I am not fully opposed to the 2nd Amendment

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Balto, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    10,094
    Likes Received:
    2,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    However it is probably 75-80% that I am opposed to it. I am, in general, opposed to hunting not because I'm a PETA fanatic, but because its simply barbaric. We had to hunt back in the stone ages for food, and to survive, today you see NRA nuts like Ted Nugent posing on Facebook with dead deer and other big game, and the cavemen on Duck Dynasty promoting similar values. I am not opposed to owning one, not two or three or five, but one pistol that shoots one bullet at a time. I am opposed to most rifles, both semi-automatic and automatic.

    Simply put, certain provisions in the 2nd Amendment, like many of the early amendments set by founding fathers, are outdated and were simply meant to exist for that time period. What worked in 1800 isn't going to necessarily work in 2017. People who know me know I am a staunch supporter of universal background checks, both on a criminal and mental level, as well as gun confiscation for rifles that are suited only for military usage overseas, and not to be owned by ordinary civilians, as well as a registry of guns for both commercial and private sales, and banning sales of guns at gun shows, so they cannot be the same as sales at a auto show. I am also opposed to open carry on college and school grounds.

    I am not fully opposed to the 2nd Amendment, but there are certainly some big potholes that need filled.
     
  2. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2014
    Messages:
    9,126
    Likes Received:
    4,696
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So, find an island of vegan pacifists and move there. Look in the Pacifist Ocean.

    I just enjoyed a t--bone steak (medium) and I'm not going to give it up. I'm also not giving up my guns.
     
  3. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,214
    Likes Received:
    1,584
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I am not fully opposed to the first amendment but am 75% to 85% opposed to it. Does everyone really need freedom of the press I mean when the constitution was made things where not how they are today. Our for fathers never imagined the internet and everyone having a voice like today. What worked in the 1800 does not work today. Sorry can't go on any longer do you see how stupid my post is? Go you get where I am going with this.
     
  4. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And how, pray tell, was this entirely arbitrary figure arrived at?

    Barbaric compared to what?

    Hunting game is not simply about gathering food. It is also about managing the population size of various species, in order to prevent overpopulation, which leads to significant problems. Overpopulation leads to overcrowding, animals venturing out of their territories in search of food because nature cannot support them, encounters with humans that put others at risk, and eventually death by starvation and exposure.

    So, again, barbaric compared to what?

    You are aware that there are individuals who live in remote areas far removed from modern societal conveniences, who cannot simply go out to the market and buy however much food they may need, correct?

    Pray tell why are you opposed to rifles?

    Time after time, case after case, the united states supreme court has said that this argument is incorrect. They have continually held that constitutional protections apply to modern technology, not simply what was only in existence at the time of the ratification of the united states constitution. It is for this reason, and this reason alone, that the fifth amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures prevents police officers from grabbing you on the street to search through your cellular phone without a warrant, without cause, and without reason.

    Which has been demonstrated as being completely unenforceable without corresponding universal registration of every firearm in existence.

    Which would be firearms classified as machine guns, which are already strictly regulated on the federal and state level.

    The nation of Canada attempted such pertaining to commonly available long arms. They found the concept to not only be unenforceable, but also complete waste of funding, and the registry was not useful in solving even one single firearm-related crime. They did not even have one tenth of the number of firearms to contend with that the united states does, and they still could not manage it.

    For what purpose? Where is the evidence that those who are in legal possession of firearms on school grounds are responsible for any criminal activity?

    So far you are opposed to hunting, which was not even relevant to either Heller or McDonald, you are also opposed to the ownership of any firearm that is not a handgun, as well as the legal carrying of firearms outside of the home.

    You claim that you are not opposed to the second amendment. But it is difficult to conclude just what you are not actually opposed to.
     
  5. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, there goes the internet you are using. Just not 1800 enough.
     
  6. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    10,094
    Likes Received:
    2,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1. I got that figure from weighing how opposed, and how not opposed I am to the 2nd Amendment.

    2. If you have to kill for self-pleasure (which, in other words, is what hunting is), there is something mentally wrong with you. Someone who tortures dogs is eventually going to end up torturing humans. Someone who kills large game for no justified reason, is going to end up killing humans for no justified reason. It's simply how humans are programmed. That dopamine fix one gets from taking the life away from basically, legalized killing, is what causes a hunter to turn into a serial killer. The flaw in your overpopulation argument is that it could be applied to the fact earth is becoming overpopulated, reaching or exceeding 9 billion now, in people inhabiting it. Does this mean we should hunt living human flesh in order to keep the population in order? Mind you, this is coming from someone who thinks sharks and alligators should be extinct, so don't think I'm some animal rights freak. It is barbaric because its quite frankly legalized murder.

    3. Yes, but even the most rural areas of America, living in the middle of nowhere in West Virginia, Wyoming, Montana or North Dakota, there is a mom and pop shop. You would be talking more about a area like in Africa, or in the Amazon Rain Forest where there are still tribes of nomads. The exception to that would probably be if you lived in the Yukon Peninsula or Siberia.

    4. Having a gun on school grounds, especially if it is elementary school grounds, is hazardous for the sole reason kids can get access to it, and cause lots of accidents with those guns. Its why open carry should not be allowed wherever there is a large portion of people, such as fairgrounds, concerts, auditoriums, malls, etc. You may reduce the amount of causalities on campus by having staff and students armed, but it is not to say mass shootings like Virginia Tech can't happen again, just because more people have a gun in their desk or on their thighs.

    5. I never meant to bring up Heller or McDonald, but if there are hints of either cases in the OP, then it is by coincidence.

    6. Guns are designed for self-protection reasons only, and really should not be able to hold more than 10 rounds at most. Need we have to go into what rifles James Holmes used why one should be opposed to rifles. Also, what type of gun did Oswald use to assassinate Kennedy? A rifle. What rifle specifically I could not tell you without having to look it up. No one needs a rifle for self-protection.
     
  7. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    10,094
    Likes Received:
    2,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Please, do not post stupidity in a thread of reason. It may help your post count, but nothing else.
     
  8. EggKiller

    EggKiller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    6,650
    Likes Received:
    483
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I once was a hunter. No longer am, personal choice.
    Before anyone considers hunting barbaric they should work a few shifts in a slaughterhouse.
     
  9. Pardy

    Pardy Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    10,437
    Likes Received:
    166
    Trophy Points:
    63

    Sorry, ,but we're gonna grab your guns.
     
  10. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    66,437
    Likes Received:
    46,356
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Anything else in the Bill of Rights you're 75-80% opposed to? Freedom of speech maybe? Illegal searches and seizures?

    Just one other question.

    Do you eat meat?
     
  11. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    10,094
    Likes Received:
    2,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's just a scare tactic used on the right, pertaining to universal background checks.

    Stop inserting paranoia into people that deals with common sense measures.

    No, but it is a personal choice over a ethical choice. I do eat fish though, but sushi is much healthier than steak. The Japanese must be doing something right that the Americans are getting wrong when it comes to diet.

    I honor the freedom of speech. As stupid as Fox News in nature is, or the ideas Trump Supporters believe in are, they can still make fools out of themselves. Illegal search and seizure is quite honestly not too far from including deportations overnight. By having ICE rip immigrants out of homes at midnight, its on the brink of invalidating the fifth amendment.
     
  12. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    66,437
    Likes Received:
    46,356
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How is fishing less barbaric than hunting?

    Also, non-citizens do not have the right to be here, so ascribing that to an infraction on their "rights" is a misnomer.
     
  13. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2014
    Messages:
    9,126
    Likes Received:
    4,696
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I have no idea what that sentence means. Some anonymous stranger who disagrees with me is not going to "insert paranoia" into anybody. I have served in the US military and raised 3 sons without your help. I think I have demonstrated common sense to those whose opinions matter to me.


    I enjoy Japanese steak houses also.

    Illegal aliens need to be ripped out of whatever structure in which they are hiding with the same notice they gave us before sneaking over our border. I've lost 3 friends to the illegal actions of illegal aliens. Screw them. Yank them out of our schools and send them to wherever they come from. Give their parents a chance to accompany them. I don't want to be blamed for breaking up a family.
     
  14. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    29,951
    Likes Received:
    20,045
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    as long as there are people who want to force other people to do something against their will, people must remain armed.

    and people who want to confiscate firearms from honest americans are a good reason why honest americans need to be well armed.

    your post demonstrates that in your haste to hate firearms and gun owners, you have neglected to learn much about the subject because your argument is full of factually incorrect nonsense

    you also have no clue what a semi automatic is

    - - - Updated - - -

    and the Trump government can impose electric shock torture on him since the founders had no idea of such a punishment. mind altering drugs as well. after all, the only punishments that could be banned as cruel and unusual would be stuff that was known about in that day.
     
  15. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    29,951
    Likes Received:
    20,045
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    we will laugh about what the results are when you try to do that. I am sure it will be a contender for the Darwin awards. It will be on the page next to the guy who tried to spay a lioness using only a boy scout knife
     
  16. therooster

    therooster Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Messages:
    13,004
    Likes Received:
    5,494
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't understand what your trying to get at. Does it matter what your against or for? I can't see how!
     
  17. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A deserved response to the OP stupidity.
     
  18. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    6,911
    Likes Received:
    282
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Wow, you are seriously delusional. People who kill large game will eventually kill humans. EVIDENCE PLEASE. You believing this crap means YOU shouldn't have guns.

    You're the ilk the founders decided we needed the BoR's to shackle.
     
  19. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Likes Received:
    4,346
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    In terms of rifles, all rifles (semi-automatic, single shot, bolt action, pump, lever-action) were responsible for less than 2% of gun murders (and an even lower percentage of overall murders). Automatic rifles are restricted so heavily that unless you are rich (able to spend $10,000+ on a single gun) you can't get one. Of the legal automatic rifles, there have only been a handful of crimes since 1934 (when they were restricted), and a few of those were by police officers using their duty automatics to commit armed robberies.

    Hunting is the only reason that deer and a lot of other animals aren't simply being poisoned. Deer cause a lot of damage to cars ($4 billion a year annually, and 200 human deaths a year) and to crops (about the same monetarily). If deer weren't worth something to hunt, they would be exterminated like rats. I don't know if you've ever seen an animal poisoned (a deranged neighbor poisoned one of my dogs, and we watched it die, as we were trying to take it to the vet), but it is extremely cruel compared to a gunshot. Without hunting, that's what would happen. If you don't want to do it, don't, but please leave those who would like to hunt to do so.

    I guess you think the First amendment's freedom of the press shouldn't apply to anything but hand-powered printing presses also.

    Again, you show your ignorance of the issues. The laws for selling/buying guns at gun shows are EXACTLY the same as the laws for selling/buying guns anywhere else in the U.S. Gun dealers at gun shows have to perform the same background checks that they do at their brick and mortar stores.

    And you are wrong about that, as you are about most things. you don't learn much in your parent's basement....
     
  20. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Likes Received:
    4,346
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Actually, most don't. Back in neolithic times, I knew boys who bragged about the tortures they did to animals. They are all now over 50 years old, and haven't heard about them torturing humans. The equation doesn't work that way. Yes, torturing animals is a warning sign, but most people who do it don't become serial killers. Or in other words, most serial killers did torture animals as youths, but not all people who torture animals as youths become serial killers.

    Also, hunting is a natural instinct in humanity--our closest relatives, the chimpanzees love to hunt as well. IMHO, we have more serial killers now than we used to, not because we have more hunting now, but because we have less. Repressing natural instincts too much leads to disorder.

    But it doesn't. It's the other way around. Most serial killers I've heard of and read about have been urban/suburban folks who didn't hunt. Maybe if they had gotten that dopamine fix while hunting, they wouldn't have killed people.

    If you think sharks and alligators should be extinct, you have absolutely no sense of the living world, and honestly, you scare me.

    Virginia Tech would have been stopped by a single person with a gun. I do agree that open carry isn't wise in most situations. Concealed carry is optimal for self-defense.

    Any weapons that is well suited for offense is well suited for self protection. It's the other side of the coin. Any feature that you deem dangerous in the hands of a mass shooter is a good feature to have in self-defense.

    In terms of rifles, here are the stats:
    https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2011-2015.xls

    In 2015 (last year full data is available for), rifles (all types) were used for 252 out of 9616 gun murders (13,455 total murders). I'll do the math for you. That's 2.62% of gun murders (1.87% of all murders). In comparison, knives were used in 1544 murders, and hands/body in 624 murders. Rifles aren't that dangerous in the overall scheme of things.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well, the last 20 years or so, you haven't succeeded very well at that... Outside of a few states, guns are actually easier to get and less restricted than they were 20 years ago.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Japanese love beef as well......
     
  21. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Messages:
    47,848
    Likes Received:
    19,638
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The 2nd Amendment is there, and it means something you do not want it to mean.
    Until repealed, it remains in effect, and you don't get to ignore it.
     
  22. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    10,094
    Likes Received:
    2,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Given most of what you post here is ignorant and deprived of logic, I think you should be eating your own words.

    I have shot off a gun, its been a handgun, but I actually have pulled the trigger on what could go through a guys chest, and out their back. I've smelled that gun powder NRA leeches and gun enthusiasts love to smell, and quite frankly, I have not gotten the dopamine rush one gets exerting a bullet at 90 mph. And yes, I know what a semi-automatic is.
     
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wow, thanks for more drivel. You are projecting.
     
  24. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    10,094
    Likes Received:
    2,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The right has used the tag line for years on gun control, as well as the NRA, in campaigning that we're "coming to get your guns." No, we're not, and we never were.
     
  25. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    11,696
    Likes Received:
    2,019
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That 75 to 80% stuff you're talking about, I'd really put that into the 99% category. You're effectively a total anti-gunner, you're just lying to yourself by saying otherwise. But that's what libs do.
     

Share This Page