abortion due to consensual sex? The procedure and outcome are exactly the same. How does a woman ( no one is a mother unless they've given birth) "abuse" her right to abortion? It is not a "privilege". Adoption? No, no woman is under any obligation to disrupt her life , suffer physical damage, and financial ruin to provide someone else with a kid. In case you haven't noticed the history of the world, preaching abstinence just does not work. Sex education, access to safe affordable birth control and the clinics that provide those services work much better. Read the thread : Why I am Against Abortion in Most Cases........
An abortion due to rape isn't because of promiscuity the opposite of abstinence. And I feel that if a child is brought into this world with physical or mental ailments they are as much of a burden as a blessing. Women who abuse their abortion rights do exist and the affordable healthcare act says most Americans have to contribute paying for them, that isn't fair. In my case education on abstention has worked as well as many others. And the working idea of safe drop zones isn't for the benefit of the child's future family it certainly is for the benefit of that unwanting mothers prospective success and health in life. It is a better option than to carry the possible burden of canceling a potential life.
It is fortunate that what "You Feel" is generally understood to be ridiculous and dismissed out of hand.
Whoa! WHERE exactly did I say there is no difference between rape and consensual sex? Answer : NO WHERE. Here is what I posted : Quote Originally Posted by FoxHastings View Post Could you explain to me how an abortion due to rape or incest differs from an abortion due to consensual sex? The procedure and outcome of either A BO R T I O N are exactly the same.
Exactly what? Did you finally figure out the English sentence I wrote or what, exactly? BTW, Could you explain to me how an abortion due to rape or incest differs from an abortion due to consensual sex? No Anti-Choicer ever has. Or do you now see that an abortion is the same for both rape and consensual sex so those who are against abortion but want to allow abortion for pregnancy due to rape are ONLY interested in punishing women for having consensual sex.
Could you explain to me how an abortion due to rape or incest differs from an abortion due to consensual sex? The procedure and outcome are exactly the same. How does a woman ( no one is a mother unless they've given birth) "abuse" her right to abortion? It is not a "privilege". You are free to abstain from sex as long as you like but sex is normal and healthy and as the entire history of the world proves , preaching abstinence doesn't work. Not being able to accept facts doesn't mean they'll go away...
An abortion is always an abortion, just like a killed man is always a killed man. However, killing someone in self-defence is not the same as murdering someone. So the terms are anti-choice and anti-life now? Hmmm. Also, I would really appriciate if you could stop handing me labels I myself do not identify with. It is a highly dishonest practise that has no place in a serious debate. What the absolute f*ck?
Why is one abortion self defense but the other abortion(the exact same procedure with the exact same outcome) murder? I never called you an Anti-Choicer, I said "No Anti-Choicer ever has." ...and no one else has either. IF a person thinks abortion is OK if the woman has been raped but not OK if the woman had consensual sex they obviously think the woman who had consensual sex has no rights and must be punished for having consensual sex. If not, then why allow the woman who has been raped to have an abortion?
For the same reason shooting a burglar in the face is self-defense whereas shooting a random jogger in the park in the face is murder (exact same procedure, with exact same outcome). Anyone old enough to have sex is old enough to understand the whole thing about "the bees and the flowers" and therefore is fully aware of what they are putting themselves into and the risks that comes with it - If you consent to have unprotected sex, you consent to having children too. Thus, having an abortion here is to be seen as irresponsible and disgusting. Rape is, by definition, non-consensual sex. If rape results in pregnancy, it is - thus - not irresponsible to have an abortion. Nonetheless, abortion is - for me - always to be seen as murder because that is what it is. At the same time, however, I am not saying it should be illegalised either - have as many abortions you want to. I do not care, but I will keep shunning behaviors I deem irresponsible. As you were quoting me, I assumed you were implying it and directing it towards me. Sorry. Having children is the biological purpose of sex. It is a gift and not a punishment. If you want sex solely for pleasure there is something called birth control that is almost 100% safe. F-ck do I know? Anyone is allowed to do whatever tney want. This does not mean that I think everything is acceptable though.
Now, if only you could explain what that has to do with abortion. WHY is one abortion murder but the other self defense? No, consent to one act is not consent to any other. That's your opinion and as long as you don't try to force others to accept your opinion, all's good. In my opinion having a kid you don't want and/or can't afford is irresponsible but I have no intention of taking away a woman's right to give birth if she chooses.. That's your opinion but it is good to see you don't use the "it's a precious life! " argument. Go ahead....but no one will notice. It may be the biological purpose but it's also done for fun and mental health....sorry for you that you don't know that. . Yes, and if a woman thinks it's a gift then she is free to decide to accept it. If the woman considers it a punishment she is free to have an abortion. FORCING women to have a kid because they had consensual sex IS punishing the woman for having consensual sex. Nope, there are few that are 100% effective and safe. The best are too expensive for most women. AND women are under NO obligation to use BC. ] Legal abortion is acceptable to most Americans...
By the end of my post I clearly stated that abortion is always to be seen as murder no matter what; Consenting to drink a bottle of vodka is not consenting to get drunk, but it is the natural - or at least most probable - result. Never claimed I was sharing anything but my very own opinion either. I completely agree and that is why I also see unprotected sex when you cannot afford- or do not want a child as irresponsible. Explain to me why one thing is not a life when it is inside a woman, but when the very same thing comes out her vagina it is a life. Apparently you notice. And that is where contraception comes in. Agree. [QUOTR]FORCING women to have a kid because they had consensual sex IS punishing the woman for having consensual sex.[/QUOTE] I never said that. Condoms+birth control+"day-after pill" in combo will be like 200% effective. If you are too poor to buy a condom, you should not have sex anyways. Get hold of your life first, get a job or something and then "have fun" (goes for both sexes). Yes they are. If they don't want kids then they should. Have it "illegally" if you want too. I do not really care as I fully and completely support the concept of self-ownership. You can do whatever you want to your body. Also I am from Sweden and i am certain abortion is far more accepted hete than in Bible thumbing and Christianly zealous Murica.
[/QUOTE] You screwed up the quotes so I'll just state the facts. Murder is the ILLEGAL taking of a life of a person. Therefore abortion is not murder. Consent to sex is not consent to anything else. I NEVER said at any time that the fetus inside the woman is not life. I posted, ""That's your opinion but it is good to see you don't use the "it's a precious life! " argument."" SEE ! READ I did NOT say anything about it not being life. I think you must have an English grammar/language problem. You have misrepresented so much of what I posted I may report you. Oh, please DO show me the law that says women are obligated take birth control......it's just your fantasy. I do adore your simplistic, unrealistic ""If you are too poor to buy a condom, you should not have sex anyways"" Yes, how easy it is to give advice.....especially advice that hasn't worked for a few thousand years.....but I didn't expect you to notice.... If women don't want a kid they can just have an abortion and if you shun THEM, THEY won't notice ....or care
I replied to post 15 with post 16......you must be having more trouble with English....and can't respond.... Oh, please DO show me the law that says women are obligated take birth control......
Again, using your own argumentation technique; why is it not murder to "delete" a fetus, but murder to "delete" the life of the very same creature when it has exited the womb? Consent to jump off a cliff is not consent to anything else. No one who is asked to jump off a cliff and does so deserves to die! What the actual flying horse? Who said anything about law? I could report you for being a smug. It is not the first time, but unlike you I do not cry over random strangers, on the other side of the globe not agreeing with me and being rude on the Internet. Yeaaaaaaah. Good. Then let me shun them and stop replying to my posts. - - - Updated - - - You edited it and it is not the first time you mess up the quote-function. My English is better than your Swedish will ever be.
Why would I ever need or want to speak Swedish ????? You seem to be flailing all over , still haven't made a point. I'll take one of the issues you can't seem to understand. You say that women are under obligation to use birth control but you can't seem to show why. There is no law that says women are obligated to take birth control and they certainly aren't because you say so So from what dark orifice did you pull that idea? And as to "why is it not murder to "delete" a fetus, but murder to "delete" the life of the very same creature when it has exited the womb"" ....because one has to be born to be a person. It is illegal to murder a person. No matter what anyone's opinion is, that is the law. A fetus cannot be a person with rights since that would interfere with the woman's rights.
Learning a new language is good for you. I have made my point very clear; abortion is morally wrong. Never have i ever said that wonen are "obligated to use birth control". Never! Not even once. All I said was that an individual who wants sex, but who does not want children should use birth control. I have also always been very clear in poonting out that men and womyn carry equal responsibility on this matter and have never said it is solely and only about women. What one considers a "life" is dependent on culture. Laws change over time and vary from place to placee. Just because something is in the law book, it does not mean that thing is correct or morally good. You are way too obsessed with juridics and it is not only ridiculous, but also is it ignorant. The law used to say women cannot have abortions. Infact it used to say women cannot own anything, not even themselves. Does this mean it was a good thing?
Yes, laws change , they get better and have made life better for women, they can now own things and have a right to their own reproduction.. What else would protect women and their rights ? what else would protect women from people who think women should be forced to give birth because they had consensual sex ? People who think sex is only for reproduction ? People who think women's only purpose is to breed and be obedient to men? People who think their morals are the only ones that count ? Those idiots?? People who think they really have a say in women's lives??? Those idiots???? THEY should rule women rather than laws like everyone else has?? Here's another English error: I posted """"""""""And as to your "why is it not murder to "delete" a fetus, but murder to "delete" the life of the very same creature when it has exited the womb"" ....because one has to be born to be a person. It is illegal to murder a person. """"""""" You replied: ""What one considers a "life" is dependent on culture. "" UH, I NEVER mentioned "life" in my statement . I said PERSON. See, "life" and "person" are, in English , TWO different words. In the US, the law, which helps control the bigoted, extremists views, says you have to be born to be a PERSON (with rights). A fetus always has life, it isn't a person until it's born.
Guns! More guns! No. Nope. Oh, you mean people like you? Nope, not them either. Give full freedom to every individual and abolish the law. In the US, the law, which helps control the bigoted, extremists views, says you have to be born to be a PERSON (with rights). A fetus always has life, it isn't a person until it's born.[/QUOTE] Again, I could not care less what some lousy MP's have decided is a person and what is not. What gives them the authority to make such decisions? I believe the US, just like Sweden, have set a limit after which abortions becomes illegal, yes? Why x weeks and not y? Is it suddenly a person after x weeks or what? <Mod Edit- rule 9>
I personally believe a person begins their life when the parents discover that there is a pregnancy. In that the parents or person has a moral choice to make which is after the possibility of contraceptives which do not always work. Women in the USA are spoiled and take to much advantage of the fact they have the option of clinical abortion. In that sense, worldwide, it is a privilege. And also an education in the tolerance of abstinence will work I believe. Foxhastings please carefully read the responses as your replies seem emotionally stimulated.
Yes indeed. Promiscous women must not be permitted abortions. They must live with the consequences of their moral choices. Because clearly, women chose to be promiscous. Bad women, that is. Good women are ladies and keep their legs closed. Men, on the other hand, have no choice. They are at the mercy of uncontrollable urges, poor dears. Castrate them, I say, for their own good, because all that will be left for them is the soul degradation of bad, promiscuous women. Incidentally, statistics show most women who have abortions worldwide are in long term, monogamous relationships - usually married - and already have children. The pregnancy was an accident, quite often caused by the contraceptive pill failing. All it takes is a few days worth of a gastro bug to stop the pill working effectively . Your insistence on labelling women who have abortions as promiscous is as telling as it is erroneous. But I imagine you are quite without moral stain yourself.
