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Thread: Part 35 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

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    Quote Originally Posted by trevorw2539
    The Babylon Talmud 43a talks about sorcery, not miracles. There were many sorcerers around. Acts 8.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Wyrd of Gawd View Post
    Whatever happened to socerers? They used to be as common as dirt but now they seem to have disappeared. I need one to whip me up 100 tons of gold.
    They were eaten by dinosaurs. The spirits of the sorcerers then buried the dinosaurs deep in the ground so they could not be found for thousands of years.

    I thought everyone knew that.


    ETA: Ooops, just saw your post #27.
    Last edited by ecco; Jan 11 2017 at 06:50 AM.

  2. Likes Margot2 liked this post
  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitt Ryan View Post
    Tagline:
    "I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details." ---- Albert Einstein

    More from Mitt Ryan

    Well as brilliant of a mind that Einstein had as a theoretical physicist it's baffling that he failed to understand the motives of God. This failure was the result of his incorrect assumption that God intended this universe as His ultimate perfect creation. Einstein could not get past the moral problems that are present in our universe.

    He assumed, as most atheists do, that a personal God would only create a universe which is both good morally and perfect physically. However, according to Christianity, the purpose of the universe is not to be morally or physically perfect, but to provide a place where spiritual creatures can choose to love or reject God - to live with Him forever in a new, perfect universe, or reject Him and live apart from Him for all eternity.

    It would not be possible to make this choice in a universe in which all moral choices are restricted to only good ones. Einstein didn't seem to understand that one could not choose between good and bad if bad did not exist. Again like I already mentioned it's amazingly baffling that such a brilliant man could not understand such a simple logical principle.

    No, Albert Einstein was not a Christian or even a theist (one who believes in a personal God), probably because he failed to understand why evil existed. These days, those who fail to understand the purpose of evil not only reject the concept of a personal God, but also reject the concept of God's existence altogether.

    Einstein did not disbelieve Christianity because of what you imagine he believed. He disbelieved God and Christianity because he thought it was silly and childish.


    http://www.christianitytoday.com/gle...-childish.html
    Einstein penned the letter on January 3 1954 to the philosopher Eric Gutkind who had sent him a copy of his book Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt.

    In the letter, he states:
    "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
    Last edited by ecco; Jan 11 2017 at 07:11 AM.

  4. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Margot2 View Post
    You may want to check the dating of the Babylonian Talmud...
    Jesus was gone a couple hundred years. How could they have witnessed Jesus
    miracles?
    Who said "witness"? It's a non Christian document that records the miracles of
    Jesus. Just as I said.
    We should all be grateful that Bill Clinton's wife will never become president.

  5. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by trevorw2539 View Post
    The Babylon Talmud 43a talks about sorcery, not miracles. There were many sorcerers
    around. Acts 8.
    As did the Jewish leadership in the NT. In reality they were miracles.
    We should all be grateful that Bill Clinton's wife will never become president.

  6. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecco View Post
    Please name one "reliable Gospel eyewitness" who wrote an account of
    anything Jesus did.
    Matthew, Mark and John. They were there and they are very reliable witnesses.

    Provide evidence that they weren't.
    We should all be grateful that Bill Clinton's wife will never become president.

  7. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by by [B
    Prunepicker[/B]]

    Non Christian evidence of Jesus.
    http://coldcasechristianity.com/2014...ide-the-bible/

    Jesus was the Messiah, as the OT has shown us.

    The writers of the Gospels were Jews so yes a Jew would say that.

    Wrong. You are taking the Bible out of context. I've pointed this out several times and you
    still ignore the evidence. There are no contradictions or misunderstandings, either.

    You on the other hand claimed to have taken religion courses. I've busted this myth by
    exposing your "word for word" cut and paste in you previous posts that you claim to
    be from your notes. The misunderstandings of the Bible so far have been yours, which
    are evident in every post you make.

    I'm going to have to continue showing you and the posters the errors of your ways.


    Quote Originally Posted by trevorw2539 View Post
    Great answer (roll eyes) Since you can't defend yourself this is a way of conceding that
    I'm right. I accept your concession
    We should all be grateful that Bill Clinton's wife will never become president.

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Prunepicker View Post
    Great answer (roll eyes) Since you can't defend yourself this is a way of conceding that
    I'm right. I accept your concession
    Another 5 brownie points for your blouse.

    And don't bother to reply. I'm having an intelligent discussion on another site with someone who knows the Bible and its background history, which unfortunately I can't say about you.
    Last edited by trevorw2539; Jan 11 2017 at 09:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecco View Post
    Well, let's see. Here is a paragraph from your very own link...
    The New Testament authors repeatedly referred to themselves as eyewitnesses, even if they did not make overt statements including their names.

    Yet the author of the article gives no examples of the authors ever referring to themselves as eyewitnesses.

    In the last chapter of Johnís Gospel, the author tells us he is testifying and his testimony is true. Language such as this presumes the author has seen something he can describe as eyewitness testimony.

    John testifies and claims his testimony is true and therefore we should presume it's an eyewitness account?

    The author of the article then more honestly states...
    While Luke clearly states he is not an eyewitness


    You cut and paste from a religious site that clearly does not support your position with anything resembling evidence.

    Perhaps, instead of cutting and pasting from a religious site, you could cut and paste a passage from the gospels where the authors referred to themselves as eyewitnesses.
    True enough. I believe that the information in the synoptic gospels and the gospel of John contain enough details that people living in the timeframe of their writing would have raised objections to any unsubstantiated claims.

    Please indulge me quoting from a book I just finished reading by Timothy Keller entitled The Reason for God:

    The canonical gospels were written at the very most forty to sixty years after Jesus's death. Paul's letters, written just fifteen to twenty-five years after the death of Jesus, provide an outline of all the events of Jesus's life found in the gospels -- his miracles, claims, crucifixion, and resurrection. This means that the Biblical accounts of Jesus's life were circulating within the lifetimes of hundreds who had been present at the events of his ministry. The gospel author Luke claims that he got his account of Jesus's life from eyewitnesses who were still alive (Luke 1:1-4).

    In his landmark book Jesus and the Eyewitnesses, Richard Bauckham marshals much historical evidence to demonstrate that at the time the gospels were written there were still numerous well-known living eyewitnesses to Jesus's teaching and life events. They had committed them to memory and they remained active in the public life of the churches throughout their lifetimes, serving as ongoing sources and guarantors of the truth of those accounts. Bauckham uses evidence within the gospels themselves to show that the gospel writers named their eyewitness sources within the text to assure readers of their accounts' authenticity.

    Mark, for example, says that the man who helped Jesus carry his cross to Calvary "was the father of Alexander and Rufus" (Mark 15:21). There is no reason for the author to include such names unless the readers know or could have access to them. Mark is saying, "Alexander and Rufus vouch for the truth of what I am telling you, if you want to ask them." Paul also appeals to readers to check with living eyewitnesses if they want to establish the truth of what he is saying about the events of Jesus's life (1 Corinthians 15:1-6). Paul refers to a body of five hundred eyewitnesses who saw the risen Christ at once. You can't write that in a document designed for public reading unless there really were surviving witnesses whose testimony agreed and who could confirm what the author said. All this decisively refutes the idea that the gospels were anonymous, collective, evolving oral traditions. Instead they were oral histories taken down from the mouths of the living eyewitnesses who preserved the words and deeds of Jesus in great detail.
    He continues on with a discussion of the selection of the canonical gospels from among a number of different writings, saying

    The gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, however, were recognized as authoritative eyewitness accounts almost immediately, and so we have Irenaeus of Lyons in 160 A.D. declaring that there were four, and only four, gospels.
    I think Keller makes a compelling case. Nevertheless, Bauckham's book is now on my reading list...

    Man is by nature a political animal. -Aristotle

    The most sacred of the duties of government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens. -Thomas Jefferson

    I place economy among the first and most important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. -Thomas Jefferson

  10. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wyrd of Gawd View Post
    That's an interesting way to look at it. If the word "sorcerer" really meant that the person was a swindler then maybe the word "prophet" really meant that the person was a liar. That helps to explain a lot of the biblical and Koran stories.

    If a Saudi takes money claiming he/she can cure a sick person, he/she is a sorcerer/swindler because he/she has kept them from getting traditional medical care.
    Fate says to the warrior, "You cannot withstand the storm".

    The warrior answers back, "I am the storm".

  11. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Prunepicker View Post
    Who said "witness"? It's a non Christian document that records the miracles of
    Jesus. Just as I said.
    The Babylonian Talmud also says that Adam had sex with all of the animals and that Jesus had a donkey girlfriend.

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